Bob,
Added my comments to yours. I think we both want the SR2500 project to
succeed, but we disagree on how to get there.
Gary Bataller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <
bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: murphy-rebel Digest for 6 Sep 2000
Gary,
Murphy has chosen a different route with their manuals. MANY
people complained that they could not/would not read blueprints to
build an airplane. Murphy chose to provide mostly finished parts, a
self-jigging design, and exploded view drawings, to help simplify
the building process.
I find it quite unbelievable that 'MANY' people complained about blueprints.
Where exactly did these people pop up? The blueprints are the heart of the
building project and provide the builder with the ability to check their
work, both dimensionally and perspective-wise. I believe Murphy has done a
fantastic job in providing a self-jigging design but the lack of blueprint
IS a big problem. I too have spoken to MANY people.
There IS another reason - PIRACY !! Several "clones" of
early Murphy designs (which DID have blueprints) have appeared on
the market in Italy and several former Soviet countries, for example.
The same has happened to others, like Zenair and Rans. There is little
that a manufacturer can do to protect his work in other countries ...
Granted, this could be a problem. How does Van's Aircraft handle this
though? They continue to provide the complete, fullsize plans with each
kit. In addition, anybody can buy a preview set of plans (which I have
done) which are smaller but completely accurate. If Murphy's solution to
this problem is to withold information from the builders, then so be it.
Murphy has always had a policy of giving price reductions to the
first 10 or 20 buyers of new designs, to get accelerated feedback on
customer needs/desires.
I was one of the initial buyers, but was never asked to provide any such
feedback. Sounds reasonable on paper, but it never happened with me.
However, I did send MANY unsolicitated comments on manual and kit problems
which I believe the Murphy people did incorporate. The comment on price
reductions for feedback is baloney.
The early buyers of the Super Rebel kits got a VERY SUBSTANTIAL
reduction in price in exchange for their acceptance that the manuals
and some parts were still under development, and that they agreed
to help the factory by providing feedback on the suggested improvements
to the manuals. Some builders have been very helpful and supportive ....
and all are quite certain that they will end up with a very satisfactory
airplane !!
I have serial #004 for the SR2500. I would appreciate it if Murphy would
send me a VERY SUBSTANTIAL check for the saving it appears I should have
earned. Hey, I paid the same price as everybody else. Eventually the price
went up on the kits, but then it went done again.
I never comment on the initial kit and manual problems. They were expected
and they were corrected. When I was shorted a large amount of items in the
final kit shipment, the factory took care of the problem, which I greatly
appreciated. My criticism is in the lack of blueprints! Don't cloud the
issue with some motherhood concerning price reductions. What is this, a
soapbox for Murphy?
(Having put over 50 hours on the factory Super in the last
month, flying around Ontario, Quebec, and back out to B.C., I can
tell you THIS IS ONE <GREAT> AIRPLANE !!! It is DEFINITELY the
bargain of the century in terms of price/performance !! )
I agree 1000% with you!!! I saw that the first time I got to fly in one at
Copperstate several years ago and it is confirmed everytime I have seen it
since (several Copperstates, Sun n Fun and Oshkosh). Whenever a potential
builder stops buy to see the project, I hope they walk away with the same
feeling. However, they probably also walk away knowing my feeling about the
lack of blueprints.
All of the aircraft manuals are continually being improved,
so, naturally, the Rebel manual, after 10 years of development, is
more refined than the Super Rebel manual, which is only about 4 years
old, but both are improving at a faster rate, as Tech Support gains
experience. The factory still needs positive feedback on ways to
improve things, and are most receptive. They are planning many more
photos, and would certainly appreciate any that you could submit that
you think would be helpful. (There are only 3 of them, and they have
over 1,500 builders to help, some daily, as well as trying to improve
the manuals !!) I'm sure they will thank you for the help !
I always try to give positive feedback to the factory. They ALWAYS provide
timely and accurate response. The manual is evolving and getting better (I
have about 6 versions at this point). I feel very strongly that the
blueprints need to be provided to legitimate builders, maybe after signed a
non-disclosure agreement.
....bobp
------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 09:11 PM 9/7/00 -0400, you wrote:
Mike,
The instructions are still a MAJOR problem in the Super Rebel kit. Very
frustrating! I would really appreciate it if Murphy would provide
full-size
blueprints (ala Van's Aircraft) and lots of photos and assembly drawings.
I've had several perspective SR2500 customers stop by and they are
somewhat
turned off by the lack of blueprints and photos. However, they do like
the
quality of the components.
I've recently purchased some SR2500 drawings from Gordon Hindle;
www.lynx.net/gordon
Thanks to Gordon, we actually have nice drawing of the SR2500. Why the
heck
isn't Murphy doing this?
----- Original Message -----
From: <
Mnleber@aol.com>
To: <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: murphy-rebel Digest for 6 Sep 2000
Mike Jones.
It is ever so refreshing to know I'm not the only one having trouble
getting information from the manual. The flaps and ailerons on REBEL are
tied together. You are right they really need something that includes
information detailing overall assembly so we can see how things work
together. I was having same problem with the elevator until I went up and
saw Waynes bird. Then it became clear. More information would probably
help
prevent a lot of mistakes and stress if we could see what kind of
tolerances
we could work with. Unfortunately I find the lack of dimensions on
drawings
somewhat disconcerting as it doesn't allow for double checking. It means
we
have to take a lot on faith and assume the manuals are correct. I guess
that's one very good reason for this forum. It has helped me a lot, if
for
no other reason to reduce the stress !!!
Mike Le Ber R683
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