The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm**

I used a surveyors transit to get mine perfect. The table is your wing jig
so any irregularities will be transfered. There will be hundreds of holes
in your table by the time you're done.

At 02:06 AM 3/25/2008 -0700, you wrote:

Good Morning Gents!

I finally got my wing bench (14 ft x 4 ft) built and it meets the

approval of the local group of homebuilders in terms of level and flat.
But how level and flat does it need to be? Should I go to the nth degree
of insanity with a laser in order to get it perfect or is a nice "passes
the diagonal string test" good enough?

Also, do I have to do any drilling into the table top itself? I am

debating whether to put a hardboard sacrificial top on it, or some quarter
inch BC plywood.

Thanks!
Rich
Rebel 806

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Drew

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm**

Hi Rich. Believe it or not, the table is not that critical. When you get
into the wing build you will see most of the time the spars are up on pieces
of 2x4. In fact usually only two across the wing width slightly longer then
the distance between the spars. I would screw these down to the table after
shimming so that they are parallel. The use of a digital level here is real
handy. It really does not matter if it is "level" as long as both are the
same. Even in the stab, fin and elevator construction, it is far more
important you are levelling the main spars to each other to maintain
flatness. As far as holes in the table - it will end up with lots, so a hard
surface is no good at all - only harder on drill bits. When I built my 1st
table I used the soft plywood from the kit crate as the final top surface.
Also did the same for table no 2 and 3. ( currently working on aircraft # 6
& 7)Although a nice flat table is helpful, especially for the small parts,
you still must check level on all larger items - again an investment in a
digital level is real helpful. With one of those you can accurately build in
a sand box - well almost. Bob J

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Dodson
Sent: March-25-08 5:06 AM
To: Rebel Listserve
Subject: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Good Morning Gents!

I finally got my wing bench (14 ft x 4 ft) built and it meets the approval
of the local group of homebuilders in terms of level and flat. But how
level and flat does it need to be? Should I go to the nth degree of
insanity with a laser in order to get it perfect or is a nice "passes the
diagonal string test" good enough?

Also, do I have to do any drilling into the table top itself? I am
debating whether to put a hardboard sacrificial top on it, or some quarter
inch BC plywood.

Thanks!
Rich
Rebel 806

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm**

Also just to add, I have a 50" straight and rigid piece of aluminum channel
that I put my digital level on, and it enables me to check longer fetches
of table or whatever else I'm leveling. In my wing building I shimmed and
re-leveled the wings many times over the phases of flipping wings right
side up or upside down and my flat table almost was irrelevant. I found
the flat table more beneficial in the first part of fuselage construction
when the aft section, then up to the carry-throughs stayed put for a long
time (*really* long in my case ;) ), and the no-twist table was the magic
for a no-twist fuselage.
-Ben

Hi Rich. Believe it or not, the table is not that critical. When you get
into the wing build you will see most of the time the spars are up on pieces
of 2x4. In fact usually only two across the wing width slightly longer then
the distance between the spars. I would screw these down to the table after
shimming so that they are parallel. The use of a digital level here is real
handy. It really does not matter if it is "level" as long as both are the
same. Even in the stab, fin and elevator construction, it is far more
important you are levelling the main spars to each other to maintain
flatness. As far as holes in the table - it will end up with lots, so a hard
surface is no good at all - only harder on drill bits. When I built my 1st
table I used the soft plywood from the kit crate as the final top surface.
Also did the same for table no 2 and 3. ( currently working on aircraft # 6
& 7)Although a nice flat table is helpful, especially for the small parts,
you still must check level on all larger items - again an investment in a
digital level is real helpful. With one of those you can accurately build in
a sand box - well almost. Bob J

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Dodson
Sent: March-25-08 5:06 AM
To: Rebel Listserve
Subject: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Good Morning Gents!

I finally got my wing bench (14 ft x 4 ft) built and it meets the approval
of the local group of homebuilders in terms of level and flat. But how
level and flat does it need to be? Should I go to the nth degree of
insanity with a laser in order to get it perfect or is a nice "passes the
diagonal string test" good enough?

Also, do I have to do any drilling into the table top itself? I am
debating whether to put a hardboard sacrificial top on it, or some quarter
inch BC plywood.

Thanks!
Rich
Rebel 806

---------------------------------
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm**

Well, I must say either I'm really lucky or most of what's been described so
far just isn't critical. I used an old fashioned 4-foot bubble level to
check my table and the bubble was pretty close to centered at most places on
the table that I checked but I wasn't obsessed with shimming that extra
millimeter to get it perfect. I used the same level to check for twist in
the wings before final riveting but again, not obsessed with digital
perfection. I just used milk bottles filled with water to keep the wing
from wiggling around when drilling. I used the same level with a 5/8 piece
of wood glued to it to set the dihedral as described in the manual. My
plane flies like it's on rails. I think the pre-drilled holes do a really
good job of keeping things straight and along with a low tech check to make
sure things aren't grossly out of wack before final drilling you're probably
going to be fine.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:32 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Also just to add, I have a 50" straight and rigid piece of aluminum channel
that I put my digital level on, and it enables me to check longer fetches
of table or whatever else I'm leveling. In my wing building I shimmed and
re-leveled the wings many times over the phases of flipping wings right
side up or upside down and my flat table almost was irrelevant. I found
the flat table more beneficial in the first part of fuselage construction
when the aft section, then up to the carry-throughs stayed put for a long
time (*really* long in my case ;) ), and the no-twist table was the magic
for a no-twist fuselage.
-Ben

Hi Rich. Believe it or not, the table is not that critical. When you get
into the wing build you will see most of the time the spars are up on

pieces

of 2x4. In fact usually only two across the wing width slightly longer

then

the distance between the spars. I would screw these down to the table

after

shimming so that they are parallel. The use of a digital level here is

real

handy. It really does not matter if it is "level" as long as both are the
same. Even in the stab, fin and elevator construction, it is far more
important you are levelling the main spars to each other to maintain
flatness. As far as holes in the table - it will end up with lots, so a

hard

surface is no good at all - only harder on drill bits. When I built my 1st
table I used the soft plywood from the kit crate as the final top surface.
Also did the same for table no 2 and 3. ( currently working on aircraft #

6

& 7)Although a nice flat table is helpful, especially for the small parts,
you still must check level on all larger items - again an investment in a
digital level is real helpful. With one of those you can accurately build

in

a sand box - well almost. Bob J

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Dodson
Sent: March-25-08 5:06 AM
To: Rebel Listserve
Subject: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Good Morning Gents!

I finally got my wing bench (14 ft x 4 ft) built and it meets the

approval

of the local group of homebuilders in terms of level and flat. But how
level and flat does it need to be? Should I go to the nth degree of
insanity with a laser in order to get it perfect or is a nice "passes the
diagonal string test" good enough?

Also, do I have to do any drilling into the table top itself? I am
debating whether to put a hardboard sacrificial top on it, or some quarter
inch BC plywood.

Thanks!
Rich
Rebel 806

---------------------------------
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm**

It is not difficult to be more accurate with a decent bubble level than
a digital. All the digitals that I've seen only have a resolution of 0.1
degree at best (.1 inch in 60 inches) and you have to cancel out the
accuracy errors etc. to approach that...
Digitals are quick and easy though.
Ken

Mike Kimball wrote:

Well, I must say either I'm really lucky or most of what's been described so
far just isn't critical. I used an old fashioned 4-foot bubble level to
check my table and the bubble was pretty close to centered at most places on
the table that I checked but I wasn't obsessed with shimming that extra
millimeter to get it perfect. I used the same level to check for twist in
the wings before final riveting but again, not obsessed with digital
perfection. I just used milk bottles filled with water to keep the wing
from wiggling around when drilling. I used the same level with a 5/8 piece
of wood glued to it to set the dihedral as described in the manual. My
plane flies like it's on rails. I think the pre-drilled holes do a really
good job of keeping things straight and along with a low tech check to make
sure things aren't grossly out of wack before final drilling you're probably
going to be fine.

Mike
044SR

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm**

Right on Mike: That is exactly how I built my first Rebel - bubble levelled
table and wing spars and piece of wood for the dihedral - and mine flew
hands off also. The digital level I speak of, I find is very convenient
doing comparison points and also use it sitting on a 4 ft level for larger
objects. Your input helps get my point across - that things really are not
that critical. Bob J

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: March-25-08 7:15 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Well, I must say either I'm really lucky or most of what's been described so
far just isn't critical. I used an old fashioned 4-foot bubble level to
check my table and the bubble was pretty close to centered at most places on
the table that I checked but I wasn't obsessed with shimming that extra
millimeter to get it perfect. I used the same level to check for twist in
the wings before final riveting but again, not obsessed with digital
perfection. I just used milk bottles filled with water to keep the wing
from wiggling around when drilling. I used the same level with a 5/8 piece
of wood glued to it to set the dihedral as described in the manual. My
plane flies like it's on rails. I think the pre-drilled holes do a really
good job of keeping things straight and along with a low tech check to make
sure things aren't grossly out of wack before final drilling you're probably
going to be fine.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:32 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Also just to add, I have a 50" straight and rigid piece of aluminum channel
that I put my digital level on, and it enables me to check longer fetches
of table or whatever else I'm leveling. In my wing building I shimmed and
re-leveled the wings many times over the phases of flipping wings right
side up or upside down and my flat table almost was irrelevant. I found
the flat table more beneficial in the first part of fuselage construction
when the aft section, then up to the carry-throughs stayed put for a long
time (*really* long in my case ;) ), and the no-twist table was the magic
for a no-twist fuselage.
-Ben

Hi Rich. Believe it or not, the table is not that critical. When you get
into the wing build you will see most of the time the spars are up on

pieces

of 2x4. In fact usually only two across the wing width slightly longer

then

the distance between the spars. I would screw these down to the table

after

shimming so that they are parallel. The use of a digital level here is

real

handy. It really does not matter if it is "level" as long as both are the
same. Even in the stab, fin and elevator construction, it is far more
important you are levelling the main spars to each other to maintain
flatness. As far as holes in the table - it will end up with lots, so a

hard

surface is no good at all - only harder on drill bits. When I built my 1st
table I used the soft plywood from the kit crate as the final top surface.
Also did the same for table no 2 and 3. ( currently working on aircraft #

6

& 7)Although a nice flat table is helpful, especially for the small parts,
you still must check level on all larger items - again an investment in a
digital level is real helpful. With one of those you can accurately build

in

a sand box - well almost. Bob J

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Dodson
Sent: March-25-08 5:06 AM
To: Rebel Listserve
Subject: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Good Morning Gents!

I finally got my wing bench (14 ft x 4 ft) built and it meets the

approval

of the local group of homebuilders in terms of level and flat. But how
level and flat does it need to be? Should I go to the nth degree of
insanity with a laser in order to get it perfect or is a nice "passes the
diagonal string test" good enough?

Also, do I have to do any drilling into the table top itself? I am
debating whether to put a hardboard sacrificial top on it, or some quarter
inch BC plywood.

Thanks!
Rich
Rebel 806

---------------------------------
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm**

FWIW I'm in agreement with the analog (bubble) level being fine. In fact I
roll my eyes at a presumed 'digital is better', sort of like 'it must be
right because it came from the computer'. But the digital is fast. Put it
on, read it, boom you're done. Move down the wing, check again, done. And
if you want to be persnickety, you can interpolate between 0.1 read-outs by
barely lifting one end and seeing how soon it increments within that lift
distance --- not that I ever do that! ;)

Got my cabin roof skin on and the 3/16 rivets all in on the top front carry
through gussets late last night. Hope that loud pop on the 3/16 rivets
didn't annoy too many neighbors. I went to bed dog tired ...need to find
some more coffee! Further digressing, I got out my seat frames and rails
last wknd looking ahead to floor channels. I looked for an hour trying to
find my rails -- if only I had looked at my inventory spreadsheet first
(Doh!) I was impressed with the quality of those seat frames.
-Ben

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm**

Yep. I wasn't intending to compare digitals against bubbles. Just saying
that all you need to do is take a little care, catch gross problems like the
rare skin with pre-punched holes not in the right place, and it'll come out
just fine. Of course, "measure twice, cut once" still applies.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
and Olga Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:50 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Right on Mike: That is exactly how I built my first Rebel - bubble levelled
table and wing spars and piece of wood for the dihedral - and mine flew
hands off also. The digital level I speak of, I find is very convenient
doing comparison points and also use it sitting on a 4 ft level for larger
objects. Your input helps get my point across - that things really are not
that critical. Bob J

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: March-25-08 7:15 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Well, I must say either I'm really lucky or most of what's been described so
far just isn't critical. I used an old fashioned 4-foot bubble level to
check my table and the bubble was pretty close to centered at most places on
the table that I checked but I wasn't obsessed with shimming that extra
millimeter to get it perfect. I used the same level to check for twist in
the wings before final riveting but again, not obsessed with digital
perfection. I just used milk bottles filled with water to keep the wing
from wiggling around when drilling. I used the same level with a 5/8 piece
of wood glued to it to set the dihedral as described in the manual. My
plane flies like it's on rails. I think the pre-drilled holes do a really
good job of keeping things straight and along with a low tech check to make
sure things aren't grossly out of wack before final drilling you're probably
going to be fine.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:32 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Also just to add, I have a 50" straight and rigid piece of aluminum channel
that I put my digital level on, and it enables me to check longer fetches
of table or whatever else I'm leveling. In my wing building I shimmed and
re-leveled the wings many times over the phases of flipping wings right
side up or upside down and my flat table almost was irrelevant. I found
the flat table more beneficial in the first part of fuselage construction
when the aft section, then up to the carry-throughs stayed put for a long
time (*really* long in my case ;) ), and the no-twist table was the magic
for a no-twist fuselage.
-Ben

Hi Rich. Believe it or not, the table is not that critical. When you get
into the wing build you will see most of the time the spars are up on

pieces

of 2x4. In fact usually only two across the wing width slightly longer

then

the distance between the spars. I would screw these down to the table

after

shimming so that they are parallel. The use of a digital level here is

real

handy. It really does not matter if it is "level" as long as both are the
same. Even in the stab, fin and elevator construction, it is far more
important you are levelling the main spars to each other to maintain
flatness. As far as holes in the table - it will end up with lots, so a

hard

surface is no good at all - only harder on drill bits. When I built my 1st
table I used the soft plywood from the kit crate as the final top surface.
Also did the same for table no 2 and 3. ( currently working on aircraft #

6

& 7)Although a nice flat table is helpful, especially for the small parts,
you still must check level on all larger items - again an investment in a
digital level is real helpful. With one of those you can accurately build

in

a sand box - well almost. Bob J

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Dodson
Sent: March-25-08 5:06 AM
To: Rebel Listserve
Subject: [rebel-builders] Wing Bench

Good Morning Gents!

I finally got my wing bench (14 ft x 4 ft) built and it meets the

approval

of the local group of homebuilders in terms of level and flat. But how
level and flat does it need to be? Should I go to the nth degree of
insanity with a laser in order to get it perfect or is a nice "passes the
diagonal string test" good enough?

Also, do I have to do any drilling into the table top itself? I am
debating whether to put a hardboard sacrificial top on it, or some quarter
inch BC plywood.

Thanks!
Rich
Rebel 806

---------------------------------
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