[rebel-builders] 0-200 vs 0-320 0235 etc

WALTER KLATT · Post by **WALTER KLATT** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm

I made several long trips (with 3+ hour legs) in past years with an identical amphib 150 hp 320 Rebel, except he had the Ellison. What we found is that on a long leg, the other plane usually filled up (and we both always filled our tanks to the top) with about 1 gallon less (after using about 30 gallons), so it was slightly more efficient. My excuse though was that I wasn't always at my fuel flow sweet spot that I mentioned previously because of flying together.

On performance, our planes were pretty well identical for take off, climb, and top speed. His was the only Rebel that I have flown with that could match my performance (including 160 hp ones), and I attribute that to using the same Sensenich 74 X 54 prop. Previously, he had the 74 X 56, and it was definitely much lower performance including speed.

Interestingly, I swapped props on my new 360 engine, moving from a Sensenich 76 X 54 to a 76 X 56 and lost 100 rpm in climb (2660 to 2560) and about 2 or 300 fpm less. Don't know what it does to top speed, as with either prop, I chicken out at about 140 mph, and the 56 pitch still over revs. My climb is still acceptable though at 1500+ fpm solo, but not seeing 1800 anymore. For comparison, the best my 320 could do was 1100 fpm solo. Again, this is on amphibs.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: bransom@dcsol.com
Date: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:25 pm
Subject: [rebel-builders] 0-200 vs 0-320 0235 etc
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Anyone know of performance from use of an Ellison throttle body
carb? I'm
sitting on the impression that this carb is the next best thing
to fuel
injection, in that it does a very good job of getting the
correct amount of
fuel/air to each cylinder. It should alleviate any
problems running at low
rpm too. Anyone know if they're any good?
-Ben/ 496r

One thing that really helps is a fuel monitor, especially with
a carbed
engine. With my previous 320 engine, I had to play around at
different rpms
and power setting, depending on altitude, to find the sweet
spot for maximum
efficiency. That would result in at least a .5 gph saving over
the lean
until rough method. It cruised easily at 7 or 7.5 gph, even 5
if I was just
tooling around the lake, and sight seeing. This is on amphibs.

Then with my new 360 I was very pleasantly surprised to find
that it was
even more economical than my 320, even though much more
powerful. I save at
least .5 gph at the same speed, or get an extra 5 mph at the
same fuel flow.
I have EI on one side, and that seems to really help lean it more
aggressively without running rough even with the carb. Also I
have the
Superior sump intake which is supposed to be better at fuel
distribution to
each cylinder. Again, this one cruises comfortably at 7 or
7.5, and just
goes a little faster at that fuel flow than before.

So I for one, don't always buy the argument that a bigger
engine uses more
fuel. It depends also on whether it is EI and/or FI. And these
old Lycosaur
design engines are a lot more fuel efficient than some people think.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On
Behalf Of Ken
Sent: November 14, 2008 11:10 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 0-200 MOTOR MOUNT

I've heard guys say this many times and it is no doubt true in some
circumstances. The other side seems to be that the same guys rarely
seem to cruise at such low power. I think it is a combination of
roughness from one cylinder going lean first, plug fouling
from low
temperatures, or maybe they just like to go fast?? My
neighbor's 0-320
just won't run smoothly below 8+ gph. Anyway I wouldn't count
on being
able to do it with a carb, standard intake system, and
magnetos. I
believe that matched injectors, one or two electronic
ignitions with
advance, and mogas will all help at low power.
Ken

Keith Leitch wrote:
Sorry, I don't mean to get off track on your post. If you
have an
O-200 I can understand your question. But as far as the
others, I
personnally don't see much sense in using the O-235/IO-240
unless you
have access to one for cheap. I have an O-235 L2C I had
thought about
installing in my Rebel (whenever I get to that point) but after
looking at the weight vs. the O-320 it is sensless to me.
May as well
use the O-320 and if you are worried about fuel....that
little thing
called the throttle can easily be pulled back. I recently
was on a 5+
hour tour with a bunch of Super Cubs and I was flying my O-300
powered 172. Flying at their speeds I burn a little over 5
gph. I
guess what I am trying to say is it is nice to have the HP
when you
need it....just don't have to use it all the time if you are
concerned with fuel prices. I am waiting for Ron to get his Jabiru
powered Rebel flying so I can get a report. :) The
power to weight
ratio may be an option for me since I will be on floats/skis the
majority of the time. Keith R661

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Rebflyer · Post by **Rebflyer** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm

HI Ben,
To begin with, you complicate the fuel system as you will need a fuel pump
which means 2 if you want the electric and the redundancy of the mechanical
(or vise versa).
If you are at full throttle on take off it runs rough. Pull back some and
it does smooth out. That had been found during taxi testing but it still was
a little disconcerting on first flight. Ellison had no fix, said that is
common.( This was well researched before the first flight)
It seems to run fine otherwise.
Now if you have a carb and really want an Ellison, I'll put you in touch
with the owner and he just may swap. He has told me that a couple of times.
IMHO you will get a lot more HP (ie: more complete fuel burn) for the buck
if you install an electric ignition system.
Me? I'm really looking at a fuel injection systems if I even get to have a
Christmas list.

Curt Martin
N97MR
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
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