[rebel-builders] Open windows

[Bob Patterson]

Hi Mike !

Some buffetting is normal with both windows open -
yours is likely a lot worse because the windows flip up,
into the airflow over the bottom of the wing, disturbing
a lot more air. Once the airflow was disturbed, it might
not want to re-attach ...

You could try just removing the windows & see if
that reduces the buffet. If so, you can then go ahead
& remove the doors ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 11 May 2007 01:50, Mike Betti wrote:

Hi again,
I tried opening a window in flight and it works pretty well. I have them
hinged at the top and they flip open to the wing. So then I left both
windows open and made a take off. Wasn't bad at first. I then slowed down
some and noticed some panels behind me oil canning. I tried speeding back
up and down but couldn't stop it. The whole cabin was puffing or pounding,
I could feel it in the headsets, some sort of oscillations. I had to close
the windows finally. Any ideas what was going on here, prop wash? I want to
remove the doors but a little leary about it now. Mike Betti
771E

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[Mike Betti]

I didn't make the windows too friendly for removal, bummer.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Open windows

Hi Mike !

Some buffetting is normal with both windows open -
yours is likely a lot worse because the windows flip up,
into the airflow over the bottom of the wing, disturbing
a lot more air. Once the airflow was disturbed, it might
not want to re-attach ...

You could try just removing the windows & see if
that reduces the buffet. If so, you can then go ahead
& remove the doors ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 11 May 2007 01:50, Mike Betti wrote:

Hi again,
I tried opening a window in flight and it works pretty well. I have them
hinged at the top and they flip open to the wing. So then I left both
windows open and made a take off. Wasn't bad at first. I then slowed down
some and noticed some panels behind me oil canning. I tried speeding back
up and down but couldn't stop it. The whole cabin was puffing or
pounding,
I could feel it in the headsets, some sort of oscillations. I had to
close
the windows finally. Any ideas what was going on here, prop wash? I want
to
remove the doors but a little leary about it now. Mike Betti
771E

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I fly around with my window open all the time...taking pictures at all
speeds....and it opens up. Yes buffeting at times...but that's what happens
when you pressurize a cone.

As for flying with the doors off....when I sold FOKM the first time to the
lad in Ottawa...he had a jeep that he took me for a drive in to get the
money from his house. No roof, no doors..3 friggin degrees out and him
wearin shorts!! He flew on floats all summer with both doors and windows
removed! Lost a few maps..but he had fun. Not my idea of fun if you can't
even have a map out in the cabin, or you get into a cold wet day on a
flight.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Open windows

Hi Mike !

Some buffetting is normal with both windows open -
yours is likely a lot worse because the windows flip up,
into the airflow over the bottom of the wing, disturbing
a lot more air. Once the airflow was disturbed, it might
not want to re-attach ...

You could try just removing the windows & see if
that reduces the buffet. If so, you can then go ahead
& remove the doors ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 11 May 2007 01:50, Mike Betti wrote:

Hi again,
I tried opening a window in flight and it works pretty well. I have them
hinged at the top and they flip open to the wing. So then I left both
windows open and made a take off. Wasn't bad at first. I then slowed down
some and noticed some panels behind me oil canning. I tried speeding back
up and down but couldn't stop it. The whole cabin was puffing or
pounding,
I could feel it in the headsets, some sort of oscillations. I had to
close
the windows finally. Any ideas what was going on here, prop wash? I want
to
remove the doors but a little leary about it now. Mike Betti
771E

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Mandatory in Canada...MUST have a pullable pin.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Open windows

I didn't make the windows too friendly for removal, bummer.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Open windows

Hi Mike !

Some buffetting is normal with both windows open -
yours is likely a lot worse because the windows flip up,
into the airflow over the bottom of the wing, disturbing
a lot more air. Once the airflow was disturbed, it might
not want to re-attach ...

You could try just removing the windows & see if
that reduces the buffet. If so, you can then go ahead
& remove the doors ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 11 May 2007 01:50, Mike Betti wrote:

Hi again,
I tried opening a window in flight and it works pretty well. I have them
hinged at the top and they flip open to the wing. So then I left both
windows open and made a take off. Wasn't bad at first. I then slowed
down
some and noticed some panels behind me oil canning. I tried speeding
back
up and down but couldn't stop it. The whole cabin was puffing or
pounding,
I could feel it in the headsets, some sort of oscillations. I had to
close
the windows finally. Any ideas what was going on here, prop wash? I want
to
remove the doors but a little leary about it now. Mike Betti
771E

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 08:50 PM 5/10/2007 -0500, you wrote:

Hi again,
I tried opening a window in flight and it works pretty well. I have them

hinged at the top and they flip open to the wing. So then I left both
windows open and made a take off. Wasn't bad at first. I then slowed down
some and noticed some panels behind me oil canning. I tried speeding back
up and down but couldn't stop it. The whole cabin was puffing or pounding,
I could feel it in the headsets, some sort of oscillations. I had to close
the windows finally. Any ideas what was going on here, prop wash? I want to
remove the doors but a little leary about it now.

Mike Betti
771E

I have the same problem with my rebel. It seems a lot worse with the
passenger window open than the pilots so I think it's got something to do
with the prop wash over the tail. I don't know if there's ant cure other
than what I do which is close the window while I'm on downwind for landing.
Drew



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[Garry Wright]

I experienced drumming as you describe with only one window open on
FOKM. With both open or the doors right off there is no problem. Its a
wee bit windy but reasonably comfortable if its warm outside. I did not
notice any particular relationship to rpm or engine load. I did have the
fabric barrier cutting off the tailcone in place, which could have
fairly dramatic effects on the drumming or lack thereof. I did it to
take some pictures of a failed dam near our home without worrying about
windows.

Garry


Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 08:50 PM 5/10/2007 -0500, you wrote:

Hi again,
I tried opening a window in flight and it works pretty well. I have them

hinged at the top and they flip open to the wing. So then I left both
windows open and made a take off. Wasn't bad at first. I then slowed down
some and noticed some panels behind me oil canning. I tried speeding back
up and down but couldn't stop it. The whole cabin was puffing or pounding,
I could feel it in the headsets, some sort of oscillations. I had to close
the windows finally. Any ideas what was going on here, prop wash? I want to
remove the doors but a little leary about it now.

Mike Betti
771E

I have the same problem with my rebel. It seems a lot worse with the
passenger window open than the pilots so I think it's got something to do
with the prop wash over the tail. I don't know if there's ant cure other
than what I do which is close the window while I'm on downwind for landing.
Drew



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[bransom]

Glad to hear this, as it shows a reason why it could work without
buffeting, simply by blocking the air with the fabric barrier. Cool, I
have always looked forward to occasionally bumping around without doors.
Comes from all that ultralight time (and hot summers).
-Ben

On 5/10/2007 6:26 PM, wrightdg@davincibb.net wrote to rebel-builders:

I experienced drumming as you describe with only one window open on
FOKM. With both open or the doors right off there is no problem. Its a
wee bit windy but reasonably comfortable if its warm outside. I did not
notice any particular relationship to rpm or engine load. I did have the
fabric barrier cutting off the tailcone in place, which could have
fairly dramatic effects on the drumming or lack thereof. I did it to
take some pictures of a failed dam near our home without worrying about
windows.

Garry


Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 08:50 PM 5/10/2007 -0500, you wrote:

Hi again,
I tried opening a window in flight and it works pretty well. I have them

hinged at the top and they flip open to the wing. So then I left both
windows open and made a take off. Wasn't bad at first. I then slowed down
some and noticed some panels behind me oil canning. I tried speeding back
up and down but couldn't stop it. The whole cabin was puffing or pounding,
I could feel it in the headsets, some sort of oscillations. I had to close
the windows finally. Any ideas what was going on here, prop wash? I want to
remove the doors but a little leary about it now.

Mike Betti
771E

I have the same problem with my rebel. It seems a lot worse with the
passenger window open than the pilots so I think it's got something to do
with the prop wash over the tail. I don't know if there's ant cure other
than what I do which is close the window while I'm on downwind for

landing.

Drew



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[michael betti]

I have a fabric tailcone curtain just behind the rear seat. I'm not
sure about the windows being hinged at the top causing some of this.
The windows stay open quite nicely don't seem to have any undue force
working against them. Maybe I will have to try just one door at a time.
I'm going to wait for a 90 F day for this.
Mike Betti

----Original Message----
From: bransom@dcsol.com
Date: 05/11/2007 11:33
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Open windows

Glad to hear this, as it shows a reason why it could work without
buffeting, simply by blocking the air with the fabric barrier. Cool,
I
have always looked forward to occasionally bumping around without
doors.
Comes from all that ultralight time (and hot summers).
-Ben

On 5/10/2007 6:26 PM, wrightdg@davincibb.net wrote to rebel-builders:

I experienced drumming as you describe with only one window open on
FOKM. With both open or the doors right off there is no problem. Its

a

wee bit windy but reasonably comfortable if its warm outside. I did

not

notice any particular relationship to rpm or engine load. I did have

the

fabric barrier cutting off the tailcone in place, which could have
fairly dramatic effects on the drumming or lack thereof. I did it

to

take some pictures of a failed dam near our home without worrying

about

windows.

Garry


Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 08:50 PM 5/10/2007 -0500, you wrote:

Hi again,
I tried opening a window in flight and it works pretty well. I

have them

hinged at the top and they flip open to the wing. So then I left

both

windows open and made a take off. Wasn't bad at first. I then

slowed down

some and noticed some panels behind me oil canning. I tried

speeding back

up and down but couldn't stop it. The whole cabin was puffing or

pounding,

I could feel it in the headsets, some sort of oscillations. I had

to close

the windows finally. Any ideas what was going on here, prop wash?

I want to

remove the doors but a little leary about it now.

Mike Betti
771E

I have the same problem with my rebel. It seems a lot worse with

the

passenger window open than the pilots so I think it's got

something to do

with the prop wash over the tail. I don't know if there's ant cure

other

than what I do which is close the window while I'm on downwind for

landing.

Drew



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