Another Rebel flys

[Walter Klatt]

Finally got 107R airborne on Monday June 26, 2000 at 7:45 PM. The plane
itself flew great, and it doesn't appear to need any adjustments to any
flight controls. My engine, however, was running a little on the hot
side. I am using the 150 HP O320 with a 3 blade Warp drive prop. I also
picked the hottest day of the year so far to test fly it, as we hit 32
degress C that day here in Langley B.C. In any case, though, I need to
enlarge the cowling opening at the bottom a little more to provide more
airflow. I'm wondering if any builders can give me some specific advice
here, in terms of size of opening, etc. I am using the Murphy speed
cowl. I have also noticed that some people build a lip on the bottom
opening to draw out more air. I didn't do that. Any comments or advice
would be appreciated. THX.
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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Your following message has been delivered to the 148 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 10:18:50 on 30 Jun 2000.
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CONGRATULATIONS WALT! Another great accomplishment in life licked!

As for your temperature problem, you didn't state CHT or Oil Temp. On
Howard's speed cowl we played with it for months, as he wanted to keep that
stupid "out" take scoop under the carb area! We enlarged his about 3 fold
and then he put some exit scoops below his forward exhaust stacks also. All
temperatures okay now, but a lot of extra work to accomplish!

When I did C-FXWI with the speed cowling I cut the bottom out in a "circle"
from exhaust to exhaust pipe, with the arc coming forward to about an inch
behind the dump pipe below the carb heat box. (If you meet up with the
Ramblers in B.C. you can have a look as Bob P. now owns and is flying it on
the Ramble) This set up has worked great, without having to do any
fiberglass work building drag inducing lips etc.. Cylinder temps run at
about 375 F and oil about 205/210 F. Some have also incorporated cowl flaps
to make up for difference between winter and summer, but shock cooling is
not usually a great problem on O-320 Lycomings as compared to the O-470's
and IO-520 Continentals in C180 and C185's .

Happy flying,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 9:55 AM
Subject: Another Rebel flys

Finally got 107R airborne on Monday June 26, 2000 at 7:45 PM. The plane
itself flew great, and it doesn't appear to need any adjustments to any
flight controls. My engine, however, was running a little on the hot
side. I am using the 150 HP O320 with a 3 blade Warp drive prop. I also
picked the hottest day of the year so far to test fly it, as we hit 32
degress C that day here in Langley B.C. In any case, though, I need to
enlarge the cowling opening at the bottom a little more to provide more
airflow. I'm wondering if any builders can give me some specific advice
here, in terms of size of opening, etc. I am using the Murphy speed
cowl. I have also noticed that some people build a lip on the bottom
opening to draw out more air. I didn't do that. Any comments or advice
would be appreciated. THX.
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[Walter Klatt]

My hottest CHT was cyl #3 and it would go right up to 500 at full power
in climb. Backing off to cruise power brought it down to about 450
degrees. Yes, very hot, so I only stayed up for about 1/2 hour for the
first flight. I will say that I was quite anxious there for awhile as I
watched that gauge climb straight up after the first take off.

The oil temp got up to about 235 degrees. My oil cooler is mounted at
the back of cyl #3, which explains why it was hotter than #4.

I have a weird old conical mount O320 with the carb at the back of the
oil pan, so my cut-out extends to the underside of the carb heat box. In
fact, the carb heat box probably helps block some of the airflow.

I had my opening cut out to about 100 square inches, and am planning to
increase it to about 126 with 1 inch lips for my next try. I can grind
the lips back later if the cooling is more than adequate.

Anyway, that's my current plan. Any other thoughts? Thanks.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

CONGRATULATIONS WALT! Another great accomplishment in life licked!

As for your temperature problem, you didn't state CHT or Oil Temp. On
Howard's speed cowl we played with it for months, as he wanted to keep that
stupid "out" take scoop under the carb area! We enlarged his about 3 fold
and then he put some exit scoops below his forward exhaust stacks also. All
temperatures okay now, but a lot of extra work to accomplish!

When I did C-FXWI with the speed cowling I cut the bottom out in a "circle"
from exhaust to exhaust pipe, with the arc coming forward to about an inch
behind the dump pipe below the carb heat box. (If you meet up with the
Ramblers in B.C. you can have a look as Bob P. now owns and is flying it on
the Ramble) This set up has worked great, without having to do any
fiberglass work building drag inducing lips etc.. Cylinder temps run at
about 375 F and oil about 205/210 F. Some have also incorporated cowl flaps
to make up for difference between winter and summer, but shock cooling is
not usually a great problem on O-320 Lycomings as compared to the O-470's
and IO-520 Continentals in C180 and C185's .

Happy flying,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 9:55 AM
Subject: Another Rebel flys

Finally got 107R airborne on Monday June 26, 2000 at 7:45 PM. The plane
itself flew great, and it doesn't appear to need any adjustments to any
flight controls. My engine, however, was running a little on the hot
side. I am using the 150 HP O320 with a 3 blade Warp drive prop. I also
picked the hottest day of the year so far to test fly it, as we hit 32
degress C that day here in Langley B.C. In any case, though, I need to
enlarge the cowling opening at the bottom a little more to provide more
airflow. I'm wondering if any builders can give me some specific advice
here, in terms of size of opening, etc. I am using the Murphy speed
cowl. I have also noticed that some people build a lip on the bottom
opening to draw out more air. I didn't do that. Any comments or advice
would be appreciated. THX.
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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks, Wayne, this information is very helpful.

My engine has 911 hours since the last overhaul, so it is definitely
broken in. However, it has one new (overhauled) cylinder in the #1
position (previous one had a crack there), but ironically this one ran
the coolest. I wanted to run it for at least an hour to break in the new
cylinder, but decided to come down early because of the overheating.

My prop pitch is definitely on the course side, too, as I think I was
only getting about 2450 or 2500 on climb. I didn't run it flat out on
cruise as I was trying to cool the hot cylinder down when I wasn't
climbing, so not sure what it would wind up to. Will check that next
time.

Tomorrow and Sunday, I want to get the cowl done, so hope to fly it
again on Monday.

Thanks again for your great advice.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Walter, is the engine Zero'd or a used engine? If overhauled, CHT temps
usually run about 50 to 60 degrees hot until everything seats. Oil temp will
run about 20 or 30 degrees hot. I fly a minimum of 2 hours on an overhauled
engine in level flight at almost full power, with minor throttle changes
every 10 minutes or so. At about 1 hour 45 minutes I usually see the temps
suddenly drop to indicate that everything has seated in nice. Coming in any
sooner can glaze the cylinders and you will eat oil for ever.

If this is the case with you (zero'd engine) then maybe you just need to get
it back in the air and fly around until everything seats! Keep the nose down
to keep the air flow at max through the cowling on climb out! If not the
case and you have a previously broken in engine then yes open up the cowl
exit some more. Try the quick open up first. Then try the lip if necessary.
Angled lip will usually help drop the temps a few degrees, but also causes
drag.

Your temps on climb out are similar to what Howard experienced with his
during the first few flights. ie: about 500 F on Cylinders and 235/245 on
oil. These are not outside the Lycoming operating temperature range, but are
definitely on the high end. I ran 235 to 245 F oil temperature for 4 years
on my oil cooler less O-235-C with no detrimental effects, but this IS a
little high. Just don't open things up too much and drop the oil temp down
below 195/200 or you won't get the moisture out of the engine oil and the
motor will corrode.

One other thing! Is your propellor pitch allowing the engine to wind up to
full engine rated R.P.M in level flight with full throttle (or slightly
redline)? If you are not getting full R.P.M. then you are lugging your
engine and this will really cause the temps to rise. It's like pulling a
trailer up a step grade in high gear!!!

Hope there was some help in there!
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys

My hottest CHT was cyl #3 and it would go right up to 500 at full power
in climb. Backing off to cruise power brought it down to about 450
degrees. Yes, very hot, so I only stayed up for about 1/2 hour for the
first flight. I will say that I was quite anxious there for awhile as I
watched that gauge climb straight up after the first take off.

The oil temp got up to about 235 degrees. My oil cooler is mounted at
the back of cyl #3, which explains why it was hotter than #4.

I have a weird old conical mount O320 with the carb at the back of the
oil pan, so my cut-out extends to the underside of the carb heat box. In
fact, the carb heat box probably helps block some of the airflow.

I had my opening cut out to about 100 square inches, and am planning to
increase it to about 126 with 1 inch lips for my next try. I can grind
the lips back later if the cooling is more than adequate.

Anyway, that's my current plan. Any other thoughts? Thanks.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

CONGRATULATIONS WALT! Another great accomplishment in life licked!

As for your temperature problem, you didn't state CHT or Oil Temp. On
Howard's speed cowl we played with it for months, as he wanted to keep

that

stupid "out" take scoop under the carb area! We enlarged his about 3 fold
and then he put some exit scoops below his forward exhaust stacks also.

All

temperatures okay now, but a lot of extra work to accomplish!

When I did C-FXWI with the speed cowling I cut the bottom out in a

"circle"

from exhaust to exhaust pipe, with the arc coming forward to about an

inch

behind the dump pipe below the carb heat box. (If you meet up with the
Ramblers in B.C. you can have a look as Bob P. now owns and is flying it

on

the Ramble) This set up has worked great, without having to do any
fiberglass work building drag inducing lips etc.. Cylinder temps run at
about 375 F and oil about 205/210 F. Some have also incorporated cowl

flaps

to make up for difference between winter and summer, but shock cooling is
not usually a great problem on O-320 Lycomings as compared to the O-470's
and IO-520 Continentals in C180 and C185's .

Happy flying,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 9:55 AM
Subject: Another Rebel flys

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[Bob Patterson]

Congratulations Walter !!!

Look forward to seeing your Rebel in a couple of weeks !!
Hope to get to Chilliwack by the 14th - 18th ....

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 06:54 AM 6/30/00 -0700, you wrote:

Finally got 107R airborne on Monday June 26, 2000 at 7:45 PM. The plane
itself flew great, and it doesn't appear to need any adjustments to any
flight controls. My engine, however, was running a little on the hot
side. I am using the 150 HP O320 with a 3 blade Warp drive prop. I also
picked the hottest day of the year so far to test fly it, as we hit 32
degress C that day here in Langley B.C. In any case, though, I need to
enlarge the cowling opening at the bottom a little more to provide more
airflow. I'm wondering if any builders can give me some specific advice
here, in terms of size of opening, etc. I am using the Murphy speed
cowl. I have also noticed that some people build a lip on the bottom
opening to draw out more air. I didn't do that. Any comments or advice
would be appreciated. THX.
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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Your following message has been delivered to the 149 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 18:34:58 on 30 Jun 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Walter, is the engine Zero'd or a used engine? If overhauled, CHT temps
usually run about 50 to 60 degrees hot until everything seats. Oil temp will
run about 20 or 30 degrees hot. I fly a minimum of 2 hours on an overhauled
engine in level flight at almost full power, with minor throttle changes
every 10 minutes or so. At about 1 hour 45 minutes I usually see the temps
suddenly drop to indicate that everything has seated in nice. Coming in any
sooner can glaze the cylinders and you will eat oil for ever.

If this is the case with you (zero'd engine) then maybe you just need to get
it back in the air and fly around until everything seats! Keep the nose down
to keep the air flow at max through the cowling on climb out! If not the
case and you have a previously broken in engine then yes open up the cowl
exit some more. Try the quick open up first. Then try the lip if necessary.
Angled lip will usually help drop the temps a few degrees, but also causes
drag.

Your temps on climb out are similar to what Howard experienced with his
during the first few flights. ie: about 500 F on Cylinders and 235/245 on
oil. These are not outside the Lycoming operating temperature range, but are
definitely on the high end. I ran 235 to 245 F oil temperature for 4 years
on my oil cooler less O-235-C with no detrimental effects, but this IS a
little high. Just don't open things up too much and drop the oil temp down
below 195/200 or you won't get the moisture out of the engine oil and the
motor will corrode.

One other thing! Is your propellor pitch allowing the engine to wind up to
full engine rated R.P.M in level flight with full throttle (or slightly
redline)? If you are not getting full R.P.M. then you are lugging your
engine and this will really cause the temps to rise. It's like pulling a
trailer up a step grade in high gear!!!

Hope there was some help in there!
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys

My hottest CHT was cyl #3 and it would go right up to 500 at full power
in climb. Backing off to cruise power brought it down to about 450
degrees. Yes, very hot, so I only stayed up for about 1/2 hour for the
first flight. I will say that I was quite anxious there for awhile as I
watched that gauge climb straight up after the first take off.

The oil temp got up to about 235 degrees. My oil cooler is mounted at
the back of cyl #3, which explains why it was hotter than #4.

I have a weird old conical mount O320 with the carb at the back of the
oil pan, so my cut-out extends to the underside of the carb heat box. In
fact, the carb heat box probably helps block some of the airflow.

I had my opening cut out to about 100 square inches, and am planning to
increase it to about 126 with 1 inch lips for my next try. I can grind
the lips back later if the cooling is more than adequate.

Anyway, that's my current plan. Any other thoughts? Thanks.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

CONGRATULATIONS WALT! Another great accomplishment in life licked!

As for your temperature problem, you didn't state CHT or Oil Temp. On
Howard's speed cowl we played with it for months, as he wanted to keep

that

stupid "out" take scoop under the carb area! We enlarged his about 3 fold
and then he put some exit scoops below his forward exhaust stacks also.

All

temperatures okay now, but a lot of extra work to accomplish!

When I did C-FXWI with the speed cowling I cut the bottom out in a

"circle"

from exhaust to exhaust pipe, with the arc coming forward to about an

inch

behind the dump pipe below the carb heat box. (If you meet up with the
Ramblers in B.C. you can have a look as Bob P. now owns and is flying it

on

the Ramble) This set up has worked great, without having to do any
fiberglass work building drag inducing lips etc.. Cylinder temps run at
about 375 F and oil about 205/210 F. Some have also incorporated cowl

flaps

to make up for difference between winter and summer, but shock cooling is
not usually a great problem on O-320 Lycomings as compared to the O-470's
and IO-520 Continentals in C180 and C185's .

Happy flying,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 9:55 AM
Subject: Another Rebel flys

Finally got 107R airborne on Monday June 26, 2000 at 7:45 PM. The plane
itself flew great, and it doesn't appear to need any adjustments to any
flight controls. My engine, however, was running a little on the hot
side. I am using the 150 HP O320 with a 3 blade Warp drive prop. I also
picked the hottest day of the year so far to test fly it, as we hit 32
degress C that day here in Langley B.C. In any case, though, I need to
enlarge the cowling opening at the bottom a little more to provide more
airflow. I'm wondering if any builders can give me some specific advice
here, in terms of size of opening, etc. I am using the Murphy speed
cowl. I have also noticed that some people build a lip on the bottom
opening to draw out more air. I didn't do that. Any comments or advice
would be appreciated. THX.

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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks Bob, and yes, would love to meet up with you guys. I am at the
Langley Airport which is only about 30 miles from Chilliwack. Good luck
on your Ramble adventure.

Bob Patterson wrote:

Congratulations Walter !!!

Look forward to seeing your Rebel in a couple of weeks !!
Hope to get to Chilliwack by the 14th - 18th ....

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 06:54 AM 6/30/00 -0700, you wrote:

Finally got 107R airborne on Monday June 26, 2000 at 7:45 PM. The plane
itself flew great, and it doesn't appear to need any adjustments to any
flight controls. My engine, however, was running a little on the hot
side. I am using the 150 HP O320 with a 3 blade Warp drive prop. I also
picked the hottest day of the year so far to test fly it, as we hit 32
degress C that day here in Langley B.C. In any case, though, I need to
enlarge the cowling opening at the bottom a little more to provide more
airflow. I'm wondering if any builders can give me some specific advice
here, in terms of size of opening, etc. I am using the Murphy speed
cowl. I have also noticed that some people build a lip on the bottom
opening to draw out more air. I didn't do that. Any comments or advice
would be appreciated. THX.
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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[LisaFly99]

WALT
GONGRAT'S on you're flight!
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D
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[Walter Klatt]

Brian, it's Walter. I have only been up a couple of times so far, but
here are a couple of numbers so far. My pitch on the Warp Drive is set
to 11 1/2 degrees right now and it turns 2350 static on the ground. Not
sure yet exactly what the climb is, but did get up to 2600 once briefly
on the circuit down wind while straight and level, and my ASI read 130
MPH. That's all I've got so far.

rebelair wrote:

Hi Wayne

Congratulations on your first flight. Your set up is similar to mine. What
pitch do you have on your prop? What cruise speed are you getting & what
top rpm are you getting in cruise & climb?

Best REgards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt [mailto:Walter.Klatt@home.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 1:09 AM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys

Thanks, Wayne, this information is very helpful.

My engine has 911 hours since the last overhaul, so it is definitely
broken in. However, it has one new (overhauled) cylinder in the #1
position (previous one had a crack there), but ironically this one ran
the coolest. I wanted to run it for at least an hour to break in the new
cylinder, but decided to come down early because of the overheating.

My prop pitch is definitely on the course side, too, as I think I was
only getting about 2450 or 2500 on climb. I didn't run it flat out on
cruise as I was trying to cool the hot cylinder down when I wasn't
climbing, so not sure what it would wind up to. Will check that next
time.

Tomorrow and Sunday, I want to get the cowl done, so hope to fly it
again on Monday.

Thanks again for your great advice.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Walter, is the engine Zero'd or a used engine? If overhauled, CHT temps
usually run about 50 to 60 degrees hot until everything seats. Oil temp

will

run about 20 or 30 degrees hot. I fly a minimum of 2 hours on an

overhauled

engine in level flight at almost full power, with minor throttle changes
every 10 minutes or so. At about 1 hour 45 minutes I usually see the temps
suddenly drop to indicate that everything has seated in nice. Coming in

any

sooner can glaze the cylinders and you will eat oil for ever.

If this is the case with you (zero'd engine) then maybe you just need to

get

it back in the air and fly around until everything seats! Keep the nose

down

to keep the air flow at max through the cowling on climb out! If not the
case and you have a previously broken in engine then yes open up the cowl
exit some more. Try the quick open up first. Then try the lip if

necessary.

Angled lip will usually help drop the temps a few degrees, but also causes
drag.

Your temps on climb out are similar to what Howard experienced with his
during the first few flights. ie: about 500 F on Cylinders and 235/245 on
oil. These are not outside the Lycoming operating temperature range, but

are

definitely on the high end. I ran 235 to 245 F oil temperature for 4 years
on my oil cooler less O-235-C with no detrimental effects, but this IS a
little high. Just don't open things up too much and drop the oil temp down
below 195/200 or you won't get the moisture out of the engine oil and the
motor will corrode.

One other thing! Is your propellor pitch allowing the engine to wind up to
full engine rated R.P.M in level flight with full throttle (or slightly
redline)? If you are not getting full R.P.M. then you are lugging your
engine and this will really cause the temps to rise. It's like pulling a
trailer up a step grade in high gear!!!

Hope there was some help in there!
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys

My hottest CHT was cyl #3 and it would go right up to 500 at full power
in climb. Backing off to cruise power brought it down to about 450
degrees. Yes, very hot, so I only stayed up for about 1/2 hour for the
first flight. I will say that I was quite anxious there for awhile as I
watched that gauge climb straight up after the first take off.

The oil temp got up to about 235 degrees. My oil cooler is mounted at
the back of cyl #3, which explains why it was hotter than #4.

I have a weird old conical mount O320 with the carb at the back of the
oil pan, so my cut-out extends to the underside of the carb heat box. In
fact, the carb heat box probably helps block some of the airflow.

I had my opening cut out to about 100 square inches, and am planning to
increase it to about 126 with 1 inch lips for my next try. I can grind
the lips back later if the cooling is more than adequate.

Anyway, that's my current plan. Any other thoughts? Thanks.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

that

fold

All

"circle"

inch

it

on

flaps

is

O-470's

plane

any

also

more

advice

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[rebelair]

Hi Wayne

Did Bob really buy the 0320 Rebel from you that he now has at BFC? If so,
Bob is MAM's best repeat customer I bet. The airplane looks great & I'm
sure he will like the setup of speed cowl, your bungee fix, 0320 etc. & the
Sensenich prop. What do you think of that prop vs. the Warp drive by the
way.

Best Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 2:12 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys


CONGRATULATIONS WALT! Another great accomplishment in life licked!

As for your temperature problem, you didn't state CHT or Oil Temp. On
Howard's speed cowl we played with it for months, as he wanted to keep that
stupid "out" take scoop under the carb area! We enlarged his about 3 fold
and then he put some exit scoops below his forward exhaust stacks also. All
temperatures okay now, but a lot of extra work to accomplish!

When I did C-FXWI with the speed cowling I cut the bottom out in a "circle"
from exhaust to exhaust pipe, with the arc coming forward to about an inch
behind the dump pipe below the carb heat box. (If you meet up with the
Ramblers in B.C. you can have a look as Bob P. now owns and is flying it on
the Ramble) This set up has worked great, without having to do any
fiberglass work building drag inducing lips etc.. Cylinder temps run at
about 375 F and oil about 205/210 F. Some have also incorporated cowl flaps
to make up for difference between winter and summer, but shock cooling is
not usually a great problem on O-320 Lycomings as compared to the O-470's
and IO-520 Continentals in C180 and C185's .

Happy flying,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 9:55 AM
Subject: Another Rebel flys

Finally got 107R airborne on Monday June 26, 2000 at 7:45 PM. The plane
itself flew great, and it doesn't appear to need any adjustments to any
flight controls. My engine, however, was running a little on the hot
side. I am using the 150 HP O320 with a 3 blade Warp drive prop. I also
picked the hottest day of the year so far to test fly it, as we hit 32
degress C that day here in Langley B.C. In any case, though, I need to
enlarge the cowling opening at the bottom a little more to provide more
airflow. I'm wondering if any builders can give me some specific advice
here, in terms of size of opening, etc. I am using the Murphy speed
cowl. I have also noticed that some people build a lip on the bottom
opening to draw out more air. I didn't do that. Any comments or advice
would be appreciated. THX.
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[rebelair]

Hi Wayne

Congratulations on your first flight. Your set up is similar to mine. What
pitch do you have on your prop? What cruise speed are you getting & what
top rpm are you getting in cruise & climb?

Best REgards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt [mailto:Walter.Klatt@home.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 1:09 AM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys


Thanks, Wayne, this information is very helpful.

My engine has 911 hours since the last overhaul, so it is definitely
broken in. However, it has one new (overhauled) cylinder in the #1
position (previous one had a crack there), but ironically this one ran
the coolest. I wanted to run it for at least an hour to break in the new
cylinder, but decided to come down early because of the overheating.

My prop pitch is definitely on the course side, too, as I think I was
only getting about 2450 or 2500 on climb. I didn't run it flat out on
cruise as I was trying to cool the hot cylinder down when I wasn't
climbing, so not sure what it would wind up to. Will check that next
time.

Tomorrow and Sunday, I want to get the cowl done, so hope to fly it
again on Monday.

Thanks again for your great advice.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Walter, is the engine Zero'd or a used engine? If overhauled, CHT temps
usually run about 50 to 60 degrees hot until everything seats. Oil temp

will

run about 20 or 30 degrees hot. I fly a minimum of 2 hours on an

overhauled

engine in level flight at almost full power, with minor throttle changes
every 10 minutes or so. At about 1 hour 45 minutes I usually see the temps
suddenly drop to indicate that everything has seated in nice. Coming in

any

sooner can glaze the cylinders and you will eat oil for ever.

If this is the case with you (zero'd engine) then maybe you just need to

get

it back in the air and fly around until everything seats! Keep the nose

down

to keep the air flow at max through the cowling on climb out! If not the
case and you have a previously broken in engine then yes open up the cowl
exit some more. Try the quick open up first. Then try the lip if

necessary.

Angled lip will usually help drop the temps a few degrees, but also causes
drag.

Your temps on climb out are similar to what Howard experienced with his
during the first few flights. ie: about 500 F on Cylinders and 235/245 on
oil. These are not outside the Lycoming operating temperature range, but

are

definitely on the high end. I ran 235 to 245 F oil temperature for 4 years
on my oil cooler less O-235-C with no detrimental effects, but this IS a
little high. Just don't open things up too much and drop the oil temp down
below 195/200 or you won't get the moisture out of the engine oil and the
motor will corrode.

One other thing! Is your propellor pitch allowing the engine to wind up to
full engine rated R.P.M in level flight with full throttle (or slightly
redline)? If you are not getting full R.P.M. then you are lugging your
engine and this will really cause the temps to rise. It's like pulling a
trailer up a step grade in high gear!!!

Hope there was some help in there!
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys

My hottest CHT was cyl #3 and it would go right up to 500 at full power
in climb. Backing off to cruise power brought it down to about 450
degrees. Yes, very hot, so I only stayed up for about 1/2 hour for the
first flight. I will say that I was quite anxious there for awhile as I
watched that gauge climb straight up after the first take off.

The oil temp got up to about 235 degrees. My oil cooler is mounted at
the back of cyl #3, which explains why it was hotter than #4.

I have a weird old conical mount O320 with the carb at the back of the
oil pan, so my cut-out extends to the underside of the carb heat box. In
fact, the carb heat box probably helps block some of the airflow.

I had my opening cut out to about 100 square inches, and am planning to
increase it to about 126 with 1 inch lips for my next try. I can grind
the lips back later if the cooling is more than adequate.

Anyway, that's my current plan. Any other thoughts? Thanks.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

CONGRATULATIONS WALT! Another great accomplishment in life licked!

As for your temperature problem, you didn't state CHT or Oil Temp. On
Howard's speed cowl we played with it for months, as he wanted to keep

that

stupid "out" take scoop under the carb area! We enlarged his about 3

fold

and then he put some exit scoops below his forward exhaust stacks also.

All

temperatures okay now, but a lot of extra work to accomplish!

When I did C-FXWI with the speed cowling I cut the bottom out in a

"circle"

from exhaust to exhaust pipe, with the arc coming forward to about an

inch

behind the dump pipe below the carb heat box. (If you meet up with the
Ramblers in B.C. you can have a look as Bob P. now owns and is flying

it

on

the Ramble) This set up has worked great, without having to do any
fiberglass work building drag inducing lips etc.. Cylinder temps run at
about 375 F and oil about 205/210 F. Some have also incorporated cowl

flaps

to make up for difference between winter and summer, but shock cooling

is

not usually a great problem on O-320 Lycomings as compared to the

O-470's

and IO-520 Continentals in C180 and C185's .

Happy flying,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 9:55 AM
Subject: Another Rebel flys

plane

any

also

more

advice

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[Bob Patterson]

Walter,
An update on XWI - as breakin is proceeding, temperatures now
are down to 350 degrees CHT, and the oil is pretty steady at 190 F.
The larger cowl exit opening definitely helps... Have about 17 hours
on the new engine now.

With the 74 x 56 Sensenich prop, it turns about 2,500 on climb,
and 2,700 level. Cruise at 2,450 is about 120 - 125 ... lots of drag
from unfaired (at the moment - soon to be fixed) gear legs ....
Climb is pretty exciting - I've seen 1,500 fpm, and usually at least
1,300 fpm !! :-) :-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 11:32 PM 7/4/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Wayne

Congratulations on your first flight. Your set up is similar to mine. What
pitch do you have on your prop? What cruise speed are you getting & what
top rpm are you getting in cruise & climb?

Best REgards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt [mailto:Walter.Klatt@home.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 1:09 AM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys


Thanks, Wayne, this information is very helpful.

My engine has 911 hours since the last overhaul, so it is definitely
broken in. However, it has one new (overhauled) cylinder in the #1
position (previous one had a crack there), but ironically this one ran
the coolest. I wanted to run it for at least an hour to break in the new
cylinder, but decided to come down early because of the overheating.

My prop pitch is definitely on the course side, too, as I think I was
only getting about 2450 or 2500 on climb. I didn't run it flat out on
cruise as I was trying to cool the hot cylinder down when I wasn't
climbing, so not sure what it would wind up to. Will check that next
time.

Tomorrow and Sunday, I want to get the cowl done, so hope to fly it
again on Monday.

Thanks again for your great advice.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Walter, is the engine Zero'd or a used engine? If overhauled, CHT temps
usually run about 50 to 60 degrees hot until everything seats. Oil temp

will

run about 20 or 30 degrees hot. I fly a minimum of 2 hours on an

overhauled

engine in level flight at almost full power, with minor throttle changes
every 10 minutes or so. At about 1 hour 45 minutes I usually see the temps
suddenly drop to indicate that everything has seated in nice. Coming in

any

sooner can glaze the cylinders and you will eat oil for ever.

If this is the case with you (zero'd engine) then maybe you just need to

get

it back in the air and fly around until everything seats! Keep the nose

down

to keep the air flow at max through the cowling on climb out! If not the
case and you have a previously broken in engine then yes open up the cowl
exit some more. Try the quick open up first. Then try the lip if

necessary.

Angled lip will usually help drop the temps a few degrees, but also causes
drag.

Your temps on climb out are similar to what Howard experienced with his
during the first few flights. ie: about 500 F on Cylinders and 235/245 on
oil. These are not outside the Lycoming operating temperature range, but

are

definitely on the high end. I ran 235 to 245 F oil temperature for 4 years
on my oil cooler less O-235-C with no detrimental effects, but this IS a
little high. Just don't open things up too much and drop the oil temp down
below 195/200 or you won't get the moisture out of the engine oil and the
motor will corrode.

One other thing! Is your propellor pitch allowing the engine to wind up to
full engine rated R.P.M in level flight with full throttle (or slightly
redline)? If you are not getting full R.P.M. then you are lugging your
engine and this will really cause the temps to rise. It's like pulling a
trailer up a step grade in high gear!!!

Hope there was some help in there!
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys

My hottest CHT was cyl #3 and it would go right up to 500 at full power
in climb. Backing off to cruise power brought it down to about 450
degrees. Yes, very hot, so I only stayed up for about 1/2 hour for the
first flight. I will say that I was quite anxious there for awhile as I
watched that gauge climb straight up after the first take off.

The oil temp got up to about 235 degrees. My oil cooler is mounted at
the back of cyl #3, which explains why it was hotter than #4.

I have a weird old conical mount O320 with the carb at the back of the
oil pan, so my cut-out extends to the underside of the carb heat box. In
fact, the carb heat box probably helps block some of the airflow.

I had my opening cut out to about 100 square inches, and am planning to
increase it to about 126 with 1 inch lips for my next try. I can grind
the lips back later if the cooling is more than adequate.

Anyway, that's my current plan. Any other thoughts? Thanks.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

that

fold

All

"circle"

inch

it

on

flaps

is

O-470's

plane

any

also

more

advice

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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--------*

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--------*

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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
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Archives located at:
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[rebelair]

Hi Walter

Thanks for the info. That is about the same speed straight & level. I
rarely get much over 2500 rpm straight & level. On occasion, for some
reason that escapes me, the thing really revs over 2600 rpm & I go like
stink. It may be when I descend a bit & then go straight & level for a
while it may unload it enough to allow the revs. to get up & maintain a
higher rpm. This probably does not make much sense but is my experience.
Rarely get over 2400 rpm in the climb.

My 3 blade Warp drive is set for 13 degrees. I have been considering
dropping it back to about 12.5 degrees & try that on the way to Oshkosh or
the first few days of the ramble.

Please keep us posted about anything you learn. I have been flying the
Rebel for 11 months now & have really enjoyed every minute of it.

Have fun

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt [mailto:Walter.Klatt@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 12:14 AM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys


Brian, it's Walter. I have only been up a couple of times so far, but
here are a couple of numbers so far. My pitch on the Warp Drive is set
to 11 1/2 degrees right now and it turns 2350 static on the ground. Not
sure yet exactly what the climb is, but did get up to 2600 once briefly
on the circuit down wind while straight and level, and my ASI read 130
MPH. That's all I've got so far.

rebelair wrote:

Hi Wayne

Congratulations on your first flight. Your set up is similar to mine.

What

pitch do you have on your prop? What cruise speed are you getting & what
top rpm are you getting in cruise & climb?

Best REgards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt [mailto:Walter.Klatt@home.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 1:09 AM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys

Thanks, Wayne, this information is very helpful.

My engine has 911 hours since the last overhaul, so it is definitely
broken in. However, it has one new (overhauled) cylinder in the #1
position (previous one had a crack there), but ironically this one ran
the coolest. I wanted to run it for at least an hour to break in the new
cylinder, but decided to come down early because of the overheating.

My prop pitch is definitely on the course side, too, as I think I was
only getting about 2450 or 2500 on climb. I didn't run it flat out on
cruise as I was trying to cool the hot cylinder down when I wasn't
climbing, so not sure what it would wind up to. Will check that next
time.

Tomorrow and Sunday, I want to get the cowl done, so hope to fly it
again on Monday.

Thanks again for your great advice.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Walter, is the engine Zero'd or a used engine? If overhauled, CHT temps
usually run about 50 to 60 degrees hot until everything seats. Oil temp

will

run about 20 or 30 degrees hot. I fly a minimum of 2 hours on an

overhauled

engine in level flight at almost full power, with minor throttle changes
every 10 minutes or so. At about 1 hour 45 minutes I usually see the

temps

suddenly drop to indicate that everything has seated in nice. Coming in

any

sooner can glaze the cylinders and you will eat oil for ever.

If this is the case with you (zero'd engine) then maybe you just need to

get

it back in the air and fly around until everything seats! Keep the nose

down

to keep the air flow at max through the cowling on climb out! If not the
case and you have a previously broken in engine then yes open up the

cowl

exit some more. Try the quick open up first. Then try the lip if

necessary.

Angled lip will usually help drop the temps a few degrees, but also

causes

drag.

Your temps on climb out are similar to what Howard experienced with his
during the first few flights. ie: about 500 F on Cylinders and 235/245

on

oil. These are not outside the Lycoming operating temperature range, but

are

definitely on the high end. I ran 235 to 245 F oil temperature for 4

years

on my oil cooler less O-235-C with no detrimental effects, but this IS a
little high. Just don't open things up too much and drop the oil temp

down

below 195/200 or you won't get the moisture out of the engine oil and

the

motor will corrode.

One other thing! Is your propellor pitch allowing the engine to wind up

to

full engine rated R.P.M in level flight with full throttle (or slightly
redline)? If you are not getting full R.P.M. then you are lugging your
engine and this will really cause the temps to rise. It's like pulling a
trailer up a step grade in high gear!!!

Hope there was some help in there!
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Another Rebel flys

My hottest CHT was cyl #3 and it would go right up to 500 at full power
in climb. Backing off to cruise power brought it down to about 450
degrees. Yes, very hot, so I only stayed up for about 1/2 hour for the
first flight. I will say that I was quite anxious there for awhile as I
watched that gauge climb straight up after the first take off.

The oil temp got up to about 235 degrees. My oil cooler is mounted at
the back of cyl #3, which explains why it was hotter than #4.

I have a weird old conical mount O320 with the carb at the back of the
oil pan, so my cut-out extends to the underside of the carb heat box.

In

fact, the carb heat box probably helps block some of the airflow.

I had my opening cut out to about 100 square inches, and am planning to
increase it to about 126 with 1 inch lips for my next try. I can grind
the lips back later if the cooling is more than adequate.

Anyway, that's my current plan. Any other thoughts? Thanks.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

keep

that

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also.

All

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on

at

flaps

cooling

is

O-470's

plane

any

also

32

to

more

advice

advice

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[Rebflyer]

Hi Walt,
You can see I get to read My e-mail alot!!
I havn't read all the answers to your hot problem, but we are running the
same engine /mount setup as you, I believe. That is the 0-320 conical mount.
The two largest temp changes we made were this.
1. The temp gage thermocouple was mounted under the bottom plug.
After looking at the location in relation with the exhaust and hte
normal probe location, we switched it to the top plug. That made a diff. of
90 deg. F. Further investigation through others who had been through this
revealed that to be the norm in diff. so I left it under the top plug and
lower the red line by 45 deg.
2 After reading an article on keeping the air moving through the cowl
we ran duct tape from the bottom of the fus to about 2 inches over the top of
the motor mount that is just above the bottom of the fus. THat dropped the
temp almost 20 deg f.
3 we do have a lip on the bottom but we had that from the begining
4 we cut louvers in the sides of the cowl but they made no diff.
To finish, the best was the smothing of the air flow and the second was
the moving of the temp probe. ( that made my mind easier)
Good luck Curt N97MR
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