The Murphy Builders Site

Welcome Phillion

I purchased a 1992 kit (R119) and would suggest that you should get a
very good price on a kit that old. There are numerous updates you will
likely want to work through and some expense depending on what comes
with it and what you want. Maybe some upgrades are already there??

For example:
Mine came with an upgrade to increase Gross weight from 1500 to 1650 lb
which involves some wing and landing gear updates.

Everyone now uses wet wing fuel tanks instead of those 6 leaky plastic
containers buried in the wing. Not a difficult or expensive upgrade if
the wings are not built.

A formed windshield is now standard instead of flat lexan wrapped around.

I upgraded wheels and brakes (can be pricey) as the originals were more
suited to an ultralight according to the specs on them. Some guys don't
upgrade. Some guys want light airframes for a rotax 912 which is a good
route to follow.

There could be an issue with wing skins requiring a patch or simply
making a new skin using what you have as a template.

A few parts such as corner wraps will be thicker in the new kit. These
are cheap or easy to form yourself.

As long as you think nothing major is missing and you factor in several
thousand dollars of possible upgrades (or decide not to do them) and you
are not in a hurry, you might have a good deal and an excellent starting
point for a project. If you are in a hurry go for a new kit. I might
never have got started if I'd waited to order a new kit but in my case I
neither saved time or money. Love the airplane though.

Ken

K and C Phillion wrote:

Hello All: first of all, my name is Kurt Phillion and I have had a
passion for flying since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I started
taking lessons 20 years ago but soon found that a new wife and family
was my priority (so I was told) now I am reprioratizing my life and
flying is back on top, My question is I have a chance to purchase an
unbuilt kit from 1991 of the rebel, I am hoping to find out if I
would be better off with a newer kit, eg: up dates, out of dates, any
information would be greatly appreciated, thankyou so much, Kurt
Phillion








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At 11:24 AM 14/02/2009 -0800, you wrote:

Hello All: first of all, my name is Kurt Phillion and I have had a passion

for flying since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I started taking lessons
20 years ago but soon found that a new wife and family was my priority (so
I was told) now I am reprioratizing my life and flying is back on top, My
question is I have a chance to purchase an unbuilt kit from 1991 of the
rebel, I am hoping to find out if I would be better off with a newer kit,
eg: up dates, out of dates, any information would be greatly appreciated,
thankyou so much, Kurt Phillion

Hi Kurt and welcome. The rebel kit didn't change much over the years after
the arrival of the 1650lb gross weight model so buying used doesn't mean
that you'll be missing out on any major improvements. There are some beef
up mods that apply to all years check out the archives for Ontario Mods.
Buying an older kit should have a significant cost savings because almost
always there will be parts missing, all the chemicals will be out of date
and garbage, and there may be significant corrossion if the storage was
anything less than perfect. It could easily be that a new kit will end up
cheaper in the long run.
Drew



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Hi I also purchased a 1992 kit and am well on my way to completing it.THe
upgrades that were mention are in fact acurate but you will also need an
upraded firewall as the aluminum is not acceptable.. I simply bought a piece
of thin stainless steel and made an insert. Cost about 70.00. The other
upgrades were not too expensive. The windshield was the bigest cost (575.00)
Although it is not a manditory upgrade. Good luck, Bob

.----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [rebOel-builders] old kt verses new kit

Welcome Phillion

I purchased a 1992 kit (R119) and would suggest that you should get a
very good price on a kit that old. There are numerous updates you will
likely want to work through and some expense depending on what comes
with it and what you want. Maybe some upgrades are already there??

For example:
Mine came with an upgrade to increase Gross weight from 1500 to 1650 lb
which involves some wing and landing gear updates.

Everyone now uses wet wing fuel tanks instead of those 6 leaky plastic
containers buried in the wing. Not a difficult or expensive upgrade if
the wings are not built.

A formed windshield is now standard instead of flat lexan wrapped around.

I upgraded wheels and brakes (can be pricey) as the originals were more
suited to an ultralight according to the specs on them. Some guys don't
upgrade. Some guys want light airframes for a rotax 912 which is a good
route to follow.

There could be an issue with wing skins requiring a patch or simply
making a new skin using what you have as a template.

A few parts such as corner wraps will be thicker in the new kit. These
are cheap or easy to form yourself.

As long as you think nothing major is missing and you factor in several
thousand dollars of possible upgrades (or decide not to do them) and you
are not in a hurry, you might have a good deal and an excellent starting
point for a project. If you are in a hurry go for a new kit. I might
never have got started if I'd waited to order a new kit but in my case I
neither saved time or money. Love the airplane though.

Ken

K and C Phillion wrote:

Hello All: first of all, my name is Kurt Phillion and I have had a
passion for flying since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I started
taking lessons 20 years ago but soon found that a new wife and family
was my priority (so I was told) now I am reprioratizing my life and
flying is back on top, My question is I have a chance to purchase an
unbuilt kit from 1991 of the rebel, I am hoping to find out if I
would be better off with a newer kit, eg: up dates, out of dates, any
information would be greatly appreciated, thankyou so much, Kurt
Phillion








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Kurt,
Welcome to the group! I'm the second owner of mine, feel I got a good deal
on it, and have had no problems. Mine is number 496, new I think in about
1994 or 95, and already was the 1650 kit. Even if you buy a new kit, the
list of "Ontario Mod" items, or re-do's from screwing up, will have you
doing some metal fabrication from sheet stock. Just to keep that in mind,
i.e. that "new" doesn't mean it is a simple Lego set. One other challenge
in a used kit is to be sure it is all there, not to mention partially built
correctly. New inventory probably takes at least a dozen hours, so in a
second-hand purchase, you're not likely to even come close to a complete
check. I got assurance from the guy I bought from that the plane was
always just in the same building (no accidentally left out pieces at
another hangar), plus I benefitted, oddly enf, in that when he got the kit
new from MAM, a fork lift had punched through the crate during shipping.
This resulted in him going through initial inventory twice, to make sure it
was all there and for any damaged parts needing replacement (which
MAM/insurance took care of). See if the original owner has the original
inventory sheets and evidence of him checking it was all there then. (OR
give Bob a call and buy a new one!)
-Ben/ 496R

K and C Phillion wrote:

Hello All: first of all, my name is Kurt Phillion and I have had a
passion for flying since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I started
taking lessons 20 years ago but soon found that a new wife and family
was my priority (so I was told) now I am reprioratizing my life and
flying is back on top, My question is I have a chance to purchase an
unbuilt kit from 1991 of the rebel, I am hoping to find out if I
would be better off with a newer kit, eg: up dates, out of dates, any
information would be greatly appreciated, thankyou so much, Kurt
Phillion

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Kurt,

Welcome to our group. You've made a good choice. My wife and I bought a
kit that was not started also, at a substantial savings. We've been at it
a little over a year now and have some experiences to relate. If you want
to talk, call me at 907-355-6290. Craig Walls

Original Message:
-----------------
From: bransom@dcsol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:07:36 -0900
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] old kt verses new kit


Kurt,
Welcome to the group! I'm the second owner of mine, feel I got a good deal
on it, and have had no problems. Mine is number 496, new I think in about
1994 or 95, and already was the 1650 kit. Even if you buy a new kit, the
list of "Ontario Mod" items, or re-do's from screwing up, will have you
doing some metal fabrication from sheet stock. Just to keep that in mind,
i.e. that "new" doesn't mean it is a simple Lego set. One other challenge
in a used kit is to be sure it is all there, not to mention partially built
correctly. New inventory probably takes at least a dozen hours, so in a
second-hand purchase, you're not likely to even come close to a complete
check. I got assurance from the guy I bought from that the plane was
always just in the same building (no accidentally left out pieces at
another hangar), plus I benefitted, oddly enf, in that when he got the kit
new from MAM, a fork lift had punched through the crate during shipping.
This resulted in him going through initial inventory twice, to make sure it
was all there and for any damaged parts needing replacement (which
MAM/insurance took care of). See if the original owner has the original
inventory sheets and evidence of him checking it was all there then. (OR
give Bob a call and buy a new one!)
-Ben/ 496R

K and C Phillion wrote:

Hello All: first of all, my name is Kurt Phillion and I have had a
passion for flying since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I started
taking lessons 20 years ago but soon found that a new wife and family
was my priority (so I was told) now I am reprioratizing my life and
flying is back on top, My question is I have a chance to purchase an
unbuilt kit from 1991 of the rebel, I am hoping to find out if I
would be better off with a newer kit, eg: up dates, out of dates, any
information would be greatly appreciated, thankyou so much, Kurt
Phillion

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I also bought a kit underconstruction, kit number 307. The previous owner said all part were there but I still had to order several from MAM. The biggest problem I found was with the rigging, it was all messed up except for the rudder. I am now flying off my hours and hope to bring it down to Sun n Fun this year.

Hank Balch

-----Original Message-----

From: bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Feb 15, 2009 9:07 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] old kt verses new kit

Kurt,
Welcome to the group! I'm the second owner of mine, feel I got a good deal
on it, and have had no problems. Mine is number 496, new I think in about
1994 or 95, and already was the 1650 kit. Even if you buy a new kit, the
list of "Ontario Mod" items, or re-do's from screwing up, will have you
doing some metal fabrication from sheet stock. Just to keep that in mind,
i.e. that "new" doesn't mean it is a simple Lego set. One other challenge
in a used kit is to be sure it is all there, not to mention partially built
correctly. New inventory probably takes at least a dozen hours, so in a
second-hand purchase, you're not likely to even come close to a complete
check. I got assurance from the guy I bought from that the plane was
always just in the same building (no accidentally left out pieces at
another hangar), plus I benefitted, oddly enf, in that when he got the kit
new from MAM, a fork lift had punched through the crate during shipping.
This resulted in him going through initial inventory twice, to make sure it
was all there and for any damaged parts needing replacement (which
MAM/insurance took care of). See if the original owner has the original
inventory sheets and evidence of him checking it was all there then. (OR
give Bob a call and buy a new one!)
-Ben/ 496R

K and C Phillion wrote:

Hello All: first of all, my name is Kurt Phillion and I have had a
passion for flying since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I started
taking lessons 20 years ago but soon found that a new wife and family
was my priority (so I was told) now I am reprioratizing my life and
flying is back on top, My question is I have a chance to purchase an
unbuilt kit from 1991 of the rebel, I am hoping to find out if I
would be better off with a newer kit, eg: up dates, out of dates, any
information would be greatly appreciated, thankyou so much, Kurt
Phillion

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