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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by Dave Fife
Keith,
Contact Curt Martin, rebflyer@aol.com.



David K. Fife
3D Composite Aircraft Parts Inc.

[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by Ron Shannon
Keith,

I have built, but not yet flown, electric flaperon controls. Details &
photos are on my project web site -- http://n254mr.com -- search for
"actuator". Let me know if you have any other questions.

Ron
254R




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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by Jim Cole
Hi Ron, I took a few minutes to go through your progress on your web site
and it must really be getting exciting - looks terrific.
I can remember when I got down to a list of 26 items to finish before I
could get it flying and all the paper work done in time for the Rebel
Ramble. I think I got about 21 or 22 items done and the other 5 or 6 still
need to be done after 240 hours of flying.
Can't wait to see you in the air.
Good luck!
Jim R333


On 11/4/2008 12:36 PM, "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com> wrote:
Keith,

I have built, but not yet flown, electric flaperon controls. Details &
photos are on my project web site -- http://n254mr.com -- search for
"actuator". Let me know if you have any other questions.

Ron
254R




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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by Rebflyer
Hi Keith
I have 500 hrs on an actuator from motion systems corp. It is a ball drive
P/N 85615. 1" of travel. 30 to 1 gear ratio.It is 5.375 hole center to hole
center fully retracted.
The last phone # I have for the company is 732-222-1800. It was 225.00 10
yrs ago.
In the beginning it was great. What ever flap position was selected that
was what you got. Now, after 500 hrs, it's only about 3/4 of that due to the
air load and the slop in the flight control system. I'd do it again.
Curt Martin
N97MR
**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075 ... idays-from
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)




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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by Ron Shannon
Thanks, Jim. I'm trying to just keep plugging away, with you as inspiration,
for sure. It seems I'm not able to pick up the pace much, and have
completely sworn off giving completion predictions to myself, much less
anyone else. It doesn't help. It'll be done when it's done -- more or less
right -- and not before. I do have a few knowledgeable visitors now and then
who assure me that when seen through their eyes in time lapse fashion, it
looks to them like I'm zooming along.

A few weeks ago, I was sitting on the cockpit floor, staring at all the
panel wiring, nearly done, then at all the other stuff I've done over the
last couple of years, when I realized even contemplation of the _past_ work
was overwhelming! Perhaps that's a sign of progress -- when looking at
what's past is more overwhelming than what's left. :-)

Whatever, the end is coming into focus -- using strong binoculars.

Ron

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Jim Cole <jcole@rangroup.com> wrote:
Hi Ron, I took a few minutes to go through your progress on your web site
and it must really be getting exciting - looks terrific.
I can remember when I got down to a list of 26 items to finish before I
could get it flying and all the paper work done in time for the Rebel
Ramble. I think I got about 21 or 22 items done and the other 5 or 6 still
need to be done after 240 hours of flying.
Can't wait to see you in the air.
Good luck!
Jim R333


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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by WALTER KLATT
Keep going there Ron. You're obviously getting very close. Just keep picking away at it, as you say, and one day, you are just suddenly going to run out of things to do, not even any more safety wiring to find, or wiring tie wraps to do.

I look forward to seeing your plane at Arlington next year, and hearing about how fast you can go with that Jabaru.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Linear actuators
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Thanks, Jim. I'm trying to just keep plugging away, with you as
inspiration,for sure. It seems I'm not able to pick up the pace
much, and have
completely sworn off giving completion predictions to myself,
much less
anyone else. It doesn't help. It'll be done when it's done --
more or less
right -- and not before. I do have a few knowledgeable visitors
now and then
who assure me that when seen through their eyes in time lapse
fashion, it
looks to them like I'm zooming along.

A few weeks ago, I was sitting on the cockpit floor, staring at
all the
panel wiring, nearly done, then at all the other stuff I've done
over the
last couple of years, when I realized even contemplation of the
_past_ work
was overwhelming! Perhaps that's a sign of progress -- when
looking at
what's past is more overwhelming than what's left. :-)

Whatever, the end is coming into focus -- using strong binoculars.

Ron

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Jim Cole
<jcole@rangroup.com> wrote:
Hi Ron, I took a few minutes to go through your progress
on your web site
and it must really be getting exciting - looks terrific.
I can remember when I got down to a list of 26 items to finish
before I
could get it flying and all the paper work done in time for
the Rebel
Ramble. I think I got about 21 or 22 items done and the other
5 or 6 still
need to be done after 240 hours of flying.
Can't wait to see you in the air.
Good luck!
Jim R333


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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by kpierson
Curt: Thank you for answering my post. With such a short travel
on the actuator that you used, did you fasten it farther back on
the control arm to get full travel, or did you use a bell crank?
Keith










On 11/5/2008 11:26 AM, rebflyer@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi Keith
-> I have 500 hrs on an actuator from motion systems corp. It is a ball
drive
-> P/N 85615. 1" of travel. 30 to 1 gear ratio.It is 5.375 hole center to hole
-> center fully retracted.
-> The last phone # I have for the company is 732-222-1800. It was
225.00 10
-> yrs ago.
-> In the beginning it was great. What ever flap position was selected that
-> was what you got. Now, after 500 hrs, it's only about 3/4 of that due to
the
-> air load and the slop in the flight control system. I'd do it again.
-> Curt Martin
-> N97MR
-> **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and
all other
-> Holiday needs. Search Now.
-> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075 ... 798498/aol?
redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/ha ... idays-from
-> -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)
->




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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by kpierson
Ron: Thank you for answering my post. After looking at the picture
of your actuator, I am curious as to why you didn't mount it
vertical so it could direct drive.

Keith











On 11/4/2008 8:36 AM, rshannon@cruzcom.com wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Keith,
->
-> I have built, but not yet flown, electric flaperon controls. Details &
-> photos are on my project web site -- http://n254mr.com -- search for
-> "actuator". Let me know if you have any other questions.
->
-> Ron
-> 254R
->




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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by Ron Shannon
Keith,

After a lot of research, I started by choosing the particular actuator
because it contained both A) internal limit switches, eliminating the need
for potentially fragile external microswitches, more wiring, etc., and B) an
internal position-sensing potentiometer, to support external programming of
more or less precise stepped positioning. Given those two primary
requirements, this particular model had the appropriate range, speed, torque
and load specs.

The actuator's end-to-end travel is 2". The point of connection (mixer arm
forward hole) required ~1-5/8" vertical motion to cover all but a smidgen of
the motion between the mixer arm stops, so I had to reduce ("gear down") the
actuator's limit-to-limit 2" travel to 1-5/8" of movement at the mixer arm
forward hole connection point. I could have done that by approaching the
mixer arm "directly" from above as you suggest, but with the actuator
"leaning" backwards at an acute angle to the mixer arm -- enough to reduce
the motion at the mixer arm from 2" produced by a perpendicular approach to
the mixer arm. However, leaning the actuator back would have put it in the
midst of a popular window location, and required a fair amount of new
support structure there. One motivation for the electric drive in the first
place was to reduce weight over the Teleflex cable, so making elaborate new
structure where I wanted a window didn't seem right. Instead, I chose to
"gear down" the range of travel by (painstakingly) calibrating lobes of a
bell crank. Even though I started with a mock up of the pivot geometry on a
piece of plywood, it took several bell cranks before I got the travel
reduction just right. Six attempts, actually, but in the end, the mixer arm
moves through all but about 1/16" of its total travel available at the mixer
arm stops, and stops just before those via the actuator's internal limit
switches.

To summarize, I started with the actuator I wanted, then designed the
mounting so that actuator would work without impeding a future window. This
did result in some tight clearance issues between the actuator, bell crank,
and vertical push-pull tubes, and all those things and the bell crank
dimensions and location took quite awhile to resolve with the right
hardware. {Ed.: Hey, that's a gross understatement!}

As noted, I haven't flown it yet, but I'm happy with how the nitty-gritty
electro-mechanical operation turned out and have no reason to think it won't
work well. In the end, I probably didn't save as much weight as I'd hoped,
but I'm optimistic I'll get tight, repeatable step positioning. I suppose
the system may develop some slush/slop/play over time, as Curt has
experienced with his but if I too can get 499 hrs. of tight, repeatable step
positoning under various loads before needing an overhaul... I'll be happy
with that. :-)

Ron

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:31 PM, <kpierson@dcsol.com> wrote:
Ron: Thank you for answering my post. After looking at the picture
of your actuator, I am curious as to why you didn't mount it
vertical so it could direct drive.

Keith



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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by Rebflyer
Hi Keith,
Somewhere I've got all the dimensions, but if I remember correctly the
attach point for the actuator is pretty close to the original position for the
cable attach.
If you have the flap arm in place with the retaining blocks you can see
how little the flap arm really moves, even at the longest point on the flap
arm.
I'll try and get to the airport today and measure the distance from the
pivot point to the attaching hole.

Curt Martin
N97MR

**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075 ... idays-from
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)




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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by Bob Andrews
Here's a link that might be useful

http://www.powerdrives.com/electrak/S12-17A8-02.htm

Cheers,
Bob 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:16 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Hi Keith,
Somewhere I've got all the dimensions, but if I remember correctly the
attach point for the actuator is pretty close to the original position for
the
cable attach.
If you have the flap arm in place with the retaining blocks you can see
how little the flap arm really moves, even at the longest point on the flap

arm.
I'll try and get to the airport today and measure the distance from the
pivot point to the attaching hole.

Curt Martin
N97MR

**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all
other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075 ... ?redir=htt
p://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)




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[rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm
by Bob Andrews
Here's a better one ... think that last one might be a bad link ..

http://powerdrives.com/motion_actuators.html

Cheers, Bob 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Andrews [mailto:robert@montanasky.us]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 6:03 AM
To: 'rebel-builders@dcsol.com'
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Here's a link that might be useful

http://www.powerdrives.com/electrak/S12-17A8-02.htm

Cheers,
Bob 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:16 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Linear actuators

Hi Keith,
Somewhere I've got all the dimensions, but if I remember correctly the
attach point for the actuator is pretty close to the original position for
the
cable attach.
If you have the flap arm in place with the retaining blocks you can see
how little the flap arm really moves, even at the longest point on the flap

arm.
I'll try and get to the airport today and measure the distance from the
pivot point to the attaching hole.

Curt Martin
N97MR

**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all
other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075 ... ?redir=htt
p://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)




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