The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 pm**

2 cents worth:

Maybe take a rolling pin and iron the creases flat? Kind of like chicken
soup. Wouldn't hurt to try.

Tim Hickey
R808

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Walls" <snowyrvr@mtaonline.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:43 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts

Hi all,

As you might have read, I have been having some trouble putting the fin
together. I just posted three photos of the skins in the archives under
Rebel Rudder. One builder who saw the pictures suggested that possibly
the
creases in the skins were way big and would make it difficult to position
the ribs accurately. They are so deep that it's very difficult to flatten
them out. Anyone have an opinion one way or the other? My rudder and
elevator skins have a much less pronounced crease.

Also, both my skins are now totally drilled out to #30. Is that going to
make it hard to get all the parts and pieces right when I build the fin
again? I'll be starting with all new spars, ribs, etc. I can get new
ones
but they are $144 ea.

Thanks, Craig

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 pm**

Craig
If u have a brake handy, just put the sheet in the hold down jaw and set jaw down to squeeze the creases. Try a little at a time until there is just a supporting crease left in the skin.

Steve W > From: tjhickey@iowatelecom.net> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:46:56 -0600> > 2 cents worth:> > Maybe take a rolling pin and iron the creases flat? Kind of like chicken > soup. Wouldn't hurt to try.> > Tim Hickey> R808> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Walls" <snowyrvr@mtaonline.net>> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:43 PM> Subject: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts> > > > Hi all,> >> >> >> > As you might have read, I have been having some trouble putting the fin> > together. I just posted three photos of the skins in the archives under> > Rebel Rudder. One builder who saw the pictures suggested that possibly > > the> > creases in the skins were way big and would make it difficult to position> > the ribs accurately. They are so deep that it's very difficult to flatten> > them out. Anyone have an opinion one way or the other? My rudder and> > elev
ator skins have a much
l
ess pronounced crease.> >> >> >> > Also, both my skins are now totally drilled out to #30. Is that going to> > make it hard to get all the parts and pieces right when I build the fin> > again? I'll be starting with all new spars, ribs, etc. I can get new > > ones> > but they are $144 ea.> >> > Thanks, Craig> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -----------------------------------------------------------------> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> > username "rebel" password "builder"> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> > -----------------------------------------------------------------> >> >> >> > > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> username "rebel" password "builder"> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> ---------------------
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 pm**

Thanks to all of you who have given input on the fin challenge. My only
concern with reusing the skins is that they are both drilled to #30 so hole
consistency as I rebuild might be another headache. Thanks again. CW

Original Message:
-----------------
From: steve whitenect srwhitenect@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:42:14 +0000
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts

Craig
If u have a brake handy, just put the sheet in the hold down jaw and set
jaw down to squeeze the creases. Try a little at a time until there is just
a supporting crease left in the skin.

Steve W > From: tjhickey@iowatelecom.net> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007
12:46:56 -0600> > 2 cents worth:> > Maybe take a rolling pin and iron the
creases flat? Kind of like chicken > soup. Wouldn't hurt to try.> > Tim
Hickey> R808> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Walls"
<snowyrvr@mtaonline.net>> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>> Sent: Saturday,
December 08, 2007 8:43 PM> Subject: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts>

Hi all,> >> >> >> > As you might have read, I have been having some

trouble putting the fin> > together. I just posted three photos of the
skins in the archives under> > Rebel Rudder. One builder who saw the
pictures suggested that possibly > > the> > creases in the skins were way
big and would make it difficult to position> > the ribs accurately. They
are so deep that it's very difficult to flatten> > them out. Anyone have an
opinion one way or the other? My rudder an
d> > elevator skins have a much
l
ess pronounced crease.> >> >> >> > Also, both my skins are now totally
drilled out to #30. Is that going to> > make it hard to get all the parts
and pieces right when I build the fin> > again? I'll be starting with all
new spars, ribs, etc. I can get new > > ones> > but they are $144 ea.> >> >
Thanks, Craig> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>

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archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> username "rebel"
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 pm**

Don't forget that you can always go up one size rivet (to 5/32) if you mess up a hole slightly. You just need to be wary of keeping the proper edge distance. The difference in edge distance required between a 1/8 rivet and a 5/32 rivet is only 1/16 of an inch and I believe MAM builds in that fudge factor in the (probably true) belief that not all builders drill a perfect hole every time. Rivet charts will give you the numbers you need but one chart I looked at showed a #30 drill as .1285 in with a maximum hole size for a 1/8 rivet as .138 inch. The same chart shows minimum and maximum hole sizes for 5/32 rivets as .161 and .166 in. Differenet rivet manufacturers may have different specifications.

From: snowyrvr@mtaonline.net> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:45:41 -0500> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts> > Thanks to all of you who have given input on the fin challenge. My only> concern with reusing the skins is that they are both drilled to #30 so hole> consistency as I rebuild might be another headache. Thanks again. CW> > Original Message:> -----------------> From: steve whitenect srwhitenect@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:42:14 +0000> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts> > > > Craig> If u have a brake handy, just put the sheet in the hold down jaw and set> jaw down to squeeze the creases. Try a little at a time until there is just> a supporting crease left in the skin.> > Steve W > From: tjhickey@iowatelecom.net> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com>> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007> 12:46:56 -0600> > 2 cents worth:> > Maybe take a rolling pin an

d iron the> creases fla
t
? Kind of like chicken > soup. Wouldn't hurt to try.> > Tim> Hickey> R808> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Walls"> <snowyrvr@mtaonline.net>> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>> Sent: Saturday,> December 08, 2007 8:43 PM> Subject: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts>> > > > Hi all,> >> >> >> > As you might have read, I have been having some> trouble putting the fin> > together. I just posted three photos of the> skins in the archives under> > Rebel Rudder. One builder who saw the> pictures suggested that possibly > > the> > creases in the skins were way> big and would make it difficult to position> > the ribs accurately. They> are so deep that it's very difficult to flatten> > them out. Anyone have an> opinion one way or the other? My rudder an> d> > elevator skins have a much > l> ess pronounced crease.> >> >> >> > Also, both my skins are now totally> drilled out to #30. Is that going to> > make it hard to get all the parts> and pieces right when I build the fin> > again
? I'll be starting with

all> new spars, ribs, etc. I can get new > > ones> > but they are $144 ea.> >> >> Thanks, Craig> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > -----------------------------------------------------------------> >> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> > username "rebel"> password "builder"> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> >> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------> >> >> >>> > > > > > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------> List> archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> username "rebel"> password "builder"> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> List> administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> ------------> --------------------------------> -> --------------------> > > > _________________________________________________________________> Introducing the City @ Live! Take a tour!> http://getyourliveid.ca/?icid=LIVEI
DENCA006> > > > -------
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---------------------------------------------------------> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> username "rebel" password "builder"> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> -----------------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------> mail2web - Check your email from the web at> http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web> > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> username "rebel" password "builder"> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> -----------------------------------------------------------------> > >
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 pm**

On thicker aluminum they drill OK with a #30 135 degree split point
drill bit.
Might be worth trying a thin sheet of cardboard under the skin to keep
the bit centered so as not to make an oval hole in the skin?
Might be easier to make new skins.
Ken

snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote:

Thanks to all of you who have given input on the fin challenge. My only
concern with reusing the skins is that they are both drilled to #30 so hole
consistency as I rebuild might be another headache. Thanks again. CW

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 pm**

I had to remake a whole wing skin that was already drilled to #30. I got a 12' sheet of .020 from Aircraft Spruce, and used thin cardboard between the sheets as Ken suggests. It worked fine, with only minor alignment problems. Use a brand new bit, and make sure you are holding the drill perpendicular. A fin skin would be no problem to make. The thing is, if you are redoing it because the fin was not in alignment, then using the original skin as a template might just transfer the misalignment to the new skin.
Jesse

Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:31:13 -0500
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Question on Fin Parts

On thicker aluminum they drill OK with a #30 135 degree split point
drill bit.
Might be worth trying a thin sheet of cardboard under the skin to keep
the bit centered so as not to make an oval hole in the skin?
Might be easier to make new skins.
Ken

snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote:

Thanks to all of you who have given input on the fin challenge. My only
concern with reusing the skins is that they are both drilled to #30 so hole
consistency as I rebuild might be another headache. Thanks again. CW

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 pm**

Craig
I too was wondering if you could make new skins from sheet stock. Putting
new creases in would be cake. The problem might be if like Jesse says, you
need to locate the holes from the old skins with overdone creases. Could
you locate the holes from the ribs, drilling from inside out, one side at a
time? I assume that it is holes already in the ribs now that dictate where
the holes need to be in the skins.
-Ben

I had to remake a whole wing skin that was already drilled to #30. I got

a 12' sheet of .020 from Aircraft Spruce, and used thin cardboard between
the sheets as Ken suggests. It worked fine, with only minor alignment
problems. Use a brand new bit, and make sure you are holding the drill
perpendicular. A fin skin would be no problem to make. The thing is, if you
are redoing it because the fin was not in alignment, then using the
original skin as a template might just transfer the misalignment to the new
skin.

Jesse

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