The Murphy Builders Site

I am ready to put fuel outlet [w-160] and visible fuel guage [w-159]
fittings onto the wing root rib. My question is how much of the flange on
these parts can be removed to get them to fit closer to the rib flange? I
know that the more I take off the less unusable fuel will be in the tank , I
don't know how much is too much and the directions are quite vague on this.
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"Snader, Douglas E." wrote:

I am ready to put fuel outlet [w-160] and visible fuel guage [w-159]
fittings onto the wing root rib. My question is how much of the flange on
these parts can be removed

Hi Doug,

You might want to go to:

http://beta.communities.msn.com/NWRebel ... lAircraft/

Click on "photo album", then click on "Terry's Pics".

There are a several detail photos of the "Wing Aft Fuel Fitting" and "Wing Fwd Sight
Gage Fittings" that might help you. The explanation that accompanies the photo will
describe the process in general, but the photos tell all.

Hope this helps.

Good luck and good building.

Terry Dazey
R662



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Your following message has been delivered to the 161 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 17:27:54 on 23 Oct 2000.
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Doug, trim as much as you can and just leave the round "bushing" area. This
will get you down as low as possible on your main outlet. On the sight gauge
one you don't have to get quite as low, as you better not be wanting to see
the fuel that low in flight anyhow!!! Also trim your upper fitting for the
sight gauge and cross vent so it is as close to the top forward corner as
possible. I have seen some that were installed about 7 inches aft of the
main spar and this allows fuel to feed side to side when you are trying to
fill the tanks.

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Snader, Douglas E." <snaderde@tvfr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:50 PM
Subject: fuel outlet fitting flange

I am ready to put fuel outlet [w-160] and visible fuel guage [w-159]
fittings onto the wing root rib. My question is how much of the flange on
these parts can be removed to get them to fit closer to the rib flange? I
know that the more I take off the less unusable fuel will be in the tank ,

I

don't know how much is too much and the directions are quite vague on

this.
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To the group...... Does it bother anyone else to look up and see that
clear fuel line in the cockpit with you ?? I guess I am a bit of a
wussy...but I have never liked the idea of running fuel in there with my
bare tender skin....( at least it should be a steel line if I have to travel
with it..... )

I suppose it comes from the fact that in my area ( well yours too in BC, I
guess ) we are taught to "aim between the tree trunks" as ripping the wings
off in a "off airport" landing will slow you down a bit before you descend
through those pine trees...(compared to smacking head first! )

opinions ?? ; )

Louis Young

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Dazey [mailto:dazey@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 5:20 PM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: fuel outlet fitting flange




"Snader, Douglas E." wrote:

I am ready to put fuel outlet [w-160] and visible fuel

guage [w-159]

fittings onto the wing root rib. My question is how much of the

flange on

these parts can be removed

Hi Doug,

You might want to go to:

http://beta.communities.msn.com/NWRebel ... lAircraft/

Click on "photo album", then click on "Terry's Pics".

There are a several detail photos of the "Wing Aft Fuel Fitting"
and "Wing Fwd Sight
Gage Fittings" that might help you. The explanation that
accompanies the photo will
describe the process in general, but the photos tell all.

Hope this helps.

Good luck and good building.

Terry Dazey
R662



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Bob I've had to change my sight guage lines twice already. With low tanks
you can drain one tank into the other by jacking up one side of the plane
and letting the fuel crossfeed into the other tank. I check these lines
regularly by pinching them to make sure they're still soft because once
they harden they become very brittle and can crack easily.
Fly safe Drew

At 09:15 PM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Doug !

Don't worry too much about trimming the fittings - just take
enough off the bottom so you're comfortable with the seal.

You can drain ALL of the fuel out of the tank in flight IF
you fly with the other wing low - I know, 'cause I've done it !!

Why ?? You ask .... To empty the tank so I could change
the sight guage tubing, which had turned brown because of bad fuel !

For peace of mind (and convenience) I would strongly suggest
you add a small shutoff valve to the BOTTOM outlet of the fuel
guage tubes ! This will allow you to change the tubing easily,
AND avoid an unpleasant bath, should the tubing crack & leak ....
(THIS has ALSO happened to me .... :-( )

The fuel valves for the Renegade can be ordered from MAM,
and are tiny things that don't take much space. Don't worry if this
means the fuel guage tubing is a smaller diameter - it's not that
important, as there's no great flowthrough.

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 01:50 PM 10/23/00 -0700, you wrote:

I am ready to put fuel outlet [w-160] and visible fuel guage [w-159]
fittings onto the wing root rib. My question is how much of the flange on
these parts can be removed to get them to fit closer to the rib flange? I
know that the more I take off the less unusable fuel will be in the tank , I
don't know how much is too much and the directions are quite vague on this.
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Archives located at:
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Hi Doug !

Don't worry too much about trimming the fittings - just take
enough off the bottom so you're comfortable with the seal.

You can drain ALL of the fuel out of the tank in flight IF
you fly with the other wing low - I know, 'cause I've done it !!

Why ?? You ask .... To empty the tank so I could change
the sight guage tubing, which had turned brown because of bad fuel !

For peace of mind (and convenience) I would strongly suggest
you add a small shutoff valve to the BOTTOM outlet of the fuel
guage tubes ! This will allow you to change the tubing easily,
AND avoid an unpleasant bath, should the tubing crack & leak ....
(THIS has ALSO happened to me .... :-( )

The fuel valves for the Renegade can be ordered from MAM,
and are tiny things that don't take much space. Don't worry if this
means the fuel guage tubing is a smaller diameter - it's not that
important, as there's no great flowthrough.

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 01:50 PM 10/23/00 -0700, you wrote:

I am ready to put fuel outlet [w-160] and visible fuel guage [w-159]
fittings onto the wing root rib. My question is how much of the flange on
these parts can be removed to get them to fit closer to the rib flange? I
know that the more I take off the less unusable fuel will be in the tank , I
don't know how much is too much and the directions are quite vague on this.
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

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Your following message has been delivered to the 161 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 22:10:08 on 23 Oct 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you are uneasy with the "piper cub" style site gauges, you <can> install
float or capacitive senders in the tanks! I have installed both and prefer
the Stewart Warner float senders for simplicity, dependability and easier
installation.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis & Kathy Young" <louis@c-gate.net>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: fuel outlet fitting flange

To the group...... Does it bother anyone else to look up and see that
clear fuel line in the cockpit with you ?? I guess I am a bit of a
wussy...but I have never liked the idea of running fuel in there with my
bare tender skin....( at least it should be a steel line if I have to

travel

with it..... )

I suppose it comes from the fact that in my area ( well yours too in BC, I
guess ) we are taught to "aim between the tree trunks" as ripping the

wings

off in a "off airport" landing will slow you down a bit before you descend
through those pine trees...(compared to smacking head first! )

opinions ?? ; )

Louis Young

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Dazey [mailto:dazey@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 5:20 PM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: fuel outlet fitting flange




"Snader, Douglas E." wrote:

I am ready to put fuel outlet [w-160] and visible fuel

guage [w-159]

fittings onto the wing root rib. My question is how much of the

flange on

these parts can be removed

Hi Doug,

You might want to go to:

http://beta.communities.msn.com/NWRebel ... lAircraft/

Click on "photo album", then click on "Terry's Pics".

There are a several detail photos of the "Wing Aft Fuel Fitting"
and "Wing Fwd Sight
Gage Fittings" that might help you. The explanation that
accompanies the photo will
describe the process in general, but the photos tell all.

Hope this helps.

Good luck and good building.

Terry Dazey
R662



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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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I would also prefer something other than the sight tube.

Wayne, do you have a part # or catalog source for the Stewart Warner sending
unit?

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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Your following message has been delivered to the 161 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 13:16:20 on 24 Oct 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Roger and All,

The sender/gauge system is nice as it gets the fuel out of the cabin (other
than the cross vent and main fuel lines that can be all made of aluminum
from tanks to gascolator). The set back (especially if you are running wheel
pants like I do in the summer), is that without a ladder you can not dip the
tanks to be sure how much fuel you have. I never fly <ANY> aircraft
depending on the fuel gauges, of any type. I always dip the tanks with my
calibrated stick prior to flight and know where that should get me to. The
gauges are only a reference to a sudden loss of fuel (or a broken wire). The
cabin root sight gauges give you a quick and fairly accurate (the old way,
tee'd to the main outlet setup does read low during times of high fuel flow,
as air gets sucked down the sight gauge creating a light vacuum and can
cause an airlock) indication of how much fuel you have left at any given
time and this is a bonus when filling that aircraft to a certain level for
weight considerations. As one person fills, the other says when to quit by
watching the tube! They do get in the way though, if you try to install the
factory headliner! So both methods have pros and cons.

I will go look up the sender numbers and post to the list. They are
available at most automotive supply houses! I have a good shot of the
mounting position (and float arm bend shape) in an SR2500 wing and if anyone
is interested just send me a request.

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger & Alice Hoffman" <rognal@continet.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 10:52 AM
Subject: Fuel outlet fitting flange

I would also prefer something other than the sight tube.

Wayne, do you have a part # or catalog source for the Stewart Warner

sending

unit?

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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Hi Drew !

I've tried switching to a blue-tinted plastic line that is
supposedly "specifically for fuel" - after a year, and a bad tank of
gas, it too has started to turn brown !! I seem to get at least one
bad tankful every year, in my travels around the countries !!!!

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 09:09 PM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote:

Bob I've had to change my sight guage lines twice already. With low tanks
you can drain one tank into the other by jacking up one side of the plane
and letting the fuel crossfeed into the other tank. I check these lines
regularly by pinching them to make sure they're still soft because once
they harden they become very brittle and can crack easily.
Fly safe Drew

At 09:15 PM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Doug !

Don't worry too much about trimming the fittings - just take
enough off the bottom so you're comfortable with the seal.

You can drain ALL of the fuel out of the tank in flight IF
you fly with the other wing low - I know, 'cause I've done it !!

Why ?? You ask .... To empty the tank so I could change
the sight guage tubing, which had turned brown because of bad fuel !

For peace of mind (and convenience) I would strongly suggest
you add a small shutoff valve to the BOTTOM outlet of the fuel
guage tubes ! This will allow you to change the tubing easily,
AND avoid an unpleasant bath, should the tubing crack & leak ....
(THIS has ALSO happened to me .... :-( )

The fuel valves for the Renegade can be ordered from MAM,
and are tiny things that don't take much space. Don't worry if this
means the fuel guage tubing is a smaller diameter - it's not that
important, as there's no great flowthrough.

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 01:50 PM 10/23/00 -0700, you wrote:

I am ready to put fuel outlet [w-160] and visible fuel guage [w-159]
fittings onto the wing root rib. My question is how much of the flange on
these parts can be removed to get them to fit closer to the rib flange? I
know that the more I take off the less unusable fuel will be in the tank , I
don't know how much is too much and the directions are quite vague on this.
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
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Archives located at:
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Hi There

I understand your concern about fuel lines in the cockpit. This is a very
valid concern.

My point of view is that there is nothing more accurate than a properly
calibrated sight gauge fuel system. One of the prime reasons that small
aircraft come out of the sky at the wrong times is fuel exhaustion. If you
are staring at your expensive electric fuel gauges and wondering are the
tanks really that empty? or whatever, a pilot good make a bad decision
which could result in running out of fuel. The only upside then is that if
you have to come down and put it between the trees to rip the wings off and
slow you down, you will not have to worry about fuel being spilled in the
cockpit...but wait, you should ran out of gas anyway!!

Something to think about.

I got myself into a situation recently flying into Indianapolis where
headwinds were in the 25+ knot range and could not get fuel on the Sunday
evening. My fuel level was low, but the tanks were METICULOUSLY calibrated.
I continued the flight to the final destination without incident and
verified my usuable fuel the next day upon fill up. I would never dream of
trying that with expensive electrical stuff giving me fuel info. I could
have stopped earlier, but, I did not need to. In other situations, you may
fewer options.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Louis & Kathy Young [mailto:louis@c-gate.net]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 8:48 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: RE: fuel outlet fitting flange



To the group...... Does it bother anyone else to look up and see that
clear fuel line in the cockpit with you ?? I guess I am a bit of a
wussy...but I have never liked the idea of running fuel in there with my
bare tender skin....( at least it should be a steel line if I have to travel
with it..... )

I suppose it comes from the fact that in my area ( well yours too in BC, I
guess ) we are taught to "aim between the tree trunks" as ripping the wings
off in a "off airport" landing will slow you down a bit before you descend
through those pine trees...(compared to smacking head first! )

opinions ?? ; )

Louis Young

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Dazey [mailto:dazey@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 5:20 PM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: fuel outlet fitting flange




"Snader, Douglas E." wrote:

I am ready to put fuel outlet [w-160] and visible fuel

guage [w-159]

fittings onto the wing root rib. My question is how much of the

flange on

these parts can be removed

Hi Doug,

You might want to go to:

http://beta.communities.msn.com/NWRebel ... lAircraft/

Click on "photo album", then click on "Terry's Pics".

There are a several detail photos of the "Wing Aft Fuel Fitting"
and "Wing Fwd Sight
Gage Fittings" that might help you. The explanation that
accompanies the photo will
describe the process in general, but the photos tell all.

Hope this helps.

Good luck and good building.

Terry Dazey
R662



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Hi Louis,
Yes that bothered me also, so I installed a pair of capasitance gages.
Would I do it as an after thought? No, I think it would be to hard to get the
right bend in the tubing for it to work ok, but I do know it has been done.
It is nnstalled through the wing root. I was able to set mine up so that when
the gage reads empty I have 2.5 gal left in the tank. ( I get bothered when
it gets below 1/4 anyway)
The firefighter in me just wasn't comfortable with the flex tube full of
gas. I have seen a sight gage that the composite builders use that is a solid
material, but you still have to attach it somehow. Just be sure that the
material is fuel resistant. MY .02
Curt N97MR
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