The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm**

Hi Craig !

For many years, Murphy has specified the use of Polyfiber Epoxy Primer,
EP-430, and the hardener to go with it. All parts must have this brushed on
between joints, then assembled WET. Rivets are also dipped in it before
inserting & pulling - again WET ! Many builders have been very happy
with this. Several have used other products - personally, I'd use the
Polyfiber - it's a few more $$, but well proven... just MHO !

Might be good to visit a Murphy builder nearby to learn best practices
and techniques - there is a good intro on the Murphy web site under
Tech Support....

The rivet gun is a PULLER - just put it on the rivet mandrel, push
hard so the rivet is in place, and pull the trigger. You can practice
on some scrap pieces ... Be sure to protect your eyes - especially if
there's no mandrel trap on the back of the gun !

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 14 September 2007 22:53, snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote:

Hi Gang,

Apparently epoxy chromate is no longer available. The aircraft stores up
here say it was deemed too dangerous and are carrying epoxy primer instead.
Anyone used this? Probably the same thing as E.C. Also, anyone know of or
seen a good guide or instructions to using a rivet gun? I have two now
but have never used one. Thanks in advance. Craig

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm**

Craig,

I used EP-430 on most of my rivets--mix up a very small amount in small
plastic cups. The old saying that a little goes a long way is very true.
I've done several thousand rivets and I'm still not half way through my
quart of the primer (and only a corresponding way through the activator).

I use zinc chromate in a spray can (Aircraft Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/zinc.php) on all the parts
before I rivet them in place. Spray it between parts and assemble wet if
you can. Get a case of cans if you get the spray cans--you'll go through a
lot.

An inexpensive rivet puller such as this one from Harbor Freight
(http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/ite ... emid=93458
&CategoryName=AIR%20TOOLS&SubCategoryName=MISCELLANEOUS%20AIR%20TOOLS) works
fine. You also need a hand rivet puller like this one:
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/t ... link30.php)

Get an EAA credit card--use if for your Aircraft Spruce orders--you get
anywhere from 5% to 10% off on orders when you do. It all adds up over
time.

Look around on the web for stuff like proseal, tools and such. You can find
great deals if you just shop around a bit.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 5:06 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Epoxy Primer

Hi Craig !

For many years, Murphy has specified the use of Polyfiber Epoxy Primer,
EP-430, and the hardener to go with it. All parts must have this brushed on
between joints, then assembled WET. Rivets are also dipped in it before
inserting & pulling - again WET ! Many builders have been very happy
with this. Several have used other products - personally, I'd use the
Polyfiber - it's a few more $$, but well proven... just MHO !

Might be good to visit a Murphy builder nearby to learn best practices
and techniques - there is a good intro on the Murphy web site under
Tech Support....

The rivet gun is a PULLER - just put it on the rivet mandrel, push
hard so the rivet is in place, and pull the trigger. You can practice
on some scrap pieces ... Be sure to protect your eyes - especially if
there's no mandrel trap on the back of the gun !

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 14 September 2007 22:53, snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote:

Hi Gang,

Apparently epoxy chromate is no longer available. The aircraft stores

up

here say it was deemed too dangerous and are carrying epoxy primer

instead.

Anyone used this? Probably the same thing as E.C. Also, anyone know of or
seen a good guide or instructions to using a rivet gun? I have two now
but have never used one. Thanks in advance. Craig

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm**

IMO chromate is not at all necessary for our 6061 aluminum but I highly
recommend 2 part epoxy primer from any convenient source. Especially
for any steel parts, parts that might flex, or for any parts that will
get fabric covering. Very small mixed batches keep for about a week in
the freezer for me. This is a common product for aluminum trucks etc. if
you don't have Polyfiber EP430 available. Shelf life is only a few
years so quart cans are plenty large for most of us. Clean up any excess
around exterior rivets and joints with acetone or you will say bad words
when you prep for painting as it is difficult to remove when fully cured.

Pneumatic rivet pullers generally work fine without adjustment. Use the
smallest diameter tip that will reliably let the rivet mandrel fall out
after you pull the rivet. I like to use just enough air pressure to snap
the rivet mandrel, especially on prosealed rivets (fuel tanks and
floats). There is no requirement for a solid rivet gun when building a
Rebel.

Ken

snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote:

Hi Gang,

Apparently epoxy chromate is no longer available. The aircraft stores up
here say it was deemed too dangerous and are carrying epoxy primer instead.
Anyone used this? Probably the same thing as E.C. Also, anyone know of or
seen a good guide or instructions to using a rivet gun? I have two now
but have never used one. Thanks in advance. Craig

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm**

Hello Craig

Just go in a good bodyshop supplier in your area. Many trucks, boat etc are
aluminium and they have primer for it. Just ask for a 2 parts epoxy
primer. Buy the smallest qty available, brush between parts, cleco wet, dip
rivet and... squeeze! When the aircraft will be completed, we will talk
again for the "big" job...

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm**

I am intrigued by the "big job" and wondering what it is.
Is it filling all the rivet holes with epoxy????

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jean
Poirier
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 8:30 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Epoxy Primer

Hello Craig

Just go in a good bodyshop supplier in your area. Many trucks, boat etc are
aluminium and they have primer for it. Just ask for a 2 parts epoxy
primer. Buy the smallest qty available, brush between parts, cleco wet, dip
rivet and... squeeze! When the aircraft will be completed, we will talk
again for the "big" job...

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm**

Noooo!

I was meening painting the whole aircraft! Why filling the rivet head? Or
built composite, there is no holes...

Jean Poirier
Pr

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm**

HiTec paint supply in both Anchorage and Fairbanks carry Stits Polyfiber
products, that's where I get my EP-430.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Poirier" <jean.poirier@oxyportneuf.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:29 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Epoxy Primer

[quote]Hello Craig

Just go in a good bodyshop supplier in your area. Many trucks, boat etc
are
aluminium and they have primer for it. Just ask for a 2 parts epoxy
primer. Buy the smallest qty available, brush between parts, cleco wet,
dip
rivet and... squeeze! When the aircraft will be completed, we will talk
again for the "big" job...

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm**

Thanks everyone for your input. And yes, I am looking forward to the "big
job"! cw

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Epoxy Primer

HiTec paint supply in both Anchorage and Fairbanks carry Stits Polyfiber
products, that's where I get my EP-430.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Poirier" <jean.poirier@oxyportneuf.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:29 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Epoxy Primer

[quote]Hello Craig

Just go in a good bodyshop supplier in your area. Many trucks, boat etc
are
aluminium and they have primer for it. Just ask for a 2 parts epoxy
primer. Buy the smallest qty available, brush between parts, cleco wet,
dip
rivet and... squeeze! When the aircraft will be completed, we will talk
again for the "big" job...

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:17 pm**

What kind of container do you guys use to mix the epoxy and hardener for dipping rivets?

Thanks,

Rick
SR277> From: beep@sympatico.ca> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Epoxy Primer> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:06:22 +0000> > > Hi Craig !> > For many years, Murphy has specified the use of Polyfiber Epoxy Primer,> EP-430, and the hardener to go with it. All parts must have this brushed on> between joints, then assembled WET. Rivets are also dipped in it before> inserting & pulling - again WET ! Many builders have been very happy> with this. Several have used other products - personally, I'd use the> Polyfiber - it's a few more $$, but well proven... just MHO !> > Might be good to visit a Murphy builder nearby to learn best practices> and techniques - there is a good intro on the Murphy web site under> Tech Support....> > The rivet gun is a PULLER - just put it on the rivet mandrel, push> hard so the rivet is in place, and pull the trigger. You can practice > on some scrap pieces ... Be sure to protect your eyes - especially if > there's no mandrel trap on the back
of the gun !> > > -- >

......bobp> http://www.prosumers.ca> http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com> http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com> > -------------------------------orig.------------------------- > On Friday 14 September 2007 22:53, snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote:> > Hi Gang,> >> > Apparently epoxy chromate is no longer available. The aircraft stores up> > here say it was deemed too dangerous and are carrying epoxy primer instead.> > Anyone used this? Probably the same thing as E.C. Also, anyone know of or> > seen a good guide or instructions to using a rivet gun? I have two now> > but have never used one. Thanks in advance. Craig> >> >> >> > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> username "rebel" password "builder"> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> -----------------------------------------------------------------> > >
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:17 pm**

Hello Rick

I use small spice bottles from dollard store (3 for $1.00). Then I spur
some in pepsi cap. I keep the mixed primer in the cooler between use.
When the spice bottle is emty, I let it dry and use it again!

Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:17 pm**

Some guys use 35mm film cannisters. I always used baby food bottles. For
big jobs I put primer in the lid and dipped. For small jobs I just
touched the rivet to the acid brush that I used to spread the primer.
Any sealed container kept the primer useable for a week or so if stored
in a freezer. I mixed a lot of batches of 2 teaspoons of green plus one
teaspoon of harderner...
Ken

Rick Johnson wrote:

What kind of container do you guys use to mix the epoxy and hardener for dipping rivets?

Thanks,

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:17 pm**

In my house, we always have empty small yogurt containers. They make a great
mix / storage containers.

I also found a source of hypodermic syringes (without needles) which are
great for measuring exact quantities of epoxy / hardener.

Norm Isler
Elite 702E

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exer ... 0000002489

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:17 pm**

He's not talking about your Scotch bottle Ralph! ;O)

I use a small movie theater coke cup...cut down to about an inch high. I
have an endless supply of these thanks to Daryl running a projector at the
theater since he was 12.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] epoxy primer

Best container I've found for dipping is a shot glass. Small amounts of
primer are best mixed and freezer stored in a 35mm plastic film container.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:17 pm**

Ralph

I like your style LOL!

Too small for Baileys eh ;-P

Dave & Francine

Ralph Baker wrote:

Best container I've found for dipping is a shot glass. Small amounts of primer are best mixed and freezer stored in a 35mm plastic film container.
Ralph Baker

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--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:17 pm**

A shot glass is too small for a Baileys! If a thing is worth doing, do it
right. By the way it will be in the mid and upper 70's (F) later this week.
Couldn't help rubbing it in. I trust all is well with both of you and the
house is proceeding. We often mention what a fine trip we had up there and
you both made it better. Sue sold her R1100RS and moved to a K75 which did
not fit her and bought a new 650GS single which seems right on all counts.
It is a quick as my 750 due to lighter weight and gets 73 (US) mpg on
regular which is welcome. This July it is out to Gillette, Wyoming for the
BMW rally. We now have a K75 sidecar rig which I rode back fro Seattle last
year. Elite still under construction but inching closer.

Best from both of us and let us know if you get anywhere near her.
Ralph & Sue

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ricker" <daricker@chebucto.ns.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] epoxy primer

Ralph

I like your style LOL!

Too small for Baileys eh ;-P

Dave & Francine

Ralph Baker wrote:

Best container I've found for dipping is a shot glass. Small amounts of

primer are best mixed and freezer stored in a 35mm plastic film container.

Ralph Baker

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--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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