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[rebel-builders] flap mods 0235 rebel

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 pm
by Jean Poirier
Hello

In the files, there is a lot of discussion about that... all the "Rebel
Master" recommendation is to keep flaperons... so why? It could be ok,
just want to know why?

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

[rebel-builders] flap mods 0235 rebel

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 pm
by Mike Kimball
If you do decide to do that, I have a Super Rebel flap torque tube you can
have if it is of any help. Probably not since the Rebel and SR are
distictly different with respect to flaps/flaperons, and the cabin width
must be smaller on a Rebel, but it's a nice torque tube with horns on each
end, painted black that I have no use for. For that matter, anyone with an
SR/Moose that has need of stock flap parts, I have most of it since I did
the roof mounted flap thing.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
petergibbs@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:47 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] flap mods 0235 rebel

I want to split the flaps from the ailerons and electrically power them,I
have
spoken to murphy , they say they have no plans for electric flaps but there
is
a split flap mod that they emailed me, My basic idea was to fit a second
torque tube across the fuz in line with the flap hinge point,connect it to
the
flaps by the existing horns and power them via a small screw ram in the
cabin, has anyone seen or done similar, I have no wish to reinvent the
wheel!!



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[rebel-builders] flap mods 0235 rebel

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 pm
by bransom
FWIW I have spoken to one more Rebel "master" who likes his Rebel as a
split flap/aileron. I don't think he'd mind my identifying him -- Steve
Sloan. IIRC he says he feels the roll rate is better and he can more easily
lift one float off the water, i.e. when trying to unstick and get flying. I
personally have kept with the full flaperon recommendations, but thought
I'd point out another view anyhow.
-Ben

[quote]Hello

In the files, there is a lot of discussion about that... all the "Rebel
Master" recommendation is to keep flaperons... so why? It could be ok,
just want to know why?

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

[rebel-builders] flap mods 0235 rebel

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 pm
by Robert Johnson
Hi Mike: Just for information, having constructed both Rebel and Moose, they
are identical on cabin width of 44". Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] flap mods 0235 rebel

If you do decide to do that, I have a Super Rebel flap torque tube you can
have if it is of any help. Probably not since the Rebel and SR are
distictly different with respect to flaps/flaperons, and the cabin width
must be smaller on a Rebel,
Mike 044SR





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[rebel-builders] flap mods 0235 rebel

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 pm
by Bob Patterson
Hi Ben !

Steve has a superb Rebel - but it's a LONG way from a
'standard' Rebel, and his split flap setup is quite different
from the factory rig..... had to say that to be fair to
Peter. I had the opportunity to check out Steve's setup
at Arlington - he has done some brilliant engineering work !
That said, both the quality of the work, and the skills to
use it properly without endangering yourself or the
airplane, are definitely Steve's expertise, and might well
be beyond most builders - <I > certainly would have to
sharpen up a lot to use it properly, especially in busy
airspace !! By careful planning, Steve has designed a
system that gives him the best features of both separate
ailerons, and the flapperons, by manually adjusting the
droop of each to suit conditions. Peter would not get
that with the stock setup.

I've flown a Rebel with the exact setup Peter asks about -
it was horrible, compared to a standard flapperon Rebel.
Even the builder called it an "STO... - not 'L' " - it had
half the aileron and half the flap, so could not be landed short,
or well in a crosswind. He also lost the increased cruise
and better handling in bumpy conditions, because he
couldn't have negative flapperon. The electrics were a
pain, as well, with no speed or stop control. For MOST builders,
I'd still strongly recommend sticking to the full span
flapperons - it'll fly better, and you'll save months of
building anguish !!

Just "GET IT FLYING" !! You can modify it LATER -
if you can ever stop smiling long enough !!! ;-) :-)


--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 03 August 2007 01:02, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
[quote]FWIW I have spoken to one more Rebel "master" who likes his Rebel as a
split flap/aileron. I don't think he'd mind my identifying him -- Steve
Sloan. IIRC he says he feels the roll rate is better and he can more easily
lift one float off the water, i.e. when trying to unstick and get flying. I
personally have kept with the full flaperon recommendations, but thought
I'd point out another view anyhow.
-Ben

[quote]Hello

In the files, there is a lot of discussion about that... all the "Rebel
Master" recommendation is to keep flaperons... so why? It could be ok,
just want to know why?

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

[rebel-builders] flap mods 0235 rebel

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 pm
by bransom
Bob, Thanks for the clarification. I certainly didn't look or know enf to
look at what Steve has done beyond seeing them split and asking his opinion
wrt performance. Interesting to hear about the added tricks there.
-Ben

On 8/2/2007 5:24 PM, beep@sympatico.ca wrote to rebel-builders:
[quote]
Hi Ben !

Steve has a superb Rebel - but it's a LONG way from a
'standard' Rebel, and his split flap setup is quite different
from the factory rig..... had to say that to be fair to
Peter. I had the opportunity to check out Steve's setup
at Arlington - he has done some brilliant engineering work !
That said, both the quality of the work, and the skills to
use it properly without endangering yourself or the
airplane, are definitely Steve's expertise, and might well
be beyond most builders - <I > certainly would have to
sharpen up a lot to use it properly, especially in busy
airspace !! By careful planning, Steve has designed a
system that gives him the best features of both separate
ailerons, and the flapperons, by manually adjusting the
droop of each to suit conditions. Peter would not get
that with the stock setup.

I've flown a Rebel with the exact setup Peter asks about -
it was horrible, compared to a standard flapperon Rebel.
Even the builder called it an "STO... - not 'L' " - it had
half the aileron and half the flap, so could not be landed short,
or well in a crosswind. He also lost the increased cruise
and better handling in bumpy conditions, because he
couldn't have negative flapperon. The electrics were a
pain, as well, with no speed or stop control. For MOST builders,
I'd still strongly recommend sticking to the full span
flapperons - it'll fly better, and you'll save months of
building anguish !!

Just "GET IT FLYING" !! You can modify it LATER -
if you can ever stop smiling long enough !!! ;-) :-)


--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 03 August 2007 01:02, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
[quote]FWIW I have spoken to one more Rebel "master" who likes his Rebel as a
split flap/aileron. I don't think he'd mind my identifying him -- Steve
Sloan. IIRC he says he feels the roll rate is better and he can more easily
lift one float off the water, i.e. when trying to unstick and get flying. I
personally have kept with the full flaperon recommendations, but thought
I'd point out another view anyhow.
-Ben

[quote]Hello

In the files, there is a lot of discussion about that... all the "Rebel
Master" recommendation is to keep flaperons... so why? It could be ok,
just want to know why?

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

[rebel-builders] flap mods 0235 rebel

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 pm
by andrew dalgleish
FWIW I have spoken to one more Rebel "master" who likes his Rebel as a
split flap/aileron. I don't think he'd mind my identifying him -- Steve
Sloan. IIRC he says he feels the roll rate is better and he can more
easily lift one float off the water, i.e. when trying to unstick and get
flying. I personally have kept with the full flaperon recommendations, but
thought I'd point out another view anyhow.
-Ben
I did most of my float rating in a cessna 172. With it you needed full
aileron deflection to get a float unstuck then full opposite deflection
to get the other float off. With the rebel I usually just take off
straight ahead but if I'm loaded really heavy or it's glassy water I'll
lift one float first. All it takes is a small movement to instantly lift a
float and usually the other float comes away as well so that I take off in
a turn. I'm not sure how having half the control surface could make for an
increased roll rate.




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