The Murphy Builders Site

It seems like you're giving up the transfer of the applied force from one
side of the tail to the other side since the tube type goes clear across.
You'd have to do some major reinforcing around the type in your link. With a
little help from a friend welding some round flanges onto the outer tube I
fabricated my own pull handles for next to nothing. If you know someone that
can spend 15 minutes welding the end flanges onto a tube I can show you how
I made mine.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
schaumr@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:31 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

Hi Everyone,

As I am nearing completion of the tail cone I looked through the archives on

the list regarding the "ground-handling kit". I thought it might be a good
time
to install it (although I'm not sure how to plan for the location of the
elevator
cables).

Seems most agree the kit is handy, but MAM wants $289 (cnd) for it these
days. This seems like a lot for a tube-within-a-tube assembly, but then
again, I haven't seen one up close.

I am considering an alternative, and would like to hear people's comments:

http://www.southco.com/resources/documents/p1.en.pdf

The link is to a "flush pull" handle that you can attach to flat surfaces
(like a
filing cabinet drawer). I am thinking about making a 4.5" W x 1.5" H hole
on
either side of the fuselage near the tail, put on a 0.030 doubler, and
attach
this handle. Apparently, they can take ~300 lbs of force when installed
(i.e.
more than enough). Can anyone comment on the impact of such a hole on
the structural integrity of the hull? What about optimal placement near a
bulkhead? I was thinking the narrow section right between the stringers on
the side of the cone (FUS0022?). To use, you'd put your arm over the cone,
grab the handle, and pull up with the cone firmly under your arm.

Thanks for your time.

Rob
Rebel 786



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I uploaded a file called "tailpullhandles.jpg" in the S/M Misc section of
the archives with a crude drawing of how I made my pull handles. Note that
the length of the long outer tube doesn't have to be perfect. Just measure
from side to side of the tailcone where you want the handles, cut the tube
and weld on the flanges. If you are a little off just slide the thing
forward or aft until it fits. You should be able to get within a 1/2 inch of
where you want it. I've pulled very hard on my handles pushing the plane
around with no damage to the handles or the tailcone. I can measure the
location I ended up with if someone is interested.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

It seems like you're giving up the transfer of the applied force from one
side of the tail to the other side since the tube type goes clear across.
You'd have to do some major reinforcing around the type in your link. With a
little help from a friend welding some round flanges onto the outer tube I
fabricated my own pull handles for next to nothing. If you know someone that
can spend 15 minutes welding the end flanges onto a tube I can show you how
I made mine.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
schaumr@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:31 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

Hi Everyone,

As I am nearing completion of the tail cone I looked through the archives on

the list regarding the "ground-handling kit". I thought it might be a good
time
to install it (although I'm not sure how to plan for the location of the
elevator
cables).

Seems most agree the kit is handy, but MAM wants $289 (cnd) for it these
days. This seems like a lot for a tube-within-a-tube assembly, but then
again, I haven't seen one up close.

I am considering an alternative, and would like to hear people's comments:

http://www.southco.com/resources/documents/p1.en.pdf

The link is to a "flush pull" handle that you can attach to flat surfaces
(like a
filing cabinet drawer). I am thinking about making a 4.5" W x 1.5" H hole
on
either side of the fuselage near the tail, put on a 0.030 doubler, and
attach
this handle. Apparently, they can take ~300 lbs of force when installed
(i.e.
more than enough). Can anyone comment on the impact of such a hole on
the structural integrity of the hull? What about optimal placement near a
bulkhead? I was thinking the narrow section right between the stringers on
the side of the cone (FUS0022?). To use, you'd put your arm over the cone,
grab the handle, and pull up with the cone firmly under your arm.

Thanks for your time.

Rob
Rebel 786



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P.S. My drawing shows the bolts and slots on the aft part of the tube when
they are really on top. I can reach them from my rear baggage area door if I
ever need to adjust the bolt tension or replace the plastic tube friction
thingies.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:52 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

I uploaded a file called "tailpullhandles.jpg" in the S/M Misc section of
the archives with a crude drawing of how I made my pull handles. Note that
the length of the long outer tube doesn't have to be perfect. Just measure
from side to side of the tailcone where you want the handles, cut the tube
and weld on the flanges. If you are a little off just slide the thing
forward or aft until it fits. You should be able to get within a 1/2 inch of
where you want it. I've pulled very hard on my handles pushing the plane
around with no damage to the handles or the tailcone. I can measure the
location I ended up with if someone is interested.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

It seems like you're giving up the transfer of the applied force from one
side of the tail to the other side since the tube type goes clear across.
You'd have to do some major reinforcing around the type in your link. With a
little help from a friend welding some round flanges onto the outer tube I
fabricated my own pull handles for next to nothing. If you know someone that
can spend 15 minutes welding the end flanges onto a tube I can show you how
I made mine.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
schaumr@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:31 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

Hi Everyone,

As I am nearing completion of the tail cone I looked through the archives on

the list regarding the "ground-handling kit". I thought it might be a good
time
to install it (although I'm not sure how to plan for the location of the
elevator
cables).

Seems most agree the kit is handy, but MAM wants $289 (cnd) for it these
days. This seems like a lot for a tube-within-a-tube assembly, but then
again, I haven't seen one up close.

I am considering an alternative, and would like to hear people's comments:

http://www.southco.com/resources/documents/p1.en.pdf

The link is to a "flush pull" handle that you can attach to flat surfaces
(like a
filing cabinet drawer). I am thinking about making a 4.5" W x 1.5" H hole
on
either side of the fuselage near the tail, put on a 0.030 doubler, and
attach
this handle. Apparently, they can take ~300 lbs of force when installed
(i.e.
more than enough). Can anyone comment on the impact of such a hole on
the structural integrity of the hull? What about optimal placement near a
bulkhead? I was thinking the narrow section right between the stringers on
the side of the cone (FUS0022?). To use, you'd put your arm over the cone,
grab the handle, and pull up with the cone firmly under your arm.

Thanks for your time.

Rob
Rebel 786



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Rob
I took these photos at Oshkosh last year of Si Smith Rebel.
I don't know if he brought or home made is ground handing device. If my
memory is correct he inserted two handles one from each side that engaged a
spring loaded lock inside the larger permanently attached tube in the
fuselage, then removed and stored them a way after moving. I am not to good
at up loading to the Rebel net so I will send them to your personal "E" mail
address. Hope this helps.
Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: <schaumr@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

Hi Everyone,

As I am nearing completion of the tail cone I looked through the archives
on
the list regarding the "ground-handling kit". I thought it might be a
good time
to install it (although I'm not sure how to plan for the location of the
elevator
cables).

Seems most agree the kit is handy, but MAM wants $289 (cnd) for it these
days. This seems like a lot for a tube-within-a-tube assembly, but then
again, I haven't seen one up close.

I am considering an alternative, and would like to hear people's comments:

http://www.southco.com/resources/documents/p1.en.pdf

The link is to a "flush pull" handle that you can attach to flat surfaces
(like a
filing cabinet drawer). I am thinking about making a 4.5" W x 1.5" H hole
on
either side of the fuselage near the tail, put on a 0.030 doubler, and
attach
this handle. Apparently, they can take ~300 lbs of force when installed
(i.e.
more than enough). Can anyone comment on the impact of such a hole on
the structural integrity of the hull? What about optimal placement near a
bulkhead? I was thinking the narrow section right between the stringers
on
the side of the cone (FUS0022?). To use, you'd put your arm over the
cone,
grab the handle, and pull up with the cone firmly under your arm.

Thanks for your time.

Rob
Rebel 786



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CHRLIE: I would appreciate receiving a copy of those photos as well.

E-mail: joe@halzel.com

Joe Ronco 279R

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Eubanks
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 4:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

Rob
I took these photos at Oshkosh last year of Si Smith Rebel.
I don't know if he brought or home made is ground handing device. If my
memory is correct he inserted two handles one from each side that engaged a
spring loaded lock inside the larger permanently attached tube in the
fuselage, then removed and stored them a way after moving. I am not to good
at up loading to the Rebel net so I will send them to your personal "E" mail

address. Hope this helps.
Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: <schaumr@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

Hi Everyone,

As I am nearing completion of the tail cone I looked through the archives
on
the list regarding the "ground-handling kit". I thought it might be a
good time
to install it (although I'm not sure how to plan for the location of the
elevator
cables).

Seems most agree the kit is handy, but MAM wants $289 (cnd) for it these
days. This seems like a lot for a tube-within-a-tube assembly, but then
again, I haven't seen one up close.

I am considering an alternative, and would like to hear people's comments:

http://www.southco.com/resources/documents/p1.en.pdf

The link is to a "flush pull" handle that you can attach to flat surfaces
(like a
filing cabinet drawer). I am thinking about making a 4.5" W x 1.5" H hole

on
either side of the fuselage near the tail, put on a 0.030 doubler, and
attach
this handle. Apparently, they can take ~300 lbs of force when installed
(i.e.
more than enough). Can anyone comment on the impact of such a hole on
the structural integrity of the hull? What about optimal placement near a
bulkhead? I was thinking the narrow section right between the stringers
on
the side of the cone (FUS0022?). To use, you'd put your arm over the
cone,
grab the handle, and pull up with the cone firmly under your arm.

Thanks for your time.

Rob
Rebel 786



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At 07:30 AM 22/01/2009 -0900, you wrote:

Hi Everyone,

As I am nearing completion of the tail cone I looked through the archives on
the list regarding the "ground-handling kit". I thought it might be a

good time

to install it (although I'm not sure how to plan for the location of the

elevator

cables).

Seems most agree the kit is handy, but MAM wants $289 (cnd) for it these
days. This seems like a lot for a tube-within-a-tube assembly, but then
again, I haven't seen one up close.

I am considering an alternative, and would like to hear people's comments:

http://www.southco.com/resources/documents/p1.en.pdf

The link is to a "flush pull" handle that you can attach to flat surfaces

(like a

filing cabinet drawer). I am thinking about making a 4.5" W x 1.5" H hole

on

either side of the fuselage near the tail, put on a 0.030 doubler, and

attach

this handle. Apparently, they can take ~300 lbs of force when installed

(i.e.

more than enough). Can anyone comment on the impact of such a hole on
the structural integrity of the hull? What about optimal placement near a
bulkhead? I was thinking the narrow section right between the stringers on
the side of the cone (FUS0022?). To use, you'd put your arm over the cone,
grab the handle, and pull up with the cone firmly under your arm.

Thanks for your time.

Rob
Rebel 786

Hi Rob I think that once you have your plane built you'll find that it's
fairly heavy on the tail especially with full fuel and some baggage. I
don't think that it'd be very easy to pick up the tail with one hand and
move the plane around if I imagined your description correctly. I don't
have any experience with the ground handler handles but I do find that a
piece of rope around the tailspring is very effective for moving my plane
around. A 1/2" mooring line with an eye spliced in one end so you can just
loop it in place would be perfect and under $10 at most discount stores.
Drew



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Ron or Joe...... maybe one of you guys can upload the photos for
Charlie....... Then other interested builders can view.


On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Joe Ronco <joe@halzel.com> wrote:

CHRLIE: I would appreciate receiving a copy of those photos as well.

E-mail: joe@halzel.com

Joe Ronco 279R

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Eubanks
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 4:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

Rob
I took these photos at Oshkosh last year of Si Smith Rebel.
I don't know if he brought or home made is ground handing device. If my
memory is correct he inserted two handles one from each side that engaged a
spring loaded lock inside the larger permanently attached tube in the
fuselage, then removed and stored them a way after moving. I am not to good
at up loading to the Rebel net so I will send them to your personal "E"
mail

address. Hope this helps.
Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: <schaumr@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

Hi Everyone,

As I am nearing completion of the tail cone I looked through the archives
on
the list regarding the "ground-handling kit". I thought it might be a
good time
to install it (although I'm not sure how to plan for the location of the
elevator
cables).

Seems most agree the kit is handy, but MAM wants $289 (cnd) for it these
days. This seems like a lot for a tube-within-a-tube assembly, but then
again, I haven't seen one up close.

I am considering an alternative, and would like to hear people's

comments:

http://www.southco.com/resources/documents/p1.en.pdf

The link is to a "flush pull" handle that you can attach to flat surfaces
(like a
filing cabinet drawer). I am thinking about making a 4.5" W x 1.5" H

hole

on
either side of the fuselage near the tail, put on a 0.030 doubler, and
attach
this handle. Apparently, they can take ~300 lbs of force when installed
(i.e.
more than enough). Can anyone comment on the impact of such a hole on
the structural integrity of the hull? What about optimal placement near

a

bulkhead? I was thinking the narrow section right between the stringers
on
the side of the cone (FUS0022?). To use, you'd put your arm over the
cone,
grab the handle, and pull up with the cone firmly under your arm.

Thanks for your time.

Rob
Rebel 786



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FWIW

Yes the tail of my Rebel is also much too heavy to lift by the handle.

I use a homemade retractable handle on the left side of the tail all the
time for pushing out of the hangar and moving it when away from home
base. I have found one handle totally adequate. It is a one inch round
tube that slides into a square tube. The square tube is riveted to
brackets on both sides of the fuselage at a bulkhead. A bit tricky to
fabricate but cheap.

At home base I use a homemade taildragger dolly that lifts the tailwheel
and I pull on the dolly. Easier and safer in that I am standing a couple
of feet behind the tail and can see the entire plane as I pull it
rearward. I believe there are pics of such on the Aircraft Spruce site.
It is very easy to bang a wingtip or stab when manoevering with the
fuselage handle. With the dolly you can see everything easily. With
MAM's tailwheel you don't even need the dolly as you can use a 4 foot
tube with a T handle on one end and a 3/8" bolt welded on the lower end
that slides inside the hollow axle.

And to be fair - yes I also use a rope tied to the tailspring and a
winch to pull the plane back into the hangar in winter when it is too
slippery to use the above methods.

Ken

Hi Rob I think that once you have your plane built you'll find that it's
fairly heavy on the tail especially with full fuel and some baggage. I
don't think that it'd be very easy to pick up the tail with one hand and
move the plane around if I imagined your description correctly. I don't
have any experience with the ground handler handles but I do find that a
piece of rope around the tailspring is very effective for moving my plane
around. A 1/2" mooring line with an eye spliced in one end so you can just
loop it in place would be perfect and under $10 at most discount stores.
Drew

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Thanks everyone for the opinions and ideas!

I look forward to seeing Si's photos, and hope others can also spare a few
moments to upload some pics of their installations. Mike's site offers a
great opportunity to show off your ingenuity!

Cheers!

Rob



On 1/22/2009 6:37 PM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> FWIW
->
-> Yes the tail of my Rebel is also much too heavy to lift by the handle.
->
-> I use a homemade retractable handle on the left side of the tail all the
-> time for pushing out of the hangar and moving it when away from home
-> base. I have found one handle totally adequate. It is a one inch round
-> tube that slides into a square tube. The square tube is riveted to
-> brackets on both sides of the fuselage at a bulkhead. A bit tricky to
-> fabricate but cheap.
->
-> At home base I use a homemade taildragger dolly that lifts the tailwheel
-> and I pull on the dolly. Easier and safer in that I am standing a couple
-> of feet behind the tail and can see the entire plane as I pull it
-> rearward. I believe there are pics of such on the Aircraft Spruce site.
-> It is very easy to bang a wingtip or stab when manoevering with the
-> fuselage handle. With the dolly you can see everything easily. With
-> MAM's tailwheel you don't even need the dolly as you can use a 4 foot
-> tube with a T handle on one end and a 3/8" bolt welded on the lower end
-> that slides inside the hollow axle.
->
-> And to be fair - yes I also use a rope tied to the tailspring and a
-> winch to pull the plane back into the hangar in winter when it is too
-> slippery to use the above methods.
->
-> Ken
->
->
-> >
-> > Hi Rob I think that once you have your plane built you'll find that it's
-> > fairly heavy on the tail especially with full fuel and some baggage. I
-> > don't think that it'd be very easy to pick up the tail with one hand and
-> > move the plane around if I imagined your description correctly. I don't
-> > have any experience with the ground handler handles but I do find that a
-> > piece of rope around the tailspring is very effective for moving my plane
-> > around. A 1/2" mooring line with an eye spliced in one end so you can just
-> > loop it in place would be perfect and under $10 at most discount stores.
-> > Drew
-> >




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At 08:24 PM 22/01/2009 -0900, you wrote:

Thanks everyone for the opinions and ideas!

I look forward to seeing Si's photos, and hope others can also spare a few
moments to upload some pics of their installations. Mike's site offers a
great opportunity to show off your ingenuity!

Cheers!

Rob

OK I'll take a picture of my rope :)
Drew



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Drew: I enjoyed your sense of humor.

Keith P






On 1/22/2009 8:37 PM, drewjan@cabletv.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> At 08:24 PM 22/01/2009 -0900, you wrote:
-> >Thanks everyone for the opinions and ideas!
-> >
-> >I look forward to seeing Si's photos, and hope others can also spare a few
-> >moments to upload some pics of their installations. Mike's site offers a
-> >great opportunity to show off your ingenuity!
-> >
-> >Cheers!
-> >
-> >Rob
->
->
-> OK I'll take a picture of my rope :)
-> Drew




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Rob
I would be glad to send you the photos of Si's Rebel but you will have to
send me your "E" mail address.
Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: <schaumr@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

Thanks everyone for the opinions and ideas!

I look forward to seeing Si's photos, and hope others can also spare a few
moments to upload some pics of their installations. Mike's site offers a
great opportunity to show off your ingenuity!

Cheers!

Rob



On 1/22/2009 6:37 PM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> FWIW
->
-> Yes the tail of my Rebel is also much too heavy to lift by the handle.
->
-> I use a homemade retractable handle on the left side of the tail all
the
-> time for pushing out of the hangar and moving it when away from home
-> base. I have found one handle totally adequate. It is a one inch round
-> tube that slides into a square tube. The square tube is riveted to
-> brackets on both sides of the fuselage at a bulkhead. A bit tricky to
-> fabricate but cheap.
->
-> At home base I use a homemade taildragger dolly that lifts the
tailwheel
-> and I pull on the dolly. Easier and safer in that I am standing a
couple
-> of feet behind the tail and can see the entire plane as I pull it
-> rearward. I believe there are pics of such on the Aircraft Spruce site.
-> It is very easy to bang a wingtip or stab when manoevering with the
-> fuselage handle. With the dolly you can see everything easily. With
-> MAM's tailwheel you don't even need the dolly as you can use a 4 foot
-> tube with a T handle on one end and a 3/8" bolt welded on the lower end
-> that slides inside the hollow axle.
->
-> And to be fair - yes I also use a rope tied to the tailspring and a
-> winch to pull the plane back into the hangar in winter when it is too
-> slippery to use the above methods.
->
-> Ken
->
->
-> >
-> > Hi Rob I think that once you have your plane built you'll find that
it's
-> > fairly heavy on the tail especially with full fuel and some baggage.
I
-> > don't think that it'd be very easy to pick up the tail with one hand
and
-> > move the plane around if I imagined your description correctly. I
don't
-> > have any experience with the ground handler handles but I do find
that a
-> > piece of rope around the tailspring is very effective for moving my
plane
-> > around. A 1/2" mooring line with an eye spliced in one end so you can
just
-> > loop it in place would be perfect and under $10 at most discount
stores.
-> > Drew
-> >




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Charlie

Could you send a copy to me also?

jean.poirier@oxyportneuf.com

Thanks

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

If you do a picture of yours I'll do a picture of mine! It also doubles to
tie-down the tail when on wheels or to tie up the Golden Retriever when we
are on a ramp getting fuel.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

At 08:24 PM 22/01/2009 -0900, you wrote:

Thanks everyone for the opinions and ideas!

I look forward to seeing Si's photos, and hope others can also spare a few
moments to upload some pics of their installations. Mike's site offers a
great opportunity to show off your ingenuity!

Cheers!

Rob

OK I'll take a picture of my rope :)
Drew



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Hey, why do you not post these pictures on the website and
then everyone can see and maybe get some new ideas that they
can use

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Angus
McKenzie
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 9:12 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

If you do a picture of yours I'll do a picture of mine! It also doubles to
tie-down the tail when on wheels or to tie up the Golden Retriever when we
are on a ramp getting fuel.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Ground handling kit: alternatives

At 08:24 PM 22/01/2009 -0900, you wrote:

Thanks everyone for the opinions and ideas!

I look forward to seeing Si's photos, and hope others can also spare a few
moments to upload some pics of their installations. Mike's site offers a
great opportunity to show off your ingenuity!

Cheers!

Rob

OK I'll take a picture of my rope :)
Drew



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