*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
murphy-rebel Digest for 30 Aug 2000
Topics covered in this issue include:
1: Re: Landing Gear
by
BILNEWKIRK@aol.com
2: SR2500 accident
by Mike Davis <
mike.davis@dcsol.com>
3: landing ligth bezel
by "Jones, Mike" <
MJones@HATCH.CA>
4: Re: landing ligth bezel
by
klehman@albedo.net
5: Re: Landing Gear
by Walter Klatt <
Walter.Klatt@home.com>
6: landing ligth bezel
by "Jones, Mike" <
MJones@HATCH.CA>
7: potential new club member needs help
by "Paul Irvine" <
pi@paclink.net>
8: pitot tubes
by "Jones, Mike" <
MJones@HATCH.CA>
9: Re: pitot tubes
by David Qualley <
dqualley@home.com>
10: pitot tubes
by "Jones, Mike" <
MJones@HATCH.CA>
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1 Message:0001 1
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From:
BILNEWKIRK@aol.com
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
To:
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
800 x 6 tires run at 12 lbs pressure made a major improvement in my landings
- at least they cover up the bad ones.
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2 Message:0002 2
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To:
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
From: Mike Davis <
mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Subject: SR2500 accident
I always hate seeing something like this, especially when someone is hurt
or killed. I thought since a lot of builders know each other I'd pass this on.
Mike
On August 11, 2000, at 1907 hours Pacific daylight time, a Barclay/Vincent
Murphy SR 2500, N24VW, struck a standpipe while attempting to land on an
access road near Bakersfield, California. The amateur-built airplane, owned
and operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91, was
destroyed in a postimpact fire. The pilot and two passengers sustained
serious injuries and a third passenger was fatally injured. Visual
meteorological conditions prevailed for the personal local flight that had
departed from a dirt airstrip adjacent to the access road at an unknown
time. A witness to the accident reported that the airplane was attempting
to land at his dirt airstrip. He did not hear the engine running, but could
see that the propeller was turning. He indicated that the airplane seemed
too high to land at the dirt strip, and it continued down the dirt access
road, and struck an irrigation standpipe.
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3 Message:0003 3
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From: "Jones, Mike" <
MJones@HATCH.CA>
To: "'
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com'" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: landing ligth bezel
Hi all
Just got a landing light kit made by Trevor from Murphy and am in need of
tool to make a sheet metal bezel for it.
Can by a hand edge setter from US Tool Supply but seem to recal some
builders talking about a homemade version???
Mike#007
EOM
NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be confidential
and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message
you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any
action with respect to it. If you have received this message in error
please notify HATCH immediately via mailto:
MailAdmin@hatch.ca (
MailAdmin@hatch.ca).
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4 Message:0004 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
klehman@albedo.net
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: landing ligth bezel
Hi Mike
The NW Rebel site had photos of making a edge flanger for putting a 1 or
2 degree bend on the edge of sheet aluminum if that is what you need.
Believe they use nylon rollers from a shower door or something. Try
photo 4, 5, and 6 at
http://beta.content.communities.msn.com ... Message=48
Otherwise I prefer the Avery one that uses about a 3" disk of 1/2" thick
aluminum for a handle. It is much easier to control.
I can't imagine why you'd want the US Tool TP549 (hand edge setter) if
that is what you are looking at. Something like their TP326 is what I'm
talking about above.
I'm about 14 mi North of Milton if you need access to rollers. The
rollers will let you match the leading edge contour but it has to be
done before you cut the hole out and the aluminum needs to be about 3"
too long on top and on the bottom since the rollers don't do anything to
the first and last bit of metal that you feed. A wood or cardboard
cross-section template of the leading edge is very helpful.
Ken
"Jones, Mike" wrote:
Hi all
Just got a landing light kit made by Trevor from Murphy and am in need of
tool to make a sheet metal bezel for it.
Can by a hand edge setter from US Tool Supply but seem to recal some
builders talking about a homemade version???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Message:0005 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Walter Klatt <
Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
--------------724B94387DD0B72CFCF24E05
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
OK, Wayne, if you can do that with a 9.66 empty C of G, then I have to
conclude it is just technique and practice with me. My elevator and
cables are fine. Like I said, sometimes I surprise myself and get a real
good one, but I'm not consistent. Also, lately, I have had to contend
with hot days and hot air rising off the pavement and/or gusty 10 KT
cross winds. When you are trying to keep your plane straight and your up
wind wing down, it's not always easy to get that flare just right and
pull back on the stick long enough to keep those mains from touching
early.
Again with a passenger and lots of weight or no flaps I seem to do
better. Also, I have landed on grass and it's a lot easier, too. I still
think my biggest problem is speed. I was flying Piper Cherokees just
before the Rebel, and I still have that strong instinct that doesn't let
me slow it down enough on short final.
"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
Walter and Mr. Yarnell (didn't sign off your mail so don't know the
name) My personal rebels empty C of G is 9.66 inches aft of datum and
I can land on my tailwheel with the mains 3 feet off the ground! (must
carry power so you don't smack it down doing silling things like this
to your plane though). I also have the 6.00 x 6 tires on mine at 20
psi. Just a note that the straight ribbed 6.00 x 6 tires are easier to
control on pavement than those DICO 8.00 x 6 turf tires with the wavy
ribs. I have over 300 hours in Rebels (over 500 in tail draggers) and
my landings are not always perfect either! Have you both checked that
you have a minimum of 28 degrees of up elevator????? Make sure your
elevator cables are not too loose so even though you have the travel,
the air pressure forces it back 10 degrees or so while holding full
aft stick. This is what I found on Charles Dixons! Lots of travel but
cable so loose if you held full aft stick you could push the elevator
down about 8 degrees. It is either that or you are not bring the stick
all the way back to get a full stall landing. If you can get it slowed
down a bit more and possibly carry a very small amount of power while
you hover along the runway, just slowly bring the stick full aft and
it should settle down on all 3 wheels at the same time. Hope that
might help you out (or down)Wayne G. O'Sheawww.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From:Walter Klatt
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
What is your empty C of G at? I have been going through the
same challenge with my Rebel, and have just over 27 hours on
it, but also can't land it properly. Every once in a while I
get a real good one, (maybe one of four), but most times the
main wheels touch early, and then you get the bounce up. I
think that my problem is not getting my speed low enough (65
- 70 on final and 60 over threshold with full flaps), and I
float too long about a foot off the runway. Then it suddenly
sinks, and the mains touch before the tail wheel unless I'm
quick enough to catch it and keep pulling back to hold them
off to the end. I could try the initial flare higher off the
runway, which would give me more time to catch the sudden
sink, but fear dropping it from too high up and bending
something.
I was doing better with the tail wheel instructor,
especially with full fuel, and in fact do my best landings
now at gross weight. Hence, I suspect my C of G. Currently,
my empty weight is at 10.67 with an O320 and battery up
front.
Anyway, I would also be interested in some advice here from
the long time Rebel pilots.
Yarnell Family wrote:
I am another of those people who have been lurking the
Murphy list without contributing so here goes more
questions than answers. My Rebel is number 298 it has an
o320 and bungee gear firewall back Sensenich prop etc.
etc. I met Al Colburn at Oshkosh we corresponded several
times as his schedule was a little ahead of me. Good to
see his plane go to such an enterprising fellow as Charles
Dixon. I have about 50 hours on my plane and it is a great
joy in flight but I am struggling mightily with my
landings. I am a student pilot converted from ultralights
my instructor is a high time tailwheel pilot. My
instructor is able to make adequate landings but even his
are seldom a thing of beauty. I was wondering if anyone
has a suggestion on what modifications make the biggest
improvement in the Rebels hard surface landing ability. I
plan on taking my check ride in the rebel I built but I
hate to bounce some flight examiner down the runway three
or four times every time I land. My bungees are tight per
Murphy my tires are those dinky little things that came
with the kit I have already ordered a set of 800 6s so
what is next besides practice practice practice. I wonder
if charles would mind listing contact sources for the
spring gear struts Adapter rings and gear pivot mod I
searched the archives and didnt come up with addresses or
phone numbers. Am I on the right track in thinking that a
looser landing gear will make for easier hard surface
landings. I understand the bungees should not be loosened
without modifying the pivot points. I have been running
14lbs tire pressure now wonder what is the minimum for the
bigger tires. Any comments will be greatly appreciated.
--------------724B94387DD0B72CFCF24E05
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
OK, Wayne, if you can do that with a 9.66 empty C of G, then I have to
conclude it is just technique and practice with me. My elevator and cables
are fine. Like I said, sometimes I surprise myself and get a real good
one, but I'm not consistent. Also, lately, I have had to contend with hot
days and hot air rising off the pavement and/or gusty 10 KT cross winds.
When you are trying to keep your plane straight and your up wind wing down,
it's not always easy to get that flare just right and pull back on
the stick long enough to keep those mains from touching early.
<p>Again with a passenger and lots of weight or no flaps I seem to do better.
Also, I have landed on grass and it's a lot easier, too. I still think
my biggest problem is speed. I was flying Piper Cherokees just before the
Rebel, and I still have that strong instinct that doesn't let me slow it
down enough on short final.
<br>
<p>"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> <font size=-1>Walter and Mr. Yarnell (didn't
sign off your mail so don't know the name)</font> <font size=-1>My personal
rebels empty C of G is 9.66 inches aft of datum and I can land on my tailwheel
with the mains 3 feet off the ground! (must carry power so you don't smack
it down doing silling things like this to your plane though). I also have
the 6.00 x 6 tires on mine at 20 psi. Just a note that the straight ribbed
6.00 x 6 tires are easier to control on pavement than those DICO 8.00 x
6 turf tires with the wavy ribs. I have over 300 hours in Rebels (over
500 in tail draggers) and my landings are not always perfect either! Have
you both checked that you have a minimum of 28 degrees of up elevator?????
Make sure your elevator cables are not too loose so even though you have
the travel, the air pressure forces it back 10 degrees or so while holding
full aft stick. This is what I found on Charles Dixons! Lots of travel
but cable so loose if you held full aft stick you could push the elevator
down about 8 degrees. It is either that or you are not bring the stick
all the way back to get a full stall landing. If you can get it slowed
down a bit more and possibly carry a very small amount of power while you
hover along the runway, just slowly bring the stick full aft and it should
settle down on all 3 wheels at the same time.</font> <font size=-1>Hope
that might help you out (or down)Wayne G. O'Shea<a href="
http://www.irishfield.on.ca">www.irishfield.on.ca</a></font>
<blockquote dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b><a href="mailto:
Walter.Klatt@home.com (
Walter.Klatt@home.com)" title="
Walter.Klatt@home.com">Walter
Klatt</a></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)" title="
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com">(Murphy
Rebel Builders List)</a></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 29, 2000 9:32
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: Landing Gear</div>
What is your empty C of G at? I have been going through the same
challenge with my Rebel, and have just over 27 hours on it, but also can't
land it properly. Every once in a while I get a real good one, (maybe one
of four), but most times the main wheels touch early, and then you get
the bounce up. I think that my problem is not getting my speed low enough
(65 - 70 on final and 60 over threshold with full flaps), and I float too
long about a foot off the runway. Then it suddenly sinks, and the mains
touch before the tail wheel unless I'm quick enough to catch it and keep
pulling back to hold them off to the end. I could try the initial flare
higher off the runway, which would give me more time to catch the sudden
sink, but fear dropping it from too high up and bending something.
<p>I was doing better with the tail wheel instructor, especially with full
fuel, and in fact do my best landings now at gross weight. Hence, I suspect
my C of G. Currently, my empty weight is at 10.67 with an O320 and battery
up front.
<p>Anyway, I would also be interested in some advice here from the long
time Rebel pilots.
<p>Yarnell Family wrote:
<blockquote TYPE="CITE"><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I
am another of those people who have been lurking the Murphy list without
contributing so here goes more questions than answers. My Rebel is number
298 it has an o320 and bungee gear firewall back Sensenich prop etc. etc.
I met Al Colburn at Oshkosh we corresponded several times as his
schedule was a little ahead of me. Good to see his plane go to such an
enterprising fellow as Charles Dixon. I have about 50 hours on my plane
and it is a great joy in flight but I am struggling mightily with my landings.
I am a student pilot converted from ultralights my instructor is a high
time tailwheel pilot. My instructor is able to make adequate landings but
even his are seldom a thing of beauty. I was wondering if anyone has a
suggestion on what modifications make the biggest improvement in the Rebels
hard surface landing ability. I plan on taking my check ride in the rebel
I built but I hate to bounce some flight examiner down the runway three
or four times every time I land. My bungees are tight per Murphy my tires
are those dinky little things that came with the kit I have already ordered
a set of 800 6s so what is next besides practice practice practice. I wonder
if charles would mind listing contact sources for the spring gear struts
Adapter rings and gear pivot mod I searched the archives and didnt come
up with addresses or phone numbers. Am I on the right track in thinking
that a looser landing gear will make for easier hard surface landings.
I understand the bungees should not be loosened without modifying the pivot
points. I have been running 14lbs tire pressure now wonder what is the
minimum for the bigger tires. Any comments will be greatly appreciated.</font></font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
--------------724B94387DD0B72CFCF24E05--
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6 Message:0006 6
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Joel Jacobs" <
jj@netexp.net>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: landing ligth bezel
Hi,
I made an edge setter out of a couple shower door rollers bolted to a piece
of aluminum plate. The rollers have a nylon edge that does not mare the
sheet - seems to be working ok for me.
Joel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Mike" <
MJones@HATCH.CA>
To: <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 8:00 AM
Subject: landing ligth bezel
Hi all
Just got a landing light kit made by Trevor from Murphy and am in need of
tool to make a sheet metal bezel for it.
Can by a hand edge setter from US Tool Supply but seem to recal some
builders talking about a homemade version???
Mike#007
EOM
NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be
confidential
and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message
you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any
action with respect to it. If you have received this message in error
please notify HATCH immediately via mailto:
MailAdmin@hatch.ca (
MailAdmin@hatch.ca).
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Message:0007 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Irvine" <
pi@paclink.net>
To: <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: potential new club member needs help
Hello everyone. My name is Paul Irvine and I'm new to the list. Although
I've pondered the thought for the past twenty years or so I've only been
earnestly studying the prospects of building my own airplane for about the
past six months. Right at the top of my list is the Murphy Rebel so you know
already what type of airplane I'm interested in building. I've also been
studying other makes such as the GlasStar, Avid, Kitfox, Bushcaddy,
Northstar, Zenith and even the Barrows Bearhawk but the Murphy has remained
my favored choice of all of these "sight unseen" selections based solely on
what I've read and pictures I've seen.
I was planning to actually see and touch the factory Elite at the EAA Golden
West Fly-in this September 8-10 at Sacramento but when I checked the
company's posted schedule on the website I noticed that it isn't going to be
there (although the SR2500 will be) This is disappointing since it's
probably the only chance I'll have to see one this year. Even if I do decide
on the Rebel I still haven't decided between the basic Rebel or the Elite
although at this time I am leaning towards the basic Rebel.
Anyway, to get to the point. Does anyone on this list know if there will be
any Rebels or Elites at the fly-in? I live in Antioch CA which is about 40
mi East of San Francisco so my second question is are there any builders in
my general area that would be interested in showing me their project some
Saturday afternoon in the not too distant future? I'd like to make up my
mind within the next 3 months or so and get started on my own project early
next year if possible.
Also, if anyone wants to try and convince me either way on the Rebel/Elite
issue or the merits of split flap/aileron vs flaperon please do so. I'm all
ears.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Paul Irvine
Antioch California
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Message:0008 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jones, Mike" <
MJones@HATCH.CA>
To: "'
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com'" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: pitot tubes
Does any one knoe of sources of pitot tubes other than murphy and aircraft
spruce, maybe used ones ???
Mike#007
EOM
NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be confidential
and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message
you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any
action with respect to it. If you have received this message in error
please notify HATCH immediately via mailto:
MailAdmin@hatch.ca (
MailAdmin@hatch.ca).
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9 Message:0009 9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Qualley <
dqualley@home.com>
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: pitot tubes
Hi Mike..
I have a Pitot Tube up for auction on Ebay right now..
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dl ... =422050620
For anyone else who's interested I also have some 3/16" nutplates..
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dl ... =422722167
Dave
#057SR
"Jones, Mike" wrote:
Does any one knoe of sources of pitot tubes other than murphy and aircraft
spruce, maybe used ones ???
Mike#007
EOM
NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be confidential
and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message
you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any
action with respect to it. If you have received this message in error
please notify HATCH immediately via mailto:
MailAdmin@hatch.ca (
MailAdmin@hatch.ca).
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Message:0010 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <
oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: pitot tubes
Mike, if you are not worried about having a heated one, you can easily make
one for about $5. On Howards we installed a stainless steel tube (5/16"
brake line) at the2nd last rib of the wing. Drilled a hole thru leading edge
and front spar for tube, with the tube being affixed to a 90 degree bulkhead
fitting mounted to the centre web of the leading edge rib. Tube sticks out
of the L.Edge about a foot and has automatic pitot cover on it (like you
find on a V.F.R. Cessna 150). The little pitot cover is the most expensive
part of the whole installation! Works great and it is out in nice clean
undisturbed air and not effected by prop blast. Was done as a fluke as
Howard never installed a pitot line prior to closing his wings (He was used
to Zenair's methods of fabrication I guess!). We ran the pitot line through
the small "D" in front of the front spar(smeared RTV sealant on it here and
there so it would stick and not bounce around) and then it just turns 180
degrees (inside the wing tip) to go into the leading edge rib area and
attaches to the tube bulkhead fitting.
The other nice thing about it being that far out on the wing is that even on
wheels the tube is high enough that most people do not bump into it!
Blue skies and tailwinds,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Mike" <
MJones@HATCH.CA>
To: <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 3:50 PM
Subject: pitot tubes
Does any one knoe of sources of pitot tubes other than murphy and aircraft
spruce, maybe used ones ???
Mike#007
EOM
NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be
confidential
and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message
you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any
action with respect to it. If you have received this message in error
please notify HATCH immediately via mailto:
MailAdmin@hatch.ca (
MailAdmin@hatch.ca).
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