Flight test area
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:21 pm
Thanks for your input Eric. Here's what I wrote to the FSDO person that I
talked to today. I'll see what he says in person early next week when I go
over to (hopefully) pick up my repairman's certificate:
"When I visit the FSDO, I would sincerely appreciate discussing my operating
limitations fly-off geographic area, which Robert limited to a 20 nm radius.
As I explained to Robert, with the populated areas to the West and Class-B
to the South, and given my anticipated 110 knot cruise speed, this is not a
sufficient distance/time (10 minutes flight time for 20 nm) to establish a
stable flight attitude, record initial flight parameters, fly a designated
flight test profile (e.g. cruise, climb, glide), record ending flight
parameters and yet remain within the designated area. I will show you my
flight test plans/cards during our visit. Rather than the 20 nm as
currently stated, I seek an area bounded by lines drawn from Platte Valley
airport (where I'm based)-Greeley Airport--Gill VOR-Fort Morgan
airport-HOYTT intersection-back to Platte Valley. I certainly don't want to
step on anyone's toes here-rather I humbly seek a more reasonable test area
that is entirely over largely unpopulated land."
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Fogelin
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Getting my repairman's certificate: FAA hassle
Sorry to hear about the continued hassles with the FAA and DAR.
This is test area request that I asked for and received from the Seattle FAA
MIDO inspector. I tried to keep it short and specific. They just copied and
pasted my request into their Program Letter:
===
Request a 35nm radius test area centered on home airport, W10, Whidbey
Airpark. Test area required to reach fuel at airports: 0S9, AWO, S43 and
PAE. Test area also required for water testing of amphibian floats on lakes
such as: Lake Goodwin, Stevens, Cavanaugh and Washington (fuel/maintenance
at Kenmore SPB). Test area also includes salt and fresh water open to
floatplane operations. Testing over densely populated areas prohibited.
===
The normal is 25 miles and 40 hours for an uncertified prop/engine
combination. They gave me 40 hours, which was fine.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Waltman
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 4:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Getting my repairman's certificate: FAA hassle
DAR told me to fax over the 1st page of my Airman Certificate/Rating
Application form and the Eligibility Statement to the FSDO. Then the FAA
guy that my DAR talked to would type up the Repairman's Certificate and have
it ready for me when I came into the FSDO this week-so I don't have to wait
there while they type things in other words.
So I get a call today from the FSDO. A different FAA guy says I have to
bring the following to the FSDO to get my Repairman's Certificate:
- Airworthiness Certificate
- Completed Airman Certificate/Rating Application form
- Aircraft Registration form
- Picture ID
- Pilot's license
- Complete set of pictures of the entire build process
- My builder's construction log (3,901 hours by the way)
- Airframe, propeller and engine log books
- Letter from DAR stating I'm qualified to maintain the aircraft
Then, when I arrive, I have to answer a set of questions to prove to the FAA
guy on duty that I'm qualified to maintain the aircraft! I have no problem
bringing any of the above nor with answering any questions whatsoever of
course. It's just the principle of the matter that the FAA guy is requiring
things that are not per regulation (at least to my knowledge that is).
I told the FAA guy on the phone the above steps, particularly the letter
from the DAR, pictures, log and answer questions are not required by any FAA
regulation. He tells me they are. At this point, I'm ready to tell the guy
to kiss my ass. Instead I call my DAR and he says he'll call the FAA guy
and tell him to kiss his ass!
We'll see what happens now.
Oh, by the way, can you believe that my DAR gave me a 20 mile radius test
area? I've never heard of a test area that small!!!! Lucky me!
Ted Waltman
Moose N384JP
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talked to today. I'll see what he says in person early next week when I go
over to (hopefully) pick up my repairman's certificate:
"When I visit the FSDO, I would sincerely appreciate discussing my operating
limitations fly-off geographic area, which Robert limited to a 20 nm radius.
As I explained to Robert, with the populated areas to the West and Class-B
to the South, and given my anticipated 110 knot cruise speed, this is not a
sufficient distance/time (10 minutes flight time for 20 nm) to establish a
stable flight attitude, record initial flight parameters, fly a designated
flight test profile (e.g. cruise, climb, glide), record ending flight
parameters and yet remain within the designated area. I will show you my
flight test plans/cards during our visit. Rather than the 20 nm as
currently stated, I seek an area bounded by lines drawn from Platte Valley
airport (where I'm based)-Greeley Airport--Gill VOR-Fort Morgan
airport-HOYTT intersection-back to Platte Valley. I certainly don't want to
step on anyone's toes here-rather I humbly seek a more reasonable test area
that is entirely over largely unpopulated land."
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Fogelin
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Getting my repairman's certificate: FAA hassle
Sorry to hear about the continued hassles with the FAA and DAR.
This is test area request that I asked for and received from the Seattle FAA
MIDO inspector. I tried to keep it short and specific. They just copied and
pasted my request into their Program Letter:
===
Request a 35nm radius test area centered on home airport, W10, Whidbey
Airpark. Test area required to reach fuel at airports: 0S9, AWO, S43 and
PAE. Test area also required for water testing of amphibian floats on lakes
such as: Lake Goodwin, Stevens, Cavanaugh and Washington (fuel/maintenance
at Kenmore SPB). Test area also includes salt and fresh water open to
floatplane operations. Testing over densely populated areas prohibited.
===
The normal is 25 miles and 40 hours for an uncertified prop/engine
combination. They gave me 40 hours, which was fine.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Waltman
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 4:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Getting my repairman's certificate: FAA hassle
DAR told me to fax over the 1st page of my Airman Certificate/Rating
Application form and the Eligibility Statement to the FSDO. Then the FAA
guy that my DAR talked to would type up the Repairman's Certificate and have
it ready for me when I came into the FSDO this week-so I don't have to wait
there while they type things in other words.
So I get a call today from the FSDO. A different FAA guy says I have to
bring the following to the FSDO to get my Repairman's Certificate:
- Airworthiness Certificate
- Completed Airman Certificate/Rating Application form
- Aircraft Registration form
- Picture ID
- Pilot's license
- Complete set of pictures of the entire build process
- My builder's construction log (3,901 hours by the way)
- Airframe, propeller and engine log books
- Letter from DAR stating I'm qualified to maintain the aircraft
Then, when I arrive, I have to answer a set of questions to prove to the FAA
guy on duty that I'm qualified to maintain the aircraft! I have no problem
bringing any of the above nor with answering any questions whatsoever of
course. It's just the principle of the matter that the FAA guy is requiring
things that are not per regulation (at least to my knowledge that is).
I told the FAA guy on the phone the above steps, particularly the letter
from the DAR, pictures, log and answer questions are not required by any FAA
regulation. He tells me they are. At this point, I'm ready to tell the guy
to kiss my ass. Instead I call my DAR and he says he'll call the FAA guy
and tell him to kiss his ass!
We'll see what happens now.
Oh, by the way, can you believe that my DAR gave me a 20 mile radius test
area? I've never heard of a test area that small!!!! Lucky me!
Ted Waltman
Moose N384JP
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