The Murphy Builders Site

A question for those that are building Super Rebels.

What engine are you planning to use?

I've got a fast built kit on order, and should be here on (Fill in the
date.)

Currently, I'm looking at two different engines.

First is the F6A-350C1R Franklin engine. It's 364lbs will all
accessories, less prop and exhaust. Pluses: As far as I can tell,
it's weight is very close to a Lycoming IO-360, produces 20HP
more and can be bought new for the price of a rebuilt IO-360. It's
lower weight means more payload and should have a fuel burn
similar to the IO, meaning more range than a larger engine.

Minuses: 220HP might be a bit anemic for the SR, and with a 10:1
compression ratio, 100LL is a must, even though availability in the
future might be problematic.

The other is the Russian radial M14P. To be frank, that's more
engine than I want, but there are advantages. Minuses: It's heavy.
To the same equipment level as the Franklin above, I figure it's 500-
510lbs, not counting it probably having a heavier exhaust system. It
probably needs a heavier prop too. That's at least 150lbs less for
payload. (If the gross increase that MAM announced is only for the
M14P version, that gets offset.) At full power, the thing is sucking
down almost 42 GPH. What sort of range will it have?

Pluses: 360HP. (drool) I've read that it can run on mogas, so even
with a higher fuel burn, it might be cheaper to operate. Prices are
similar to the Franklin. Turned back to economy cruise (what they
call Cruise II) of 144HP, it should only consume about 11 GPH. At
the best BSFC, (Cruise I) it's putting out 180HP at 15 GPH. These
numbers are from the maintenance manual, so it's hard to say
what real world numbers would be.

Besides, radials look cool. :)

Any comments?

---
David Parrish

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

Anyone with experience on the Franklins please contribute.......I have
heard good things about these and the difference in $'s will make you

I owned a M4 Maule with the 220hp for 5 years. The old engine always

ran smoothly. Problem was... I couldn't find parts very easily for the

couldn't find a mechanic that knew anything about them. Maybe with the

engines coming off the assembly line that may change... I can't remember,

150-160hp version?
Clay

Louis Young wrote:

Anyone with experience on the Franklins please contribute.......I have heard
good things about these and the difference in $'s will make you look twice
...... Anybody running these on a Reb airframe or Super Reb ??

Louis Young, wanna-be-a-builder
www.justplanevideos.com

----- Original Message -----
From: David M Parrish <dmp@radbsd.mcg.edu>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 8:15 AM
Subject: SR engines?

A question for those that are building Super Rebels.

What engine are you planning to use?

I've got a fast built kit on order, and should be here on (Fill in the
date.)

Currently, I'm looking at two different engines.

First is the F6A-350C1R Franklin engine. It's 364lbs will all
accessories, less prop and exhaust. Pluses: As far as I can tell,
it's weight is very close to a Lycoming IO-360, produces 20HP
more and can be bought new for the price of a rebuilt IO-360. It's
lower weight means more payload and should have a fuel burn
similar to the IO, meaning more range than a larger engine.

Minuses: 220HP might be a bit anemic for the SR, and with a 10:1
compression ratio, 100LL is a must, even though availability in the
future might be problematic.

The other is the Russian radial M14P. To be frank, that's more
engine than I want, but there are advantages. Minuses: It's heavy.
To the same equipment level as the Franklin above, I figure it's 500-
510lbs, not counting it probably having a heavier exhaust system. It
probably needs a heavier prop too. That's at least 150lbs less for
payload. (If the gross increase that MAM announced is only for the
M14P version, that gets offset.) At full power, the thing is sucking
down almost 42 GPH. What sort of range will it have?

Pluses: 360HP. (drool) I've read that it can run on mogas, so even
with a higher fuel burn, it might be cheaper to operate. Prices are
similar to the Franklin. Turned back to economy cruise (what they
call Cruise II) of 144HP, it should only consume about 11 GPH. At
the best BSFC, (Cruise I) it's putting out 180HP at 15 GPH. These
numbers are from the maintenance manual, so it's hard to say
what real world numbers would be.

Besides, radials look cool. :)

Any comments?

---
David Parrish

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone with experience on the Franklins please contribute.......I have heard
good things about these and the difference in $'s will make you look twice
...... Anybody running these on a Reb airframe or Super Reb ??

Louis Young, wanna-be-a-builder
www.justplanevideos.com

----- Original Message -----
From: David M Parrish <dmp@radbsd.mcg.edu>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 8:15 AM
Subject: SR engines?

A question for those that are building Super Rebels.

What engine are you planning to use?

I've got a fast built kit on order, and should be here on (Fill in the
date.)

Currently, I'm looking at two different engines.

First is the F6A-350C1R Franklin engine. It's 364lbs will all
accessories, less prop and exhaust. Pluses: As far as I can tell,
it's weight is very close to a Lycoming IO-360, produces 20HP
more and can be bought new for the price of a rebuilt IO-360. It's
lower weight means more payload and should have a fuel burn
similar to the IO, meaning more range than a larger engine.

Minuses: 220HP might be a bit anemic for the SR, and with a 10:1
compression ratio, 100LL is a must, even though availability in the
future might be problematic.

The other is the Russian radial M14P. To be frank, that's more
engine than I want, but there are advantages. Minuses: It's heavy.
To the same equipment level as the Franklin above, I figure it's 500-
510lbs, not counting it probably having a heavier exhaust system. It
probably needs a heavier prop too. That's at least 150lbs less for
payload. (If the gross increase that MAM announced is only for the
M14P version, that gets offset.) At full power, the thing is sucking
down almost 42 GPH. What sort of range will it have?

Pluses: 360HP. (drool) I've read that it can run on mogas, so even
with a higher fuel burn, it might be cheaper to operate. Prices are
similar to the Franklin. Turned back to economy cruise (what they
call Cruise II) of 144HP, it should only consume about 11 GPH. At
the best BSFC, (Cruise I) it's putting out 180HP at 15 GPH. These
numbers are from the maintenance manual, so it's hard to say
what real world numbers would be.

Besides, radials look cool. :)

Any comments?

---
David Parrish

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Clay, and Louis,

I think the 4 cylinder is in the 120 hp. range ... Before they
went out of business, it <WAS> called the "Sport Four", and several
builders here tried them in various homebuilts ... Seem to recall
several complaints about a lot of vibration, but nothing else. I believe
they <were> sold as almost a 'short block' - no accessories, mags, carb,
alternator, or exhaust.

I believe the 4 cylinders are available again - has anybody heard
from someone who's using a NEW one ???

......bobp

-----------------------------orig.----------------------------------------

At 11:14 PM 10/8/00 -0230, you wrote:

I owned a M4 Maule with the 220hp for 5 years. The old engine always

started well and

ran smoothly. Problem was... I couldn't find parts very easily for the

engine, and also

couldn't find a mechanic that knew anything about them. Maybe with the

factory new

engines coming off the assembly line that may change... I can't remember,

do they have a

150-160hp version?
Clay

Louis Young wrote:

Anyone with experience on the Franklins please contribute.......I have

good things about these and the difference in $'s will make you look

...... Anybody running these on a Reb airframe or Super Reb ??

Louis Young, wanna-be-a-builder
www.justplanevideos.com

----- Original Message -----
From: David M Parrish <dmp@radbsd.mcg.edu>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 8:15 AM
Subject: SR engines?

--------*

--------*

--------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

Chuck Bailey has a new 4 cyl Franklin in his rebel that recently made its
first flight.. He claims it runs very smooth.

- Chuck Skorupa -
Elite S/N 500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: franklins,

Clay, and Louis,

I think the 4 cylinder is in the 120 hp. range ... Before they
went out of business, it <WAS> called the "Sport Four", and several
builders here tried them in various homebuilts ... Seem to recall
several complaints about a lot of vibration, but nothing else. I believe
they <were> sold as almost a 'short block' - no accessories, mags, carb,
alternator, or exhaust.

I believe the 4 cylinders are available again - has anybody heard
from someone who's using a NEW one ???

......bobp

-----------------------------orig.----------------------------------------

--

At 11:14 PM 10/8/00 -0230, you wrote:

I owned a M4 Maule with the 220hp for 5 years. The old engine always

started well and

ran smoothly. Problem was... I couldn't find parts very easily for the

engine, and also

couldn't find a mechanic that knew anything about them. Maybe with the

factory new

engines coming off the assembly line that may change... I can't remember,

do they have a

150-160hp version?
Clay

Louis Young wrote:

heard

twice

the

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------