The Murphy Builders Site

Charlie, after that stuff cures, I don't think anything short of pulling them off by hand will dislodge them.

Steve W > From: charlie@troyairpark.com> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Subject: [rebel-builders] Proseal technique> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:40:10 -0500> > I have just finished assembling the bottom tank cover to my wing with > Proseal. I am using Murphy's technique of syringes to mix and apply the > Proseal. After cleaning the surfaces with Acetone and scotch bright pads, a > bead of proseal was applied to both pieces, and then uniformly spread with a > stiff brush. The parts were pressed together, clecos were inserted and then > the tank rivets are installed. When I turned the wing over I noticed that > each rivet as it was inserted in to the holes had carried the Proseal that > had previously filled that hole and was attached to the tip of the rivet. > These little beads are easily dealt with as long as one has access to the > inside of the tank. What happens to them when the top tank cover is attached > and they can't be reached? Is there a technique I should be using to > prevent
the forming of these b
e
ads?> > I realize the Finger Screen would prevent them from enter the fuel lines if > they detached but they could interfere with the proper operation of the > water drain.> > Charlie E. 802R> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> username "rebel" password "builder"> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> -----------------------------------------------------------------> > >
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Hi Charlie !

I agree with Steve - it will take a lot to remove those globs !!
You are dipping the rivets in proseal before inserting ...
just as you would dip the regular ones going into epoxy primer.

One caution - be sure to keep a set of clecoes for
use with proseal --- in a jar of acetone !! Several builders
have had leaks around rivets caused by the oil on clecoes !!
Storing them in acetone will keep them clean ....

You might want to run a capping coating of proseal
over the bases of those rivets anyway .... some use
the 'brushable' version for this final seal.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 16 October 2007 21:40, Charlie Eubanks wrote:

I have just finished assembling the bottom tank cover to my wing with
Proseal. I am using Murphy's technique of syringes to mix and apply the
Proseal. After cleaning the surfaces with Acetone and scotch bright pads, a
bead of proseal was applied to both pieces, and then uniformly spread with
a stiff brush. The parts were pressed together, clecos were inserted and
then the tank rivets are installed. When I turned the wing over I noticed
that each rivet as it was inserted in to the holes had carried the Proseal
that had previously filled that hole and was attached to the tip of the
rivet. These little beads are easily dealt with as long as one has access
to the inside of the tank. What happens to them when the top tank cover is
attached and they can't be reached? Is there a technique I should be using
to prevent the forming of these beads?

I realize the Finger Screen would prevent them from enter the fuel lines if
they detached but they could interfere with the proper operation of the
water drain.

Charlie E. 802R

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Steve W. and Bob P.

Thanks for the reply.

You are probly right but I had already pulled them off. Of course I put a
healthy coat of proseal over them. I am thinking, when I do the top tank
cover I will coat the top and the underneath of the ribs and spars, align
the tank cover then push an awl through the rivet holes before I insert the
rivet dipped in proseal. May be this will prevent the bead form forming on
the rivet. And may be this is just a lot of "extra work"?

Charlie E.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Proseal technique

Hi Charlie !

I agree with Steve - it will take a lot to remove those globs !!
You are dipping the rivets in proseal before inserting ...
just as you would dip the regular ones going into epoxy primer.

One caution - be sure to keep a set of clecoes for
use with proseal --- in a jar of acetone !! Several builders
have had leaks around rivets caused by the oil on clecoes !!
Storing them in acetone will keep them clean ....

You might want to run a capping coating of proseal
over the bases of those rivets anyway .... some use
the 'brushable' version for this final seal.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 16 October 2007 21:40, Charlie Eubanks wrote:

I have just finished assembling the bottom tank cover to my wing with
Proseal. I am using Murphy's technique of syringes to mix and apply the
Proseal. After cleaning the surfaces with Acetone and scotch bright pads,
a
bead of proseal was applied to both pieces, and then uniformly spread
with
a stiff brush. The parts were pressed together, clecos were inserted and
then the tank rivets are installed. When I turned the wing over I noticed
that each rivet as it was inserted in to the holes had carried the
Proseal
that had previously filled that hole and was attached to the tip of the
rivet. These little beads are easily dealt with as long as one has access
to the inside of the tank. What happens to them when the top tank cover
is
attached and they can't be reached? Is there a technique I should be
using
to prevent the forming of these beads?

I realize the Finger Screen would prevent them from enter the fuel lines
if
they detached but they could interfere with the proper operation of the
water drain.

Charlie E. 802R

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Charlie
The awl sounds like a good idea for eliminating some of the proseal glob. I
find an awl is a handy tool often anyway to pull holes into alignment. I
think I generally pushed the rivet into the hole slightly, then out, and
spun it a bit to assure the rivet was covered including under the "lid",
then finally back in. This also maybe prevented globs on the inside. I
don't think a glob that comes off would mess up the water drains. IIRC
those brass fittings unscrew if necessary anyway?
Ben/ 496R

Steve W. and Bob P.

Thanks for the reply.

You are probly right but I had already pulled them off. Of course I put a
healthy coat of proseal over them. I am thinking, when I do the top tank
cover I will coat the top and the underneath of the ribs and spars, align
the tank cover then push an awl through the rivet holes before I insert the
rivet dipped in proseal. May be this will prevent the bead form forming on
the rivet. And may be this is just a lot of "extra work"?

Charlie E.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Proseal technique

Hi Charlie !

I agree with Steve - it will take a lot to remove those globs !!
You are dipping the rivets in proseal before inserting ...
just as you would dip the regular ones going into epoxy primer.

One caution - be sure to keep a set of clecoes for
use with proseal --- in a jar of acetone !! Several builders
have had leaks around rivets caused by the oil on clecoes !!
Storing them in acetone will keep them clean ....

You might want to run a capping coating of proseal
over the bases of those rivets anyway .... some use
the 'brushable' version for this final seal.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 16 October 2007 21:40, Charlie Eubanks wrote:

I have just finished assembling the bottom tank cover to my wing with
Proseal. I am using Murphy's technique of syringes to mix and apply the
Proseal. After cleaning the surfaces with Acetone and scotch bright pads,
a
bead of proseal was applied to both pieces, and then uniformly spread
with
a stiff brush. The parts were pressed together, clecos were inserted and
then the tank rivets are installed. When I turned the wing over I noticed
that each rivet as it was inserted in to the holes had carried the
Proseal
that had previously filled that hole and was attached to the tip of the
rivet. These little beads are easily dealt with as long as one has access
to the inside of the tank. What happens to them when the top tank cover
is
attached and they can't be reached? Is there a technique I should be
using
to prevent the forming of these beads?

I realize the Finger Screen would prevent them from enter the fuel lines
if
they detached but they could interfere with the proper operation of the
water drain.

Charlie E. 802R

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Has any one tried thinning Pro-Seal to make it easier to spread?

In another life time while working for the red and white airline at LAX
we would add Toluol to get it to the consistency we needed to spread.
We did a lot of fuel tanks on 707's 747's L-1011's. after spreading the
stuff in place we used heat lamps to start the cure process and the
toluol would evaporate and cure. Usually we did not have the luxury of
waiting several days for the cure process, more like 12 hours and it was
off to the gate and fuel, and departure. It always worked and I can't
remember any problems from using it. Most often we used the B-1/2 (30
minuet working time) as opposed to B-2 (2 hr).

Pro-Seal was also used to seal around the windshields when we replaced
them. Thinning the sealant was about the only easy way to get it to
flow into the narrow groove.

Dick Wampach SR-108

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 10:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Proseal technique

Charlie
The awl sounds like a good idea for eliminating some of the proseal
glob. I
find an awl is a handy tool often anyway to pull holes into alignment.
I
think I generally pushed the rivet into the hole slightly, then out, and
spun it a bit to assure the rivet was covered including under the
"lid",
then finally back in. This also maybe prevented globs on the inside. I
don't think a glob that comes off would mess up the water drains. IIRC
those brass fittings unscrew if necessary anyway?
Ben/ 496R

Steve W. and Bob P.

Thanks for the reply.

You are probly right but I had already pulled them off. Of course I

put a

healthy coat of proseal over them. I am thinking, when I do the top

tank

cover I will coat the top and the underneath of the ribs and spars,

align

the tank cover then push an awl through the rivet holes before I

insert the

rivet dipped in proseal. May be this will prevent the bead form

forming on

the rivet. And may be this is just a lot of "extra work"?

Charlie E.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Proseal technique

Hi Charlie !

I agree with Steve - it will take a lot to remove those globs !!
You are dipping the rivets in proseal before inserting ...
just as you would dip the regular ones going into epoxy primer.

One caution - be sure to keep a set of clecoes for
use with proseal --- in a jar of acetone !! Several builders
have had leaks around rivets caused by the oil on clecoes !!
Storing them in acetone will keep them clean ....

You might want to run a capping coating of proseal
over the bases of those rivets anyway .... some use
the 'brushable' version for this final seal.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 16 October 2007 21:40, Charlie Eubanks wrote:

I have just finished assembling the bottom tank cover to my wing

with

Proseal. I am using Murphy's technique of syringes to mix and apply

the

Proseal. After cleaning the surfaces with Acetone and scotch bright

pads,

a
bead of proseal was applied to both pieces, and then uniformly

spread

with
a stiff brush. The parts were pressed together, clecos were

inserted and

then the tank rivets are installed. When I turned the wing over I

noticed

that each rivet as it was inserted in to the holes had carried the
Proseal
that had previously filled that hole and was attached to the tip of

the

rivet. These little beads are easily dealt with as long as one has

access

to the inside of the tank. What happens to them when the top tank

cover

is
attached and they can't be reached? Is there a technique I should

be

using
to prevent the forming of these beads?

I realize the Finger Screen would prevent them from enter the fuel

lines

if
they detached but they could interfere with the proper operation of

the

water drain.

Charlie E. 802R

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Hi Richard !

The manufacturer now specifically says "Do not thin ProSeal !"
Apparently there can be chemical changes that will show up
later ... not as strong a seal, deterioration, .... Suspect AvGas
and MoGas might be harder on it than Jet fuel, too ....

For brushing, there is a different spec. number of ProSeal -
we just call it "brushable" - it is about like honey, so a lot
easier to flow into tight areas. This stuff makes a great final
coating - and is also handy for leaky rivets -- just put a dab
on the outside of the rivet, stuff a shop vac hose into the filler
neck, LOOSELY, with room around it for airflow - you just want
to lower the pressure a bit so it sucks the proseal into the rivet.
Then turn it off, & wait for the ps to harden....

For our windshields, the manufacturer recommends using
Bostick 1100 sealant, in caulking gun tubes - it comes in several
colours, and is easy to work with. It stays flexible, and is VERY
low tack, so it makes for easy expansion & contraction of the
windshield, and easy removal ..... Some builders use other
adhesives - often the automotive type sealant on strips of tape...
The Bostick is readily available from builders supply shops,
and works well for side windows & skylights too.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 18 October 2007 04:56, Richard Wampach wrote:

Has any one tried thinning Pro-Seal to make it easier to spread?

In another life time while working for the red and white airline at LAX
we would add Toluol to get it to the consistency we needed to spread.
We did a lot of fuel tanks on 707's 747's L-1011's. after spreading the
stuff in place we used heat lamps to start the cure process and the
toluol would evaporate and cure. Usually we did not have the luxury of
waiting several days for the cure process, more like 12 hours and it was
off to the gate and fuel, and departure. It always worked and I can't
remember any problems from using it. Most often we used the B-1/2 (30
minuet working time) as opposed to B-2 (2 hr).

Pro-Seal was also used to seal around the windshields when we replaced
them. Thinning the sealant was about the only easy way to get it to
flow into the narrow groove.

Dick Wampach SR-108

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 10:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Proseal technique

Charlie
The awl sounds like a good idea for eliminating some of the proseal
glob. I
find an awl is a handy tool often anyway to pull holes into alignment.
I
think I generally pushed the rivet into the hole slightly, then out, and
spun it a bit to assure the rivet was covered including under the
"lid",
then finally back in. This also maybe prevented globs on the inside. I
don't think a glob that comes off would mess up the water drains. IIRC
those brass fittings unscrew if necessary anyway?
Ben/ 496R

Steve W. and Bob P.

Thanks for the reply.

You are probly right but I had already pulled them off. Of course I

put a

healthy coat of proseal over them. I am thinking, when I do the top

tank

cover I will coat the top and the underneath of the ribs and spars,

align

the tank cover then push an awl through the rivet holes before I

insert the

rivet dipped in proseal. May be this will prevent the bead form

forming on

the rivet. And may be this is just a lot of "extra work"?

Charlie E.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Proseal technique

Hi Charlie !

I agree with Steve - it will take a lot to remove those globs !!
You are dipping the rivets in proseal before inserting ...
just as you would dip the regular ones going into epoxy primer.

One caution - be sure to keep a set of clecoes for
use with proseal --- in a jar of acetone !! Several builders
have had leaks around rivets caused by the oil on clecoes !!
Storing them in acetone will keep them clean ....

You might want to run a capping coating of proseal
over the bases of those rivets anyway .... some use
the 'brushable' version for this final seal.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Tuesday 16 October 2007 21:40, Charlie Eubanks wrote:

with

the

pads,

spread

inserted and

noticed

the

access

cover

be

lines

the

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As someone suggested when I had the same concern regarding the rivet globs detaching in the tank and becoming a problem: After riveting the top on the tank, roll the wing over to allow the globs to flop over and stick to something before curing.

Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:27:22 -0900
From: bransom@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Proseal technique
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Charlie
The awl sounds like a good idea for eliminating some of the proseal glob. I
find an awl is a handy tool often anyway to pull holes into alignment. I
think I generally pushed the rivet into the hole slightly, then out, and
spun it a bit to assure the rivet was covered including under the "lid",
then finally back in. This also maybe prevented globs on the inside. I
don't think a glob that comes off would mess up the water drains. IIRC
those brass fittings unscrew if necessary anyway?
Ben/ 496R

Steve W. and Bob P.

Thanks for the reply.

You are probly right but I had already pulled them off. Of course I put a
healthy coat of proseal over them. I am thinking, when I do the top tank
cover I will coat the top and the underneath of the ribs and spars, align
the tank cover then push an awl through the rivet holes before I insert the
rivet dipped in proseal. May be this will prevent the bead form forming on
the rivet. And may be this is just a lot of "extra work"?

Charlie E.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Proseal technique

Hi Charlie !

I agree with Steve - it will take a lot to remove those globs !!
You are dipping the rivets in proseal before inserting ...
just as you would dip the regular ones going into epoxy primer.

One caution - be sure to keep a set of clecoes for
use with proseal --- in a jar of acetone !! Several builders
have had leaks around rivets caused by the oil on clecoes !!
Storing them in acetone will keep them clean ....

You might want to run a capping coating of proseal
over the bases of those rivets anyway .... some use
the 'brushable' version for this final seal.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 16 October 2007 21:40, Charlie Eubanks wrote:


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