The Murphy Builders Site

No, no, and yes !! ;-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 09:17 PM 5/28/00 +1000, you wrote:

G'day

I have just finished installing the engine mounts, with all those rivets
and bolts, when suddenly I was was struck with the realization that the
whole engine was held in by those tiny shoulders on the Fus86.

Should those shoulders break, there goes your engine. None of those
bolts or rivets would stop the engine from tearing loose!

Is there any history of these failing? Has anyone fitted a secondary
device (eg cables) to restrain the engine? Am I worrying unnecessarily?

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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Sorry, Ian - just couldn't resist ! :-)

Seriously - those fittings are massive (especially compared to
what hold the engines into CessPools & the like). There have been NO
reports of failures of these fittings, or even cracking, in some
pretty abusive service. (FWIW - as of yesterday, we have 995 hr. on
the 912 Rebel prototype, which has only bent-up sheet metal brackets,
instead of those nice machined pieces you have ! NO problems !)

Aerobatic pilots often DO fit cables from the engine to the
airframe, so that, even if the mounts break, the weight of the
engine will still be attached far enough forward to allow some kind
of gliding descent. Pretty scary thought, but probably wise !!
The next question for the Rebel is - where would you fasten it ???!!!

Many components of MOST aircraft look like small & flimsy
things to be risking your life on, but, when you consider the strength
of the WHOLE assembly, they are amazingly strong. I have seen stacks
of sandbags hanging off the flap brackets attached to a Rebel wing
on a test stand !

If you really want a scare, have a look at what holds the
wings onto a Cessna 150 !!

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 09:17 PM 5/28/00 +1000, you wrote:

G'day

I have just finished installing the engine mounts, with all those rivets
and bolts, when suddenly I was was struck with the realization that the
whole engine was held in by those tiny shoulders on the Fus86.

Should those shoulders break, there goes your engine. None of those
bolts or rivets would stop the engine from tearing loose!

Is there any history of these failing? Has anyone fitted a secondary
device (eg cables) to restrain the engine? Am I worrying unnecessarily?

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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Your following message has been delivered to the 154 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 16:45:47 on 28 May 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ian as Bob has said in another reply, you wouldn't want to see what holds a
Cessna's engine on, if you are worried about the Rebels mounts!! A C182's
"bath tub" fittings are only about 5/32 thick with very sharp inside corners
and about 12 - 3/32 rivets holding them on for 230 to 300 H.P. I have the
remains of a crashed 1958 C182 in the back field and the "bath tub" fittings
look like new!! Your Rebel mounts will be just fine as supplied. The MAM 912
engine mount is usually just installed with 1/4" bolts to add some more
"fear" to you sleeping discomfort tonight. The Lyco mount is installed with
5/16 bolts. With the 100 H.P. 912, I would suggest that you drill out the
MAM mount (if you are using theirs) to 5/16 for the larger bolts, to take
the extra thrust available. Probably not necessary, but worth the extra
sleep!!!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Donaldson <allsure@primus.com.au>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, May 28, 2000 7:12 AM
Subject: Rebel engine mounts

G'day

I have just finished installing the engine mounts, with all those rivets
and bolts, when suddenly I was was struck with the realization that the
whole engine was held in by those tiny shoulders on the Fus86.

Should those shoulders break, there goes your engine. None of those
bolts or rivets would stop the engine from tearing loose!

Is there any history of these failing? Has anyone fitted a secondary
device (eg cables) to restrain the engine? Am I worrying unnecessarily?

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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Hi Ian

You should come & watch a few of my landings with the 0320 hanging way out
front. After you watch, you will no longer worry about the engine ripping
loose.

What I worried about was the amount of vibration coming into the cockpit
from the engine. This will also have a long term effect on the longevity
(SP?) of your installation. Again, I wasted my time worrying about things
that did not amount to a hill of beans as we say around here. As they keep
saying, build the Rebel as close as possible to plans, use good careful
practice & you will enjoy this great airplane for a long time.

What makes me say this is that I had another wonderful long flight in the
Rebel yesterday & then asked myself 'Why am I not flying this thing more?'.
It is great to fly this airplane where this is some much room, such a great
climb & reasonable cruise speed. This airplane seems to be getting a bit
faster - Wayne or Bob does this make sense i.e. is the engine breaking in &
producing more HP?

Happy building

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 9:58 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Rebel engine mounts



No, no, and yes !! ;-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 09:17 PM 5/28/00 +1000, you wrote:

G'day

I have just finished installing the engine mounts, with all those rivets
and bolts, when suddenly I was was struck with the realization that the
whole engine was held in by those tiny shoulders on the Fus86.

Should those shoulders break, there goes your engine. None of those
bolts or rivets would stop the engine from tearing loose!

Is there any history of these failing? Has anyone fitted a secondary
device (eg cables) to restrain the engine? Am I worrying unnecessarily?

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

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Your following message has been delivered to the 154 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 23:28:08 on 28 May 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Engine could be breaking in and spinning up a little easier. Using the power
that was consumed seating rings etc, to now pull the plane a little harder.
The 912's do it! Or you could be starting to let it fly "itself" now that
you are getting more comfortable with it, instead of guiding it's path. Kind
of like adding the music in Iron Eagle 2 to go faster x-country in their
Jets!

A note on engine break-ins. I have proved once again that a new Zero'd
engine should be flown balls to the wall for the first 2 hour Minimum
flight, with only slight power changes to seat the rings etc. 19 hours on my
chrome cylinder'd O-320-C2A and I put in the first quart of Phillips 20W50
Mineral yesterday. It was actually down 2, but I only filled it back up to
the 7 quart mark! I had broken in my O-470-L in my old C182 about 7 years
ago the same way and it only used a quart every 15 hours. O-470's commonly
are considered normal and perfectly fine, eating 1 quart every 4 hours!!
Also used the same method when I test flew Howards Cermichrome cylinder'd
O-320-E2D. All you builders with your new engines sitting waiting for their
day, be sure to only run up for short period to check everything for leaks,
etc. Then push it to the runway threshold, fire it up, put the boots to it
and don't run it below 2400 R.P.M. for the first 2 hours. Change R.P.M.
about every 10 minutes by about 50 R.P.M. up and down from 2400 to full
power. (do not exceed redline of course) Do not make a flight any shorter
than this (if at all possible) or you will eat oil for ever. I usually see
the cylinder and oil temperatures drop at about 1 hour and 45 minutes,
signaling things have seated in!

Blues skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


-----Original Message-----
From: rebelair <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, May 28, 2000 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: Rebel engine mounts

Hi Ian

You should come & watch a few of my landings with the 0320 hanging way out
front. After you watch, you will no longer worry about the engine ripping
loose.

What I worried about was the amount of vibration coming into the cockpit
from the engine. This will also have a long term effect on the longevity
(SP?) of your installation. Again, I wasted my time worrying about things
that did not amount to a hill of beans as we say around here. As they keep
saying, build the Rebel as close as possible to plans, use good careful
practice & you will enjoy this great airplane for a long time.

What makes me say this is that I had another wonderful long flight in the
Rebel yesterday & then asked myself 'Why am I not flying this thing more?'.
It is great to fly this airplane where this is some much room, such a great
climb & reasonable cruise speed. This airplane seems to be getting a bit
faster - Wayne or Bob does this make sense i.e. is the engine breaking in &
producing more HP?

Happy building

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 9:58 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Rebel engine mounts



No, no, and yes !! ;-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 09:17 PM 5/28/00 +1000, you wrote:

G'day

I have just finished installing the engine mounts, with all those rivets
and bolts, when suddenly I was was struck with the realization that the
whole engine was held in by those tiny shoulders on the Fus86.

Should those shoulders break, there goes your engine. None of those
bolts or rivets would stop the engine from tearing loose!

Is there any history of these failing? Has anyone fitted a secondary
device (eg cables) to restrain the engine? Am I worrying unnecessarily?

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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Just a thought since you have to put a ground (earth) between the engine
and the airframe anyhow, It could just as well be safety cables!

At 09:11 PM 5/29/2000 +1000, you wrote:

G'day

Thanks bobp for your reply. Sometime I will get down to the local
airport and check out how Cessnas (etc) are put together.

I had thought of making up a short cable with lugs on each end, and
putting one lug under the head of an engine mount bolt, and the other
end onto one of the small bolts that go through the mount assembly.
Quick, cheap and easy, but how effective?

I have little doubt that as a package the Rebel is quite strong, but
those mounts just worried me a little.

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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Doug Martin
greyghost@powernet.net
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G'day

I have just finished installing the engine mounts, with all those rivets
and bolts, when suddenly I was was struck with the realization that the
whole engine was held in by those tiny shoulders on the Fus86.

Should those shoulders break, there goes your engine. None of those
bolts or rivets would stop the engine from tearing loose!

Is there any history of these failing? Has anyone fitted a secondary
device (eg cables) to restrain the engine? Am I worrying unnecessarily?

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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It's possibly that the engine IS breaking in more - are you getting
a few more rpm ?? The 912's take a LONG time to break in - I was able
to increase the prop pitch after 200 hours, 400 hours, and again at
600 hours !! The Lycomings don't usually take that long, but it could
be getting a little 'happier' !

As Wayne suggests, it could also be that you're flying a bit
more 'relaxed' now. The Rebel does have a "step", which gives a bit
more cruise - it's not easy to find or hold, but it gets easier as you
get more time in the air.

Flying on the Rebel Ramble to the 'Wet' Coast will REALLY confirm
your love for the Rebel - and give you the opportunity to "fly it
some more" !! ;-)

See you at the Ramble Planning Meeting Sunday morning (11 am). ! :-)

.....bobp

--------------------------orig.-------------------------------------------
At 09:56 PM 5/28/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Ian

You should come & watch a few of my landings with the 0320 hanging way out
front. After you watch, you will no longer worry about the engine ripping
loose.

What I worried about was the amount of vibration coming into the cockpit
from the engine. This will also have a long term effect on the longevity
(SP?) of your installation. Again, I wasted my time worrying about things
that did not amount to a hill of beans as we say around here. As they keep
saying, build the Rebel as close as possible to plans, use good careful
practice & you will enjoy this great airplane for a long time.

What makes me say this is that I had another wonderful long flight in the
Rebel yesterday & then asked myself 'Why am I not flying this thing more?'.
It is great to fly this airplane where this is some much room, such a great
climb & reasonable cruise speed. This airplane seems to be getting a bit
faster - Wayne or Bob does this make sense i.e. is the engine breaking in &
producing more HP?

Happy building

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 9:58 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Rebel engine mounts



No, no, and yes !! ;-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 09:17 PM 5/28/00 +1000, you wrote:

G'day

I have just finished installing the engine mounts, with all those rivets
and bolts, when suddenly I was was struck with the realization that the
whole engine was held in by those tiny shoulders on the Fus86.

Should those shoulders break, there goes your engine. None of those
bolts or rivets would stop the engine from tearing loose!

Is there any history of these failing? Has anyone fitted a secondary
device (eg cables) to restrain the engine? Am I worrying unnecessarily?

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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Archives located at:
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G'day

bobp & Wayne

Oh I guess that I am just a born worrier!

The factory mounts for the Rotax are drilled to take 5/16 bolts.

I can now sleep easier (maybe).

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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G'day

Thanks bobp for your reply. Sometime I will get down to the local
airport and check out how Cessnas (etc) are put together.

I had thought of making up a short cable with lugs on each end, and
putting one lug under the head of an engine mount bolt, and the other
end onto one of the small bolts that go through the mount assembly.
Quick, cheap and easy, but how effective?

I have little doubt that as a package the Rebel is quite strong, but
those mounts just worried me a little.

Regards

Ian Donaldson

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