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[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Jesse,

Yes, been there. The problem is just that when drilling up sizes, the
hand drill doesn't stay straight. You think that with a full 3/16" pilot
hole already in the block, it should, but over that distance, it doesn't
-- at least not consistently. You may also find at this point that the
block has changed its angle to the strut somewhat. It doesn't take much
before the angle from fuse to wing is off quite a ways, putting
unacceptable loads on the fittings.

I would suggest you get another strut and block and start over. They're
not outrageously expensive. I found I needed to do ALL drilling of the
block in the drill press. Also, when drilling the second of the first
two holes in the strut through the strut, I found it was helpful to put
a tight C-clamp (protecting the strut finish with some thin rubber)
around the block/strut while the block was still on the plane, just to
make sure I was holding the proper angle of the block to strut.
Otherwise the block, which has a loose fit in the strut, will wiggle in
its perpendicular orientation to the strut, which also contributes to
mis-aligned holes.

I drilled one hole on each side to 5/16" (second from top of wing end)
because I needed 5/16" for a stainless D-ring cap nut fitting I chose
for the tie-down, but I don't think all the holes should all be drilled
that size.

Ron


Jesse Jenks wrote:
Hi guys,
Here's my latest dilemma: I started up drilling the holes in the struts that
go through the ends of the strut and fitting block. I had done up to 3/16 in
the drill press (blocks only, not struts), so I had straight holes to start
with. I bolted them together with a couple 3/16 bolts and started drilling
the other holes up a couple drill sizes at a time with a hand drill. I
finished with a .248 reamer, and everything looked good, until I saw the
back side of the holes. The holes wandered off center a bit. The bolts fit
tight, but on the back side the hole is oblong. Imagine two different holes
starting from the same point, and finishing at slightly different points.
It's not that bad though, like I said the bolts are snug, but on one face or
the other the bolt is not fully engaging the strut material.
I have three options as I see it:
1) build new struts
2) drill out to 5/16
C) not worry about it.

Anyone been there and done that?

Thanks
Jesse

_________________________________________________________________
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Jesse Jenks

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Thanks For the advice Ron.
I think anyone doing this step for the first time should take serious pains
to get it right. The manual doesn't prep you adequately for drilling such
deep holes in solid aluminum, and it's the first time you have to do it
during the building process. I think it needs to be done completely in a
drill press like you say, or a milling machine. I have a set of drill
bushings that I clamped to the strut, and that didn't even yield perfect
results.
I am awaiting a reply from Murphy tech support to see what my options are. I
really don't want to start over from scratch. It took me 2 days of careful
fitting, measuring and drilling to get the struts made. Not to mention I had
the airframe out in the open driveway shared by my neighbors, with one wing
sticking in the garage so I wasn't able to close it up at night. Kids
playing around it etc. It was a bit worrying.
Ron, you mention some slop between the blocks and the strut. I had almost a
1/16" space, i.e. the blocks are 1.00", and the inside measurement of the
strut is 1.050" or something like that. I made up some shims so I have a
perfect fit. I didn't want to crush the strut down to fit the blocks. With
everything bolted together with 3/16 bolts before I started the final
drilling, I am confident the alignment of the blocks was not compromised. It
is just the imperfect holes that I am worried about.
I would guess that the clamping pressure of the 5 bolts is what creates the
strength in the joint, rather than the bolts being purely sheer loaded, but
I'm no engineer, so I will let MAM tell me.
Jesse

From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:48:26 -0700

Jesse,

Yes, been there. The problem is just that when drilling up sizes, the
hand drill doesn't stay straight. You think that with a full 3/16" pilot
hole already in the block, it should, but over that distance, it doesn't
-- at least not consistently. You may also find at this point that the
block has changed its angle to the strut somewhat. It doesn't take much
before the angle from fuse to wing is off quite a ways, putting
unacceptable loads on the fittings.

I would suggest you get another strut and block and start over. They're
not outrageously expensive. I found I needed to do ALL drilling of the
block in the drill press. Also, when drilling the second of the first
two holes in the strut through the strut, I found it was helpful to put
a tight C-clamp (protecting the strut finish with some thin rubber)
around the block/strut while the block was still on the plane, just to
make sure I was holding the proper angle of the block to strut.
Otherwise the block, which has a loose fit in the strut, will wiggle in
its perpendicular orientation to the strut, which also contributes to
mis-aligned holes.

I drilled one hole on each side to 5/16" (second from top of wing end)
because I needed 5/16" for a stainless D-ring cap nut fitting I chose
for the tie-down, but I don't think all the holes should all be drilled
that size.

Ron


Jesse Jenks wrote:
Hi guys,
Here's my latest dilemma: I started up drilling the holes in the struts
that
go through the ends of the strut and fitting block. I had done up to
3/16 in
the drill press (blocks only, not struts), so I had straight holes to
start
with. I bolted them together with a couple 3/16 bolts and started
drilling
the other holes up a couple drill sizes at a time with a hand drill. I
finished with a .248 reamer, and everything looked good, until I saw the
back side of the holes. The holes wandered off center a bit. The bolts
fit
tight, but on the back side the hole is oblong. Imagine two different
holes
starting from the same point, and finishing at slightly different
points.
It's not that bad though, like I said the bolts are snug, but on one
face or
the other the bolt is not fully engaging the strut material.
I have three options as I see it:
1) build new struts
2) drill out to 5/16
C) not worry about it.

Anyone been there and done that?

Thanks
Jesse

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with
5GB storage.
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Discover sweet stuff waiting for you at the Messenger Cafe.

Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Another problem can arise when drilling the hole closest to the
attachment end of the block(s). It's not enough to have the block
clamped horizontally in a drill press vise. The "bottom" face isn't flat
all the way along, and has a very slight angle up near the attachment
end. If the attachment end is over the open center of your vise when
pressing down to drill the hole closest to the attachment end, the drill
pressure can tip the block just a tad onto this other plane of the
bottom of the block, resulting in a non-perpendicular hole. In other
words, the strut block needs to be secured from "rocking" in the drill
press vise as well.

The strut block build isn't the only place the manual makes a task sound
routine when it might not be. Whenever anything is written up to sound
like a routine operation, alarms should go off! :-) I know the bummer
feeling of having to throw out many hours of work. I'm sure you'll get
it worked out. Just a bump in the road.


Jesse Jenks wrote:
Thanks For the advice Ron.
I think anyone doing this step for the first time should take serious pains
to get it right. The manual doesn't prep you adequately for drilling such
deep holes in solid aluminum, and it's the first time you have to do it
during the building process. I think it needs to be done completely in a
drill press like you say, or a milling machine. I have a set of drill
bushings that I clamped to the strut, and that didn't even yield perfect
results.
I am awaiting a reply from Murphy tech support to see what my options are. I
really don't want to start over from scratch. It took me 2 days of careful
fitting, measuring and drilling to get the struts made. Not to mention I had
the airframe out in the open driveway shared by my neighbors, with one wing
sticking in the garage so I wasn't able to close it up at night. Kids
playing around it etc. It was a bit worrying.
Ron, you mention some slop between the blocks and the strut. I had almost a
1/16" space, i.e. the blocks are 1.00", and the inside measurement of the
strut is 1.050" or something like that. I made up some shims so I have a
perfect fit. I didn't want to crush the strut down to fit the blocks. With
everything bolted together with 3/16 bolts before I started the final
drilling, I am confident the alignment of the blocks was not compromised. It
is just the imperfect holes that I am worried about.
I would guess that the clamping pressure of the 5 bolts is what creates the
strength in the joint, rather than the bolts being purely sheer loaded, but
I'm no engineer, so I will let MAM tell me.
Jesse

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Jesse Jenks

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Thanks for the insight Ken,
I had the bushing or doubler ideas too. Either one would require some
careful designing, but may be an option. I have also already drilled out the
second hole on the outboard end for 5/16 tiedown bolt/pad eye. On the bright
side, all of my inboard most holes (hole in the skinniest part of the block)
are good at 1/4", so if I drill out the rest to 5/16" edge distance
shouldn't be a problem. The next question if 5/16" bolts are approved, is
how do I not F&^% that up? I am thinking of handing the whole thing to a
machinist friend.
Here is another idea for an easy fix, but it probably has no merit: Bed the
bolts in structural epoxy to fill the small void. Epoxy mixed with
structural filler like flox should have an equal or better density to
aluminum and carry the load from the bolt to the strut. I know it sounds
hoaky, but who knows? I'll ask tech suport. Again, I should clarify that I
have a good fit on the bolts except for the last little bit on one end. We
are not talking about a really sloppy fit. After this experience, I would be
very curious to see what these holes looked like on some other "garage
built" Rebels out there.
Jesse

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:18:11 -0400

As mentioned, MAM does sell a 5/16" bolt threaded full length tie down
ring so at least one 5/16 hole with no grip length (smooth shank for
shear) is OK especially if it is not the outboard most hole. Daryl
asked whether I had 5 bolts under the fairing (some guys have 4 due to
poor wording in the manual) when he looked at my aircraft though so
obviously he has some concern. Hopefully he will approve drilling them
all out for you. Another possibility (if the inner fitting is OK for the
AN4 bolts) might be bushings in the strut only on the side that is oval.
ie. I might consider fiitting a 3/8 diameter plug in the oval hole side
of the strut that is then drilled out to 1/4 with an oversize washer on
the bolt. Difficult to do but perhaps possible if replacement struts are
not available. OTOH I think the general rule of thumb is 4 times
diameter for hole spacing which would require 1.5" hole spacing for the
bushings and I don't think we have that. A doubler on the strut could
also be considered though. However we all know that the easy and
conservative answer is to replace all the parts. Maybe someone with
another design can use shorter strut material? I drilled and reamed
these parts in a drill press and it was still surprising to me how easy
it would have been to break the drill bit. Aluminum cutting fluid is
recommended for these holes and clear the cuttings (withdraw the bit)
frequently. Oil is not ideal for drilling or cutting aluminum. I think
the little green 4 oz or so can that I use is labelled A-3 aluminum
cutting fluid.

The bolts are designed for sheer load to resist the lifting force of the
wing. Comparatively litte little load is taken by the friction between
the two parts that results from tightening the nut and that is not even
normally considered when designing. Certainly all the bolts don't
normally share the load equally since the bolts are not precisely
interference fitted. However in an overload situation, as the metal
(aluminum) starts to deform, the load may tend to share fairly well.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
Thanks For the advice Ron.
I think anyone doing this step for the first time should take serious
pains
to get it right. The manual doesn't prep you adequately for drilling such
deep holes in solid aluminum, and it's the first time you have to do it
during the building process. I think it needs to be done completely in a
drill press like you say, or a milling machine. I have a set of drill
bushings that I clamped to the strut, and that didn't even yield perfect
results.
I am awaiting a reply from Murphy tech support to see what my options
are. I
really don't want to start over from scratch. It took me 2 days of
careful
fitting, measuring and drilling to get the struts made. Not to mention I
had
the airframe out in the open driveway shared by my neighbors, with one
wing
sticking in the garage so I wasn't able to close it up at night. Kids
playing around it etc. It was a bit worrying.
Ron, you mention some slop between the blocks and the strut. I had almost
a
1/16" space, i.e. the blocks are 1.00", and the inside measurement of the
strut is 1.050" or something like that. I made up some shims so I have a
perfect fit. I didn't want to crush the strut down to fit the blocks.
With
everything bolted together with 3/16 bolts before I started the final
drilling, I am confident the alignment of the blocks was not compromised.
It
is just the imperfect holes that I am worried about.
I would guess that the clamping pressure of the 5 bolts is what creates
the
strength in the joint, rather than the bolts being purely sheer loaded,
but
I'm no engineer, so I will let MAM tell me.
Jesse



From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:48:26 -0700

Jesse,

Yes, been there. The problem is just that when drilling up sizes, the
hand drill doesn't stay straight. You think that with a full 3/16" pilot
hole already in the block, it should, but over that distance, it doesn't
-- at least not consistently. You may also find at this point that the
block has changed its angle to the strut somewhat. It doesn't take much
before the angle from fuse to wing is off quite a ways, putting
unacceptable loads on the fittings.

I would suggest you get another strut and block and start over. They're
not outrageously expensive. I found I needed to do ALL drilling of the
block in the drill press. Also, when drilling the second of the first
two holes in the strut through the strut, I found it was helpful to put
a tight C-clamp (protecting the strut finish with some thin rubber)
around the block/strut while the block was still on the plane, just to
make sure I was holding the proper angle of the block to strut.
Otherwise the block, which has a loose fit in the strut, will wiggle in
its perpendicular orientation to the strut, which also contributes to
mis-aligned holes.

I drilled one hole on each side to 5/16" (second from top of wing end)
because I needed 5/16" for a stainless D-ring cap nut fitting I chose
for the tie-down, but I don't think all the holes should all be drilled
that size.

Ron


Jesse Jenks wrote:

that

3/16 in

start

drilling

the
fit

holes

points.

face or




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Ken

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

I consider the epoxy metal repair products as mostly placebos that make
one feel better but don't really do anything structurally. I haven't had
positive experiences with them on other things and they are usually only
about a tenth as strong as aluminum.

It can be difficult to drill an oval hole without the bit chattering
resulting in an even larger oval hole. I like to file an oval hole
mostly round before putting a larger bit or reamer through. That way the
larger bit is guided to stay centered. Drill bits are remarkably
flexible and have a tendancy to wander off sideways if given an excuse
to do so. New good quality bits or ones carefully machine sharpened
equally on both sides may give better results and chatter less.

Another possibility might be to custom make larger strut fittings that
are a bit wider and extend farther into the strut so that you can use
larger bolts and/or space them farther apart. Maybe not even put a bolt
in some of the existing oval holes. MAM once told me that most of the
structural fitting were 2024 aluminum not 6061 which would bump the cost
though if true.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
Thanks for the insight Ken,
I had the bushing or doubler ideas too. Either one would require some
careful designing, but may be an option. I have also already drilled out the
second hole on the outboard end for 5/16 tiedown bolt/pad eye. On the bright
side, all of my inboard most holes (hole in the skinniest part of the block)
are good at 1/4", so if I drill out the rest to 5/16" edge distance
shouldn't be a problem. The next question if 5/16" bolts are approved, is
how do I not F&^% that up? I am thinking of handing the whole thing to a
machinist friend.
Here is another idea for an easy fix, but it probably has no merit: Bed the
bolts in structural epoxy to fill the small void. Epoxy mixed with
structural filler like flox should have an equal or better density to
aluminum and carry the load from the bolt to the strut. I know it sounds
hoaky, but who knows? I'll ask tech suport. Again, I should clarify that I
have a good fit on the bolts except for the last little bit on one end. We
are not talking about a really sloppy fit. After this experience, I would be
very curious to see what these holes looked like on some other "garage
built" Rebels out there.
Jesse




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Schmucker, Del

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Schmucker, Del » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Jesse:

I assume that one side of the bolt is fine so remember that you have 10
joints that are in shear mode you have one of those 10 that is not full
strength. So even if you are getting 50% strength out of your one joint
you will have 95% strength overall.

Thank you,

Del Schmucker

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse Jenks
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 10:49 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Thanks for the insight Ken,
I had the bushing or doubler ideas too. Either one would require some
careful designing, but may be an option. I have also already drilled out
the
second hole on the outboard end for 5/16 tiedown bolt/pad eye. On the
bright
side, all of my inboard most holes (hole in the skinniest part of the
block)
are good at 1/4", so if I drill out the rest to 5/16" edge distance
shouldn't be a problem. The next question if 5/16" bolts are approved,
is
how do I not F&^% that up? I am thinking of handing the whole thing to a

machinist friend.
Here is another idea for an easy fix, but it probably has no merit: Bed
the
bolts in structural epoxy to fill the small void. Epoxy mixed with
structural filler like flox should have an equal or better density to
aluminum and carry the load from the bolt to the strut. I know it sounds

hoaky, but who knows? I'll ask tech suport. Again, I should clarify that
I
have a good fit on the bolts except for the last little bit on one end.
We
are not talking about a really sloppy fit. After this experience, I
would be
very curious to see what these holes looked like on some other "garage
built" Rebels out there.
Jesse

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:18:11 -0400

As mentioned, MAM does sell a 5/16" bolt threaded full length tie down
ring so at least one 5/16 hole with no grip length (smooth shank for
shear) is OK especially if it is not the outboard most hole. Daryl
asked whether I had 5 bolts under the fairing (some guys have 4 due to
poor wording in the manual) when he looked at my aircraft though so
obviously he has some concern. Hopefully he will approve drilling them
all out for you. Another possibility (if the inner fitting is OK for
the
AN4 bolts) might be bushings in the strut only on the side that is
oval.
ie. I might consider fiitting a 3/8 diameter plug in the oval hole side
of the strut that is then drilled out to 1/4 with an oversize washer on
the bolt. Difficult to do but perhaps possible if replacement struts
are
not available. OTOH I think the general rule of thumb is 4 times
diameter for hole spacing which would require 1.5" hole spacing for the
bushings and I don't think we have that. A doubler on the strut could
also be considered though. However we all know that the easy and
conservative answer is to replace all the parts. Maybe someone with
another design can use shorter strut material? I drilled and reamed
these parts in a drill press and it was still surprising to me how easy
it would have been to break the drill bit. Aluminum cutting fluid is
recommended for these holes and clear the cuttings (withdraw the bit)
frequently. Oil is not ideal for drilling or cutting aluminum. I think
the little green 4 oz or so can that I use is labelled A-3 aluminum
cutting fluid.

The bolts are designed for sheer load to resist the lifting force of
the
wing. Comparatively litte little load is taken by the friction between
the two parts that results from tightening the nut and that is not even
normally considered when designing. Certainly all the bolts don't
normally share the load equally since the bolts are not precisely
interference fitted. However in an overload situation, as the metal
(aluminum) starts to deform, the load may tend to share fairly well.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
Thanks For the advice Ron.
I think anyone doing this step for the first time should take serious
pains
to get it right. The manual doesn't prep you adequately for drilling
such
deep holes in solid aluminum, and it's the first time you have to do
it
during the building process. I think it needs to be done completely
in a
drill press like you say, or a milling machine. I have a set of drill
bushings that I clamped to the strut, and that didn't even yield
perfect
results.
I am awaiting a reply from Murphy tech support to see what my options
are. I
really don't want to start over from scratch. It took me 2 days of
careful
fitting, measuring and drilling to get the struts made. Not to
mention I
had
the airframe out in the open driveway shared by my neighbors, with
one
wing
sticking in the garage so I wasn't able to close it up at night. Kids
playing around it etc. It was a bit worrying.
Ron, you mention some slop between the blocks and the strut. I had
almost
a
1/16" space, i.e. the blocks are 1.00", and the inside measurement of
the
strut is 1.050" or something like that. I made up some shims so I
have a
perfect fit. I didn't want to crush the strut down to fit the blocks.
With
everything bolted together with 3/16 bolts before I started the final
drilling, I am confident the alignment of the blocks was not
compromised.
It
is just the imperfect holes that I am worried about.
I would guess that the clamping pressure of the 5 bolts is what
creates
the
strength in the joint, rather than the bolts being purely sheer
loaded,
but
I'm no engineer, so I will let MAM tell me.
Jesse



From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:48:26 -0700

Jesse,

Yes, been there. The problem is just that when drilling up sizes,
the
hand drill doesn't stay straight. You think that with a full 3/16"
pilot
hole already in the block, it should, but over that distance, it
doesn't
-- at least not consistently. You may also find at this point that
the
block has changed its angle to the strut somewhat. It doesn't take
much
before the angle from fuse to wing is off quite a ways, putting
unacceptable loads on the fittings.

I would suggest you get another strut and block and start over.
They're
not outrageously expensive. I found I needed to do ALL drilling of
the
block in the drill press. Also, when drilling the second of the
first
two holes in the strut through the strut, I found it was helpful to
put
a tight C-clamp (protecting the strut finish with some thin rubber)
around the block/strut while the block was still on the plane, just
to
make sure I was holding the proper angle of the block to strut.
Otherwise the block, which has a loose fit in the strut, will wiggle
in
its perpendicular orientation to the strut, which also contributes
to
mis-aligned holes.

I drilled one hole on each side to 5/16" (second from top of wing
end)
because I needed 5/16" for a stainless D-ring cap nut fitting I
chose
for the tie-down, but I don't think all the holes should all be
drilled
that size.

Ron


Jesse Jenks wrote:

struts
that

to
3/16 in

to
start

drilling

drill. I
saw
the
bolts
fit

different
holes

points.

one
face or




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Mike Kimball

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Mike Kimball » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

For the record, if MAM is still selling the same tie downs that I bought
from them they are not quite 5/16. The diameter is very close to 5/16 but
the thread is metric. Luckily, I was able to find the correct metric stop
nut since I didn't get nuts with them.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 5:18 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

As mentioned, MAM does sell a 5/16" bolt threaded full length tie down
ring so at least one 5/16 hole with no grip length (smooth shank for
shear) is OK especially if it is not the outboard most hole. Daryl
asked whether I had 5 bolts under the fairing (some guys have 4 due to
poor wording in the manual) when he looked at my aircraft though so
obviously he has some concern. Hopefully he will approve drilling them
all out for you. Another possibility (if the inner fitting is OK for the
AN4 bolts) might be bushings in the strut only on the side that is oval.
ie. I might consider fiitting a 3/8 diameter plug in the oval hole side
of the strut that is then drilled out to 1/4 with an oversize washer on
the bolt. Difficult to do but perhaps possible if replacement struts are
not available. OTOH I think the general rule of thumb is 4 times
diameter for hole spacing which would require 1.5" hole spacing for the
bushings and I don't think we have that. A doubler on the strut could
also be considered though. However we all know that the easy and
conservative answer is to replace all the parts. Maybe someone with
another design can use shorter strut material? I drilled and reamed
these parts in a drill press and it was still surprising to me how easy
it would have been to break the drill bit. Aluminum cutting fluid is
recommended for these holes and clear the cuttings (withdraw the bit)
frequently. Oil is not ideal for drilling or cutting aluminum. I think
the little green 4 oz or so can that I use is labelled A-3 aluminum
cutting fluid.

The bolts are designed for sheer load to resist the lifting force of the
wing. Comparatively litte little load is taken by the friction between
the two parts that results from tightening the nut and that is not even
normally considered when designing. Certainly all the bolts don't
normally share the load equally since the bolts are not precisely
interference fitted. However in an overload situation, as the metal
(aluminum) starts to deform, the load may tend to share fairly well.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
Thanks For the advice Ron.
I think anyone doing this step for the first time should take serious pains
to get it right. The manual doesn't prep you adequately for drilling such
deep holes in solid aluminum, and it's the first time you have to do it
during the building process. I think it needs to be done completely in a
drill press like you say, or a milling machine. I have a set of drill
bushings that I clamped to the strut, and that didn't even yield perfect
results.
I am awaiting a reply from Murphy tech support to see what my options are.
I
really don't want to start over from scratch. It took me 2 days of careful
fitting, measuring and drilling to get the struts made. Not to mention I
had
the airframe out in the open driveway shared by my neighbors, with one wing
sticking in the garage so I wasn't able to close it up at night. Kids
playing around it etc. It was a bit worrying.
Ron, you mention some slop between the blocks and the strut. I had almost a
1/16" space, i.e. the blocks are 1.00", and the inside measurement of the
strut is 1.050" or something like that. I made up some shims so I have a
perfect fit. I didn't want to crush the strut down to fit the blocks. With
everything bolted together with 3/16 bolts before I started the final
drilling, I am confident the alignment of the blocks was not compromised.
It
is just the imperfect holes that I am worried about.
I would guess that the clamping pressure of the 5 bolts is what creates the
strength in the joint, rather than the bolts being purely sheer loaded, but
I'm no engineer, so I will let MAM tell me.
Jesse



From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:48:26 -0700

Jesse,

Yes, been there. The problem is just that when drilling up sizes, the
hand drill doesn't stay straight. You think that with a full 3/16" pilot
hole already in the block, it should, but over that distance, it doesn't
-- at least not consistently. You may also find at this point that the
block has changed its angle to the strut somewhat. It doesn't take much
before the angle from fuse to wing is off quite a ways, putting
unacceptable loads on the fittings.

I would suggest you get another strut and block and start over. They're
not outrageously expensive. I found I needed to do ALL drilling of the
block in the drill press. Also, when drilling the second of the first
two holes in the strut through the strut, I found it was helpful to put
a tight C-clamp (protecting the strut finish with some thin rubber)
around the block/strut while the block was still on the plane, just to
make sure I was holding the proper angle of the block to strut.
Otherwise the block, which has a loose fit in the strut, will wiggle in
its perpendicular orientation to the strut, which also contributes to
mis-aligned holes.

I drilled one hole on each side to 5/16" (second from top of wing end)
because I needed 5/16" for a stainless D-ring cap nut fitting I chose
for the tie-down, but I don't think all the holes should all be drilled
that size.

Ron


Jesse Jenks wrote:

Hi guys,
Here's my latest dilemma: I started up drilling the holes in the struts

that

go through the ends of the strut and fitting block. I had done up to

3/16 in

the drill press (blocks only, not struts), so I had straight holes to

start

with. I bolted them together with a couple 3/16 bolts and started

drilling

the other holes up a couple drill sizes at a time with a hand drill. I
finished with a .248 reamer, and everything looked good, until I saw the
back side of the holes. The holes wandered off center a bit. The bolts

fit

tight, but on the back side the hole is oblong. Imagine two different

holes

starting from the same point, and finishing at slightly different

points.

It's not that bad though, like I said the bolts are snug, but on one

face or

the other the bolt is not fully engaging the strut material.
I have three options as I see it:
1) build new struts
2) drill out to 5/16
C) not worry about it.

Anyone been there and done that?

Thanks
Jesse





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Jesse Jenks

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

I know, it's funny that a drill bit is one of the more tricky tools to use
correctly, and not the best thing for making a good hole. I think if I end
up enlarging the holes, I will get my friend to do it with a boring tool in
a milling machine. I don't think I would make custom fittings. It would be
easier to just start over with new parts from MAM. If I do that, can you
describe the technique that you used? If you drilled/reamed the fittings in
the drill press, at what point did you drill the holes in the struts, or did
you do everything together and somehow clamp the whole strut to your drill
press?
Thanks.
Jesse
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:01:23 -0400

I consider the epoxy metal repair products as mostly placebos that make
one feel better but don't really do anything structurally. I haven't had
positive experiences with them on other things and they are usually only
about a tenth as strong as aluminum.

It can be difficult to drill an oval hole without the bit chattering
resulting in an even larger oval hole. I like to file an oval hole
mostly round before putting a larger bit or reamer through. That way the
larger bit is guided to stay centered. Drill bits are remarkably
flexible and have a tendancy to wander off sideways if given an excuse
to do so. New good quality bits or ones carefully machine sharpened
equally on both sides may give better results and chatter less.

Another possibility might be to custom make larger strut fittings that
are a bit wider and extend farther into the strut so that you can use
larger bolts and/or space them farther apart. Maybe not even put a bolt
in some of the existing oval holes. MAM once told me that most of the
structural fitting were 2024 aluminum not 6061 which would bump the cost
though if true.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
Thanks for the insight Ken,
I had the bushing or doubler ideas too. Either one would require some
careful designing, but may be an option. I have also already drilled out
the
second hole on the outboard end for 5/16 tiedown bolt/pad eye. On the
bright
side, all of my inboard most holes (hole in the skinniest part of the
block)
are good at 1/4", so if I drill out the rest to 5/16" edge distance
shouldn't be a problem. The next question if 5/16" bolts are approved, is
how do I not F&^% that up? I am thinking of handing the whole thing to a
machinist friend.
Here is another idea for an easy fix, but it probably has no merit: Bed
the
bolts in structural epoxy to fill the small void. Epoxy mixed with
structural filler like flox should have an equal or better density to
aluminum and carry the load from the bolt to the strut. I know it sounds
hoaky, but who knows? I'll ask tech suport. Again, I should clarify that
I
have a good fit on the bolts except for the last little bit on one end.
We
are not talking about a really sloppy fit. After this experience, I would
be
very curious to see what these holes looked like on some other "garage
built" Rebels out there.
Jesse




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Jesse Jenks

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Thanks Del,
Yes, at least one side of every hole is good.
Jesse
From: "Schmucker, Del" <del.schmucker@kpdsb.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 13:16:12 -0500

Jesse:

I assume that one side of the bolt is fine so remember that you have 10
joints that are in shear mode you have one of those 10 that is not full
strength. So even if you are getting 50% strength out of your one joint
you will have 95% strength overall.

Thank you,

Del Schmucker

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse Jenks
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 10:49 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Thanks for the insight Ken,
I had the bushing or doubler ideas too. Either one would require some
careful designing, but may be an option. I have also already drilled out
the
second hole on the outboard end for 5/16 tiedown bolt/pad eye. On the
bright
side, all of my inboard most holes (hole in the skinniest part of the
block)
are good at 1/4", so if I drill out the rest to 5/16" edge distance
shouldn't be a problem. The next question if 5/16" bolts are approved,
is
how do I not F&^% that up? I am thinking of handing the whole thing to a

machinist friend.
Here is another idea for an easy fix, but it probably has no merit: Bed
the
bolts in structural epoxy to fill the small void. Epoxy mixed with
structural filler like flox should have an equal or better density to
aluminum and carry the load from the bolt to the strut. I know it sounds

hoaky, but who knows? I'll ask tech suport. Again, I should clarify that
I
have a good fit on the bolts except for the last little bit on one end.
We
are not talking about a really sloppy fit. After this experience, I
would be
very curious to see what these holes looked like on some other "garage
built" Rebels out there.
Jesse

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:18:11 -0400

As mentioned, MAM does sell a 5/16" bolt threaded full length tie down
ring so at least one 5/16 hole with no grip length (smooth shank for
shear) is OK especially if it is not the outboard most hole. Daryl
asked whether I had 5 bolts under the fairing (some guys have 4 due to
poor wording in the manual) when he looked at my aircraft though so
obviously he has some concern. Hopefully he will approve drilling them
all out for you. Another possibility (if the inner fitting is OK for
the
AN4 bolts) might be bushings in the strut only on the side that is
oval.
ie. I might consider fiitting a 3/8 diameter plug in the oval hole side
of the strut that is then drilled out to 1/4 with an oversize washer on
the bolt. Difficult to do but perhaps possible if replacement struts
are
not available. OTOH I think the general rule of thumb is 4 times
diameter for hole spacing which would require 1.5" hole spacing for the
bushings and I don't think we have that. A doubler on the strut could
also be considered though. However we all know that the easy and
conservative answer is to replace all the parts. Maybe someone with
another design can use shorter strut material? I drilled and reamed
these parts in a drill press and it was still surprising to me how easy
it would have been to break the drill bit. Aluminum cutting fluid is
recommended for these holes and clear the cuttings (withdraw the bit)
frequently. Oil is not ideal for drilling or cutting aluminum. I think
the little green 4 oz or so can that I use is labelled A-3 aluminum
cutting fluid.

The bolts are designed for sheer load to resist the lifting force of
the
wing. Comparatively litte little load is taken by the friction between
the two parts that results from tightening the nut and that is not even
normally considered when designing. Certainly all the bolts don't
normally share the load equally since the bolts are not precisely
interference fitted. However in an overload situation, as the metal
(aluminum) starts to deform, the load may tend to share fairly well.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
Thanks For the advice Ron.
I think anyone doing this step for the first time should take serious
pains
to get it right. The manual doesn't prep you adequately for drilling
such
deep holes in solid aluminum, and it's the first time you have to do
it
during the building process. I think it needs to be done completely
in a
drill press like you say, or a milling machine. I have a set of drill
bushings that I clamped to the strut, and that didn't even yield
perfect
results.
I am awaiting a reply from Murphy tech support to see what my options
are. I
really don't want to start over from scratch. It took me 2 days of
careful
fitting, measuring and drilling to get the struts made. Not to
mention I
had
the airframe out in the open driveway shared by my neighbors, with
one
wing
sticking in the garage so I wasn't able to close it up at night. Kids
playing around it etc. It was a bit worrying.
Ron, you mention some slop between the blocks and the strut. I had
almost
a
1/16" space, i.e. the blocks are 1.00", and the inside measurement of
the
strut is 1.050" or something like that. I made up some shims so I
have a
perfect fit. I didn't want to crush the strut down to fit the blocks.
With
everything bolted together with 3/16 bolts before I started the final
drilling, I am confident the alignment of the blocks was not
compromised.
It
is just the imperfect holes that I am worried about.
I would guess that the clamping pressure of the 5 bolts is what
creates
the
strength in the joint, rather than the bolts being purely sheer
loaded,
but
I'm no engineer, so I will let MAM tell me.
Jesse



the
pilot
doesn't
the
much
They're
the
first
put
to
in
to
end)
chose
drilled
struts
to
to
drill. I
saw
the
bolts
different
one



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Ken

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Definately drill it all at once with everything assembled. I think I
used large C clamps to squeeze it tight while drilling the first two
holes to 3/16. Then bolted it in with two AN3 bolts while I drilled the
middle 3 holes out to final size. Then put the 3 AN4 bolts in and did
the remaining. I doubt that your friend has a boring bar that will do
such small holes. Normal drill press with lubricant should do this job
just fine though. It is just too difficult to apply even pressure with
a hand drill and keep the drill perpendicular when drilling thick
material IMO. I like to ream about the last 5 to 10 thou out to final
size with an undersize reamer.

After drilling the first two holes it doesn't hurt to mount them on the
aircraft again to confirm alignment.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
I know, it's funny that a drill bit is one of the more tricky tools to use
correctly, and not the best thing for making a good hole. I think if I end
up enlarging the holes, I will get my friend to do it with a boring tool in
a milling machine. I don't think I would make custom fittings. It would be
easier to just start over with new parts from MAM. If I do that, can you
describe the technique that you used? If you drilled/reamed the fittings in
the drill press, at what point did you drill the holes in the struts, or did
you do everything together and somehow clamp the whole strut to your drill
press?
Thanks.
Jesse




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Ken

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

As mentioned, MAM does sell a 5/16" bolt threaded full length tie down
ring so at least one 5/16 hole with no grip length (smooth shank for
shear) is OK especially if it is not the outboard most hole. Daryl
asked whether I had 5 bolts under the fairing (some guys have 4 due to
poor wording in the manual) when he looked at my aircraft though so
obviously he has some concern. Hopefully he will approve drilling them
all out for you. Another possibility (if the inner fitting is OK for the
AN4 bolts) might be bushings in the strut only on the side that is oval.
ie. I might consider fiitting a 3/8 diameter plug in the oval hole side
of the strut that is then drilled out to 1/4 with an oversize washer on
the bolt. Difficult to do but perhaps possible if replacement struts are
not available. OTOH I think the general rule of thumb is 4 times
diameter for hole spacing which would require 1.5" hole spacing for the
bushings and I don't think we have that. A doubler on the strut could
also be considered though. However we all know that the easy and
conservative answer is to replace all the parts. Maybe someone with
another design can use shorter strut material? I drilled and reamed
these parts in a drill press and it was still surprising to me how easy
it would have been to break the drill bit. Aluminum cutting fluid is
recommended for these holes and clear the cuttings (withdraw the bit)
frequently. Oil is not ideal for drilling or cutting aluminum. I think
the little green 4 oz or so can that I use is labelled A-3 aluminum
cutting fluid.

The bolts are designed for sheer load to resist the lifting force of the
wing. Comparatively litte little load is taken by the friction between
the two parts that results from tightening the nut and that is not even
normally considered when designing. Certainly all the bolts don't
normally share the load equally since the bolts are not precisely
interference fitted. However in an overload situation, as the metal
(aluminum) starts to deform, the load may tend to share fairly well.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
Thanks For the advice Ron.
I think anyone doing this step for the first time should take serious pains
to get it right. The manual doesn't prep you adequately for drilling such
deep holes in solid aluminum, and it's the first time you have to do it
during the building process. I think it needs to be done completely in a
drill press like you say, or a milling machine. I have a set of drill
bushings that I clamped to the strut, and that didn't even yield perfect
results.
I am awaiting a reply from Murphy tech support to see what my options are. I
really don't want to start over from scratch. It took me 2 days of careful
fitting, measuring and drilling to get the struts made. Not to mention I had
the airframe out in the open driveway shared by my neighbors, with one wing
sticking in the garage so I wasn't able to close it up at night. Kids
playing around it etc. It was a bit worrying.
Ron, you mention some slop between the blocks and the strut. I had almost a
1/16" space, i.e. the blocks are 1.00", and the inside measurement of the
strut is 1.050" or something like that. I made up some shims so I have a
perfect fit. I didn't want to crush the strut down to fit the blocks. With
everything bolted together with 3/16 bolts before I started the final
drilling, I am confident the alignment of the blocks was not compromised. It
is just the imperfect holes that I am worried about.
I would guess that the clamping pressure of the 5 bolts is what creates the
strength in the joint, rather than the bolts being purely sheer loaded, but
I'm no engineer, so I will let MAM tell me.
Jesse



From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:48:26 -0700

Jesse,

Yes, been there. The problem is just that when drilling up sizes, the
hand drill doesn't stay straight. You think that with a full 3/16" pilot
hole already in the block, it should, but over that distance, it doesn't
-- at least not consistently. You may also find at this point that the
block has changed its angle to the strut somewhat. It doesn't take much
before the angle from fuse to wing is off quite a ways, putting
unacceptable loads on the fittings.

I would suggest you get another strut and block and start over. They're
not outrageously expensive. I found I needed to do ALL drilling of the
block in the drill press. Also, when drilling the second of the first
two holes in the strut through the strut, I found it was helpful to put
a tight C-clamp (protecting the strut finish with some thin rubber)
around the block/strut while the block was still on the plane, just to
make sure I was holding the proper angle of the block to strut.
Otherwise the block, which has a loose fit in the strut, will wiggle in
its perpendicular orientation to the strut, which also contributes to
mis-aligned holes.

I drilled one hole on each side to 5/16" (second from top of wing end)
because I needed 5/16" for a stainless D-ring cap nut fitting I chose
for the tie-down, but I don't think all the holes should all be drilled
that size.

Ron


Jesse Jenks wrote:

Hi guys,
Here's my latest dilemma: I started up drilling the holes in the struts

that

go through the ends of the strut and fitting block. I had done up to

3/16 in

the drill press (blocks only, not struts), so I had straight holes to

start

with. I bolted them together with a couple 3/16 bolts and started

drilling

the other holes up a couple drill sizes at a time with a hand drill. I
finished with a .248 reamer, and everything looked good, until I saw the
back side of the holes. The holes wandered off center a bit. The bolts

fit

tight, but on the back side the hole is oblong. Imagine two different

holes

starting from the same point, and finishing at slightly different

points.

It's not that bad though, like I said the bolts are snug, but on one

face or

the other the bolt is not fully engaging the strut material.
I have three options as I see it:
1) build new struts
2) drill out to 5/16
C) not worry about it.

Anyone been there and done that?

Thanks
Jesse





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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

I have an adjustable height work table on casters that I use as a support
when drilling long things with my drill press. One thing I haven't seen
mentioned in this thread is when drilling a long hole you need to make sure
the chips are clearing properly sometimes you need to use a pecking motion
to bring the chips up out of the hole.

At 01:41 PM 9/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:
I know, it's funny that a drill bit is one of the more tricky tools to use
correctly, and not the best thing for making a good hole. I think if I end
up enlarging the holes, I will get my friend to do it with a boring tool in
a milling machine. I don't think I would make custom fittings. It would be
easier to just start over with new parts from MAM. If I do that, can you
describe the technique that you used? If you drilled/reamed the fittings in
the drill press, at what point did you drill the holes in the struts, or did
you do everything together and somehow clamp the whole strut to your drill
press?
Thanks.
Jesse
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:01:23 -0400

I consider the epoxy metal repair products as mostly placebos that make
one feel better but don't really do anything structurally. I haven't had
positive experiences with them on other things and they are usually only
about a tenth as strong as aluminum.

It can be difficult to drill an oval hole without the bit chattering
resulting in an even larger oval hole. I like to file an oval hole
mostly round before putting a larger bit or reamer through. That way the
larger bit is guided to stay centered. Drill bits are remarkably
flexible and have a tendancy to wander off sideways if given an excuse
to do so. New good quality bits or ones carefully machine sharpened
equally on both sides may give better results and chatter less.

Another possibility might be to custom make larger strut fittings that
are a bit wider and extend farther into the strut so that you can use
larger bolts and/or space them farther apart. Maybe not even put a bolt
in some of the existing oval holes. MAM once told me that most of the
structural fitting were 2024 aluminum not 6061 which would bump the cost
though if true.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
Thanks for the insight Ken,
I had the bushing or doubler ideas too. Either one would require some
careful designing, but may be an option. I have also already drilled out
the
second hole on the outboard end for 5/16 tiedown bolt/pad eye. On the
bright
side, all of my inboard most holes (hole in the skinniest part of the
block)
are good at 1/4", so if I drill out the rest to 5/16" edge distance
shouldn't be a problem. The next question if 5/16" bolts are approved, is
how do I not F&^% that up? I am thinking of handing the whole thing to a
machinist friend.
Here is another idea for an easy fix, but it probably has no merit: Bed
the
bolts in structural epoxy to fill the small void. Epoxy mixed with
structural filler like flox should have an equal or better density to
aluminum and carry the load from the bolt to the strut. I know it sounds
hoaky, but who knows? I'll ask tech suport. Again, I should clarify that
I
have a good fit on the bolts except for the last little bit on one end.
We
are not talking about a really sloppy fit. After this experience, I would
be
very curious to see what these holes looked like on some other "garage
built" Rebels out there.
Jesse




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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Jesse,

Ken's right, of course, that ideally you'd do all the drilling in the
press while keeping everything clamped together. But that can be hard to
do if the drill press is small or won't easily accommodate enough clamps
of this size while you're schlepping this 5 ft. long hunk of metal
around, and you still need to keep things carefully pinned and bolted at
every stage because clamps can get bumped and slip out of position when
you least expect it.

I'm writing up how I redid my struts in major, explicit (long-winded)
detail and will post it here in another hour or two. I'm sorry I didn't
do it a couple months ago. It might have helped you or others avoid
making the same mistake(s) I did.

Back in a bit.

Ron


Jesse Jenks wrote:
...
It would be
easier to just start over with new parts from MAM. If I do that, can you
describe the technique that you used?

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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

[NOTE/WARNING! - The following _is_ excruciatingly detailed on purpose,
therefore appallingly long-winded, as only I can do so well, so often.
Unless you really like to suffer and/or really want to double check the
suggested technique, if you've already done the struts successfully,
save yourself! Skip it! :-) ]

Jesse,

This is what I did the second time around. This _is_ a helluva lot of
work, especially when you're doing both struts. Miraculously, one of my
original struts somehow turned out fine the first time even though I
wasn't nearly this careful, so I only had to redo one. In hindsight,
that was pure luck -- shouldn't have happened. :-)

I'd suggest reading the whole thing through first to get the idea, then
follow it carefully as you do the job. Most of this will be obvious, but
a couple of things might not be. Those are the ones that might bite. For
me, having things described several different ways is the (only?) way I
learn. I hope it will help. Here goes:

After setting the dihedral and positioning the strut and blocks to be in
the middle of travel, both vertically along the strut, and side-to-side
in the wiggle room for each block, I clamped the lower block tight in
the strut, then drew a couple of crossing lines (do use a short straight
edge) to help check things weren't moving, then took the strut and
blocks off, then located the first hole (skinny block end) through the
top side of the strut. So far, more or less like the manual says, only
with tight clamps!

Inevitably, when you "find" this first hole, the block will be a smidgen
off from where your measurement showed it should be. That's why you have
to put the strut & blocks back on the fuse and reset everything again.
And you do have to reset the positions based on the location of this
first through-pinned hole that you've "found", because the angles
between the blocks and the strut are critical. Angle error at one end
will be magnified at the other end, and you'll end up with unacceptable
side-load or bending stresses on the attach points. So...

With the first 3/16" hole on the skinny end pinned through the top of
the strut (I used multiple 3/16" drill bits for pins) -- and still
clamped! -- I put the assembly _back_ on the fuse to recheck the block
position & angle (middle of travel). Then I tightened down the clamp
_again_. (Don't forget to triple check the wing dihedral at that point,
as well as the positioning of top block. Personally, I also checked and
re-checked my fuse leveling, fore and aft and sideways. I didn't want to
have to do this three times!) With the bottom block securely pinned in
the first hole _and_ clamped, I took the assembly off the airplane,
being careful not to bump the clamps.

I then measured for the second hole at the other end of the block. The
next point should be obvious, but I almost blew it once. Don't forget
the geometry of the block inside the strut. To keep the bolt line in the
middle of the block, the line you draw for the rest of the holes is not
parallel to the either side of the block! It splits the angle that the
sides of the block make, so be sure to draw it from the center of the
first hole on the skinny end, to the center of the block where it comes
out of the end of the strut.

With the second hole located, I drilled through the top side of the
strut to mark the second hole in the block. I think this "marking" can
be done carefully with just a steady hand drill. You're only drilling
about 3/16" of material in total -- not much room for wandering drill
chatter to happen. Then I disassembled everything and drilled the first
two 3/16" holes through the block (only) on the press -- but only after
first making darn sure the drill press setup was well clamped and square
-- before drilling each hole!

[TIP: To keep the block from rocking over/into the center hole of your
drill press vise, put a strip of scrap 1/8" aluminum bar stock under the
block to support it, then clamp the block in the vise both sideways and
top/bottom, and you can just drill into or through the bar stock, which
gives a solid footing to keep the block from rocking into the vise center.]

With the block and strut back together, I then placed a 3/16" drill bit
"pin" in both holes, through the top of the strut and the block, so the
pins rested on the inside of the bottom of the strut, then clamped
again. Remember, "clamped" means that block cannot wiggle at all.

Then I removed one of the pins and, using the 3/16" hole in the block as
a guide for the bit, let the bit slide down the existing hole, and
_carefully_ drilled down through the bottom of the strut. I just used a
hand drill. The bit isn't going to wiggle/chatter much if it's already
an inch and a half down a tight hole, and only has to go through 1/8"
more of the strut bottom. With one hole now completed all the way
through the block and strut, I bolted* that hole while keeping the clamp
also still tightly in place, then pulled the second "long pin" out, and
drilled the second hole through the bottom of the strut. Then I bolted
the second hole, and now had the two outer 3/16" holes bolted through --
tightly.

[*NOTE: Whenever "bolting" in this procedure, be sure you actually use a
washer and nut on the bolt and snug it up. It's probably a "duh" point,
but... there's a temptation to drop two bolts into the holes and think
everything is lined up and it should be enough, but... it's not. The
block will wiggle, the bolts will wiggle, and you'll be doing this a
third time. So "bolted" means it's snugged up tight enough to fully
"clamp" the strut and block together.]

Then I shallow "marked" the other three 3/16" holes from the top with
just a hand drill, took everything apart and drilled those three holes
through the block alone on the press -- but again, only after making
very certain the drill press setup was correct and secure. I then
re-bolted the _same first two holes_ that were already completely
drilled all the way through the strut, and drilled the last three
(middle) holes through the bottom of the strut. At that point I had a
complete set of (5) 3/16" holes all the way through that were straight.

From there on, I enlarged ("marked") the middle three holes with a 1/4"
bit through the top of the strut and just down about 1/8" into the block
(with the outer two 3/16" holes still bolted tight) -- just far enough
to be able to "find" and center those holes well in the press. I then
completed enlarging those three middle holes in the block to 1/4" on the
press, then bolted the outer two holes again, drilled the middle three
1/4" holes down through the strut bottom, then "marked" the two outside
holes to 1/4" size, disassembled and finished drilling the last two
holes to 1/4" on the press, then re-bolted the center holes, and
finished the outer two 1/4" holes through the bottom of the strut.

Repeat the process in detail for other blocks.

In essence, whenever you're drilling the pieces together, they must be
secured in two places, first by clamps, and then by bolts. When you get
to a point where you can always bolt at least two holes, then just
alternate the sets of holes that are bolted until you get them all done.
It will come out well that way, as long as you're careful to securely
clamp/stabilize the block whenever it's in the press, and carefully snug
up the bolts in between drill press runs. This is very time consuming,
but that's good! :-) You have to take your time and double check, triple
check the stability before you drill any of the holes -- at every stage.

I hope this is clear enough to help somebody get this done right the
first (or second) time. Please email or call me if anything isn't clear,
or if you have any questions at all.

Ron
254R
360-681-7160



Jesse Jenks wrote:
I know, it's funny that a drill bit is one of the more tricky tools to use
correctly, and not the best thing for making a good hole. I think if I end
up enlarging the holes, I will get my friend to do it with a boring tool in
a milling machine. I don't think I would make custom fittings. It would be
easier to just start over with new parts from MAM. If I do that, can you
describe the technique that you used? If you drilled/reamed the fittings in
the drill press, at what point did you drill the holes in the struts, or did
you do everything together and somehow clamp the whole strut to your drill
press?
Thanks.
Jesse

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Jesse Jenks

[rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Thanks Ron, Ken, and Drew,
I just got a reply from MAM tech support and posted it. They say it's OK to
go to 5/16" on all bolts, so I will try that. I think I will try to get the
whole thing square on the drill press and do it that way. Hopefully the
holes are not so far off center that 5/16 won't clean it up. Ron, thanks for
the full write up. If this doesn't work, that will be plan B.
Jesse


From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] strut fitting bolts
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:32:06 -0700

Jesse,

Ken's right, of course, that ideally you'd do all the drilling in the
press while keeping everything clamped together. But that can be hard to
do if the drill press is small or won't easily accommodate enough clamps
of this size while you're schlepping this 5 ft. long hunk of metal
around, and you still need to keep things carefully pinned and bolted at
every stage because clamps can get bumped and slip out of position when
you least expect it.

I'm writing up how I redid my struts in major, explicit (long-winded)
detail and will post it here in another hour or two. I'm sorry I didn't
do it a couple months ago. It might have helped you or others avoid
making the same mistake(s) I did.

Back in a bit.

Ron


Jesse Jenks wrote:
...
It would be
easier to just start over with new parts from MAM. If I do that, can you
describe the technique that you used?

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