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[rebel-builders] Rebel - tailwheel behavior?

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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Rebel - tailwheel behavior?

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:38 pm

You're right, Ben !

The upwind wing is down - sometimes this means a
2-pointer ! 25 KT at 90 degrees has been common.

That is the best way to tell IF you can land with a crosswind -
line up with the runway, lower the wing, add rudder to
keep straight .... if you can keep lined up, go ahead & land !
If not, you could probably land ACROSS the runway ...
into wind .... ;-)

My strongest crosswind landing was 38, gusting 47 MPH,
at 45+ degrees from the right - but that was in my Rebel on
amphibs --- THE easiest airplane in the world to land !! :-)
Still done with full flapperon....

The Rebel ailerons are very effective - you must remember
to always keep them in the correct position when taxiing !
Easiest way to remember is to pretend that the wind is blowing
on the top of the stick, and move the stick with the wind -
ie - tailwind from right rear, stick to front left ...

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 16:45, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
Garry, I'm curious if your heavy crosswind training was wheel landings or
3-point. And Bob, I'm assuming 3-point in crosswind you are doing so with
upwind wing held low. In 20knots from the side and bleeding to 40knots
airspeed, that must be quite a bank angle!

I felt my instructor, although maybe a great pilot, was a terrible
teacher. He was always behind what I was doing, and made a big deal out of
'Don't let the tailwheel hit first!'. So on the first day I'd release a
little back pressure on the stick and end up bumping 2-3 times between
mains and tail with too much energy. By quirk in the schedule, my second
day was with the chief pilot and he said 'what the hell is he talking
about -- every single plane on this field (tail or tri) is landed by
bleeding off all energy till ideally the stick/yoke is all the way back as
it touches down. First time around with him and a few quiet '...hold it
off, ...keep holding it off', and 3-pointer greasers were pretty much in
the bag. -Ben
I also did my transition training in the 115 HP Citabria - the Rebel
compares very favorably with that. Our location in the foothills of the
western Rockies and a very capable instructor (now sadly deceased from
cancer) had me doing direct crosswind landings in gusty winds above 25
knots in the Citabria. The Rebel is every bit as good and I use it
frequently at my home airport with nasty crosswinds. It doesn't get any
better than that.

Garry
068R



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robert

[rebel-builders] Rebel - tailwheel behavior?

Post by robert » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:38 pm

Good rule of thumb, but you may find yourself in the ditch anyway - you'll need more stick and rudder as the plane slows during roll out. Hitting the control stops while still doing 45-50 can make for an interesting day. Bob 612e
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca>

Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 17:32:18
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel - tailwheel behavior?



You're right, Ben !

The upwind wing is down - sometimes this means a
2-pointer ! 25 KT at 90 degrees has been common.

That is the best way to tell IF you can land with a crosswind -
line up with the runway, lower the wing, add rudder to
keep straight .... if you can keep lined up, go ahead & land !
If not, you could probably land ACROSS the runway ...
into wind .... ;-)

My strongest crosswind landing was 38, gusting 47 MPH,
at 45+ degrees from the right - but that was in my Rebel on
amphibs --- THE easiest airplane in the world to land !! :-)
Still done with full flapperon....

The Rebel ailerons are very effective - you must remember
to always keep them in the correct position when taxiing !
Easiest way to remember is to pretend that the wind is blowing
on the top of the stick, and move the stick with the wind -
ie - tailwind from right rear, stick to front left ...

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 16:45, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
Garry, I'm curious if your heavy crosswind training was wheel landings or
3-point. And Bob, I'm assuming 3-point in crosswind you are doing so with
upwind wing held low. In 20knots from the side and bleeding to 40knots
airspeed, that must be quite a bank angle!

I felt my instructor, although maybe a great pilot, was a terrible
teacher. He was always behind what I was doing, and made a big deal out of
'Don't let the tailwheel hit first!'. So on the first day I'd release a
little back pressure on the stick and end up bumping 2-3 times between
mains and tail with too much energy. By quirk in the schedule, my second
day was with the chief pilot and he said 'what the hell is he talking
about -- every single plane on this field (tail or tri) is landed by
bleeding off all energy till ideally the stick/yoke is all the way back as
it touches down. First time around with him and a few quiet '...hold it
off, ...keep holding it off', and 3-pointer greasers were pretty much in
the bag. -Ben
I also did my transition training in the 115 HP Citabria - the Rebel
compares very favorably with that. Our location in the foothills of the
western Rockies and a very capable instructor (now sadly deceased from
cancer) had me doing direct crosswind landings in gusty winds above 25
knots in the Citabria. The Rebel is every bit as good and I use it
frequently at my home airport with nasty crosswinds. It doesn't get any
better than that.

Garry
068R



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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Rebel - tailwheel behavior?

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:38 pm

Good point, Bob !

A bit of brake might be needed to keep it straight near the
end of roll-out .... never run out of control on a Rebel... yet !

Hitting the stops IS <much> more likely in an Elite - been
through a ditch with one of those already !! Any feedback
on how your control setup mods worked out ??????

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 17:41, robert@montanasky.us wrote:
Good rule of thumb, but you may find yourself in the ditch anyway - you'll
need more stick and rudder as the plane slows during roll out. Hitting
the control stops while still doing 45-50 can make for an interesting day.
Bob 612e Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca>

Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 17:32:18
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel - tailwheel behavior?



You're right, Ben !

The upwind wing is down - sometimes this means a
2-pointer ! 25 KT at 90 degrees has been common.

That is the best way to tell IF you can land with a crosswind -
line up with the runway, lower the wing, add rudder to
keep straight .... if you can keep lined up, go ahead & land !
If not, you could probably land ACROSS the runway ...
into wind .... ;-)

My strongest crosswind landing was 38, gusting 47 MPH,
at 45+ degrees from the right - but that was in my Rebel on
amphibs --- THE easiest airplane in the world to land !! :-)
Still done with full flapperon....

The Rebel ailerons are very effective - you must remember
to always keep them in the correct position when taxiing !
Easiest way to remember is to pretend that the wind is blowing
on the top of the stick, and move the stick with the wind -
ie - tailwind from right rear, stick to front left ...

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Tuesday 06 May 2008 16:45, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
Garry, I'm curious if your heavy crosswind training was wheel landings
or 3-point. And Bob, I'm assuming 3-point in crosswind you are doing so
with upwind wing held low. In 20knots from the side and bleeding to
40knots airspeed, that must be quite a bank angle!

I felt my instructor, although maybe a great pilot, was a terrible
teacher. He was always behind what I was doing, and made a big deal out
of 'Don't let the tailwheel hit first!'. So on the first day I'd
release a little back pressure on the stick and end up bumping 2-3 times
between mains and tail with too much energy. By quirk in the schedule,
my second day was with the chief pilot and he said 'what the hell is he
talking about -- every single plane on this field (tail or tri) is
landed by bleeding off all energy till ideally the stick/yoke is all the
way back as it touches down. First time around with him and a few quiet
'...hold it off, ...keep holding it off', and 3-pointer greasers were
pretty much in the bag. -Ben
I also did my transition training in the 115 HP Citabria - the Rebel
compares very favorably with that. Our location in the foothills of
the western Rockies and a very capable instructor (now sadly deceased
from cancer) had me doing direct crosswind landings in gusty winds
above 25 knots in the Citabria. The Rebel is every bit as good and I
use it frequently at my home airport with nasty crosswinds. It doesn't
get any better than that.

Garry
068R


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robert

[rebel-builders] Rebel - tailwheel behavior?

Post by robert » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:38 pm

Not yet ... Life keeps getting in my way. Back on task, just finished the new Vans airbox install ... well, less a little more glass work on the lower cowl. Stay tuned .. hope to be flying soon.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca>

Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:25:36
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel - tailwheel behavior?



Good point, Bob !

A bit of brake might be needed to keep it straight near the
end of roll-out .... never run out of control on a Rebel... yet !

Hitting the stops IS <much> more likely in an Elite - been
through a ditch with one of those already !! Any feedback
on how your control setup mods worked out ??????

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 17:41, robert@montanasky.us wrote:
Good rule of thumb, but you may find yourself in the ditch anyway - you'll
need more stick and rudder as the plane slows during roll out. Hitting
the control stops while still doing 45-50 can make for an interesting day.
Bob 612e Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca>

Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 17:32:18
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel - tailwheel behavior?



You're right, Ben !

The upwind wing is down - sometimes this means a
2-pointer ! 25 KT at 90 degrees has been common.

That is the best way to tell IF you can land with a crosswind -
line up with the runway, lower the wing, add rudder to
keep straight .... if you can keep lined up, go ahead & land !
If not, you could probably land ACROSS the runway ...
into wind .... ;-)

My strongest crosswind landing was 38, gusting 47 MPH,
at 45+ degrees from the right - but that was in my Rebel on
amphibs --- THE easiest airplane in the world to land !! :-)
Still done with full flapperon....

The Rebel ailerons are very effective - you must remember
to always keep them in the correct position when taxiing !
Easiest way to remember is to pretend that the wind is blowing
on the top of the stick, and move the stick with the wind -
ie - tailwind from right rear, stick to front left ...

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Tuesday 06 May 2008 16:45, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
Garry, I'm curious if your heavy crosswind training was wheel landings
or 3-point. And Bob, I'm assuming 3-point in crosswind you are doing so
with upwind wing held low. In 20knots from the side and bleeding to
40knots airspeed, that must be quite a bank angle!

I felt my instructor, although maybe a great pilot, was a terrible
teacher. He was always behind what I was doing, and made a big deal out
of 'Don't let the tailwheel hit first!'. So on the first day I'd
release a little back pressure on the stick and end up bumping 2-3 times
between mains and tail with too much energy. By quirk in the schedule,
my second day was with the chief pilot and he said 'what the hell is he
talking about -- every single plane on this field (tail or tri) is
landed by bleeding off all energy till ideally the stick/yoke is all the
way back as it touches down. First time around with him and a few quiet
'...hold it off, ...keep holding it off', and 3-pointer greasers were
pretty much in the bag. -Ben
I also did my transition training in the 115 HP Citabria - the Rebel
compares very favorably with that. Our location in the foothills of
the western Rockies and a very capable instructor (now sadly deceased
from cancer) had me doing direct crosswind landings in gusty winds
above 25 knots in the Citabria. The Rebel is every bit as good and I
use it frequently at my home airport with nasty crosswinds. It doesn't
get any better than that.

Garry
068R


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