The Murphy Builders Site

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Hi Bob.
Look at the attached tank used on the new Cessnas. The only thing different
from the Rebel tank is the yellow color, some kind of primer, not sure if it
is alodine or something else.
When mixing ProSeal follow instruction and use degreased tools and dishes.
Watch for condensation and air tool oil spray.

Have fun building!

Paul Kucera
Rebel 453R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J. Brennan" <rbrennan@mtaonline.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 5:54 PM
Subject: New Member

Hi All,
This is my first note to the Rebel Builders web site. I talked to
the patron saint of Rebel Builders, Bob Patterson, at Oshkosh 1999.
I have Rebel Kit 429. I started construction in Minnesota, and then
moved to the Chugiak, Alaska in 1996. My Rebel is now in its third
house/garage workshop. Moving to a new home sure slows building. I
also bought a 1966 Citabria 7ECA to explore Alaska in while I was
building. On the first annual, I had to buy a new rudder and right
elevator frame and recover them. It also needed a legal radio and
GPS. It reminded me why I ordered the Rebel kit in the first place.
I wanted to have a new airframe, not a 35 year old one. So far I have
built the control surfaces, vertical and horizontal stabs and have
started on the wings. I have a question on the fuel tanks. I met a
gentleman in Oshkosh some years back who built aluminum fuel tanks on
his Rebel. He was from Texas. I know MAM does not support this because
it removes ribs in the wing bays. It does stop the fuel leaks,
however. Has anyone else made aluminum tanks or is the traditional
wet wing and proseal process the best? Is the standard fuel tanks
enough fuel and range for the northern lattitudes where gas can be
expensive and sometimes hard to find? I plan on using a O-320 engine.
Since I have just finished rebuilding my work table, a note to Roger
Hoffman: My table is perhaps overbuilt, but it is solid. I made the
table in two 4X8 sections that slide together. The legs are 4X4 posts
and I have a 2X6 frame on 16 inch centers on the top to support the
plywood top and also on the bottom to hold the parts and boxes. It was
easy to build and level. Be sure to leave a overhang space of 1/2 to a
inch on the sides so you can clamp parts to the table to work on.
Finally, a question. I have been saving the builders tips on my hard
drive. Do I need to do this or are all the notes sent to the archives?
Thanks for all the great tips and encouragement.

Bob Brennan
Rebel 429
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

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I am getting ready to make the angles to plug the stringer cutouts and
noticed that if made to instruction specifications they will extend past the
stiffening swage. Should I make them smaller or try to get a good fit by
trying to bend them to lay flush on the rib?



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I just made them to fit on the flat parts of the rib. You just need to plug
the hole with metal as best you can so that the entire hole doesn't have to
be plugged with a huge proseal dam. Anything you fabricate that closes the
hole off well so that the proseal doesn't have to do the whole job should
work. I have read on the list that you don't want the cut out for the
curved part of the stringer to fit too well because you want some proseal to
be able to squish in there and make a good seal.

Mike Kimball

-----Original Message-----
From: MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com [mailto:MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rebel582@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 3:23 PM
To: MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com
Subject: Fuel tank


I am getting ready to make the angles to plug the stringer cutouts and
noticed that if made to instruction specifications they will extend past the
stiffening swage. Should I make them smaller or try to get a good fit by
trying to bend them to lay flush on the rib?





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I just went through this happy excercise. I fitted the angles around the
stiffening swage so the angle is flat on the rib surface. There is no
other way to get a good seal. The swage contour can be easily cut on a
bandsaw with 1/4" blade and then finally filed to exact contour. the
easiest way I found to cut the "J" was with a Dremel tool and a 1/8"
diameter cylindrical carbide cutter. Also made a helpful "tool" from a
scrap of stringer to press up against the angle to mark the "J" dimension
to be cut. Be sure to "float" the angle on the stringer and let the
stringer position the angle on the rib. The stringer is closer to one side
of the rib cutout so be sure when you drill the rivet holes you drill into
the rib and not the cutout.
Ralph Baker
Elite 611E




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Ralph, I saw that you posted this message to both the "murphy-rebel" and the
"murphy-rebel-d" lists... thought I'd take a minute to explain how this
works. There are 2 lists for the purpose of defining how a member receives
their messages, either individually, or in blocks of 10. You are only a
member of one or the other. Both lists are associated with the same message
area on the system, so a message posted to either list will be distributed
to the members of both lists. I would imagine that you received an error
back from the system because you were not a member of one of the lists.

In the future all you have to do is post your message to the list you are a
member of. If you are replying, then the correct address will be filled in
for you. I know this is different than the old system, and a little
confusing now, but once you're used to sending to the correct address, it
should be pretty simple.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rbaker@sumter.net>
To: <MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com>
Cc: <murphy-rebel-d@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 6:52 PM
Subject: Fuel tank

I just went through this happy excercise. I fitted the angles around the
stiffening swage so the angle is flat on the rib surface. There is no
other way to get a good seal. The swage contour can be easily cut on a
bandsaw with 1/4" blade and then finally filed to exact contour. the
easiest way I found to cut the "J" was with a Dremel tool and a 1/8"
diameter cylindrical carbide cutter. Also made a helpful "tool" from a
scrap of stringer to press up against the angle to mark the "J" dimension
to be cut. Be sure to "float" the angle on the stringer and let the
stringer position the angle on the rib. The stringer is closer to one

side

of the rib cutout so be sure when you drill the rivet holes you drill into
the rib and not the cutout.
Ralph Baker
Elite 611E

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I'm working in this area now, also. I fabricated the stringer cutout clips
as Terry Dazey did his. If
you were to go to NW Rebel Experimental Aircraft site at the following link
you can see his
photograph:

http://beta.content.communities.msn.com ... ommunity=N
WRebelExperimentalAircraft&ID_Topic=14&ID_Message=115

R. Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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From: Rebel582@aol.com
Message-ID: <88.2c13319.27c7074a@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:22:34 EST
Subject: Fuel tank
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I am getting ready to make the angles to plug the stringer cutouts and
noticed that if made to instruction specifications they will extend past the
stiffening swage. Should I make them smaller or try to get a good fit by
trying to bend them to lay flush on the rib?

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank


Thanks Roger, but THIS is one of those stupid, arrogant web sites that
won't even let you see the pages unless you have the "latest & greatest"
web browser !!

I don't understand people who want the public to visit their
sites, then make it impossible !! Usually, they are Micro$oft victims,
who are so brainwashed they think M$ is the only O/S and browser mfg.
in the world !!

Sorry for the tirade - I've just had a day full of these idiots !

......bobp

----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
At 02:41 AM 2/24/01 GMT, you wrote:

I'm working in this area now, also. I fabricated the stringer cutout clips
as Terry Dazey did his. If
you were to go to NW Rebel Experimental Aircraft site at the following link
you can see his
photograph:

http://beta.content.communities.msn.com ... ow_photo&I

D_Community=N

WRebelExperimentalAircraft&ID_Topic=14&ID_Message=115

R. Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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From: Rebel582@aol.com
Message-ID: <88.2c13319.27c7074a@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:22:34 EST
Subject: Fuel tank
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 129

I am getting ready to make the angles to plug the stringer cutouts and
noticed that if made to instruction specifications they will extend past the
stiffening swage. Should I make them smaller or try to get a good fit by
trying to bend them to lay flush on the rib?

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Rebel 505

The root rib gussets are bent 90 deg. I made mine big enough to put two
rivets each side of flange and 3 rivets thru side of rib. In outer solid
tank rib again I bent mine 90 deg. long enough to get 2 rivets in flange on
each side.I drilled a 1/4 inch hole at a location which will allow the top
of the stringer to be flush with the rib flange on top.To do this you must
file the gusset down 1/16 in the centre the width of the stringer. I cut the
gusset to follow the curve of the buldge in tne rib. Put 3 rivets in side of
rib.
The corner gussets are well illustrated in the manual.
GOOD LUCK




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Gosh Bob... even Netscape on Linux will view these pages. That is if you're
at least running a version that's newer than that Lycosaurus technology
you're flying behind!

Sorry, but figured you've had a few days to cool off, so it should be safe
to pick on you a little.

By the way, I hope you noticed that the new archive site still supports
dinosaurs like you, while also offering truly usable features to those who
are even close to keeping up with the times. :-)

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <APAT@ISTAR.CA>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Fuel tank

Thanks Roger, but THIS is one of those stupid, arrogant web sites that
won't even let you see the pages unless you have the "latest & greatest"
web browser !!

I don't understand people who want the public to visit their
sites, then make it impossible !! Usually, they are Micro$oft victims,
who are so brainwashed they think M$ is the only O/S and browser mfg.
in the world !!

Sorry for the tirade - I've just had a day full of these idiots !

......bobp

----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
At 02:41 AM 2/24/01 GMT, you wrote:

I'm working in this area now, also. I fabricated the stringer cutout

clips

as Terry Dazey did his. If
you were to go to NW Rebel Experimental Aircraft site at the following

link

you can see his
photograph:

http://beta.content.communities.msn.com ... ow_photo&I
D_Community=N

WRebelExperimentalAircraft&ID_Topic=14&ID_Message=115

R. Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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From: Rebel582@aol.com
Message-ID: <88.2c13319.27c7074a@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:22:34 EST
Subject: Fuel tank
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
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I am getting ready to make the angles to plug the stringer cutouts

and

noticed that if made to instruction specifications they will extend

past the

stiffening swage. Should I make them smaller or try to get a good fit

by

trying to bend them to lay flush on the rib?

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank


Well - - I'm still having problems with my stupid ISP, and
CAN'T connect with LINUX <AT ALL> !!! So I've fallen back to
an old box with WinDoze 3.11, and Netscape 3.0 - works well on
many sites (at least, the thoughtful ones).

I can get onto the new dcsol site, and read archives, etc.,
but I DO get scattered .jpg icons over the text in places, and other
little anomalies. Part of this is because I run with Java and JavaScript
turned OFF - I really don't need flash & dazzle, OR viruses !!

Just a real old stick in the mud, I guess - still like plain
text interfaces. (Still do lots of work in FoxPro (NOT <visual>) !!)

Sorry - still haven't completely chilled ! Get tired of
fighting the M$ machine - but their days are numbered .... I think
even Bill G. realizes it's all downhill from here !! Thank goodness !!

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 11:01 PM 2/27/01 -0900, you wrote:

Gosh Bob... even Netscape on Linux will view these pages. That is if you're
at least running a version that's newer than that Lycosaurus technology
you're flying behind!

Sorry, but figured you've had a few days to cool off, so it should be safe
to pick on you a little.

By the way, I hope you noticed that the new archive site still supports
dinosaurs like you, while also offering truly usable features to those who
are even close to keeping up with the times. :-)

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <APAT@ISTAR.CA>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Fuel tank

Thanks Roger, but THIS is one of those stupid, arrogant web sites that
won't even let you see the pages unless you have the "latest & greatest"
web browser !!

I don't understand people who want the public to visit their
sites, then make it impossible !! Usually, they are Micro$oft victims,
who are so brainwashed they think M$ is the only O/S and browser mfg.
in the world !!

Sorry for the tirade - I've just had a day full of these idiots !

......bobp

----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
At 02:41 AM 2/24/01 GMT, you wrote:

I'm working in this area now, also. I fabricated the stringer cutout

clips

as Terry Dazey did his. If
you were to go to NW Rebel Experimental Aircraft site at the following

link

you can see his
photograph:

http://beta.content.communities.msn.com ... ow_photo&I
D_Community=N

WRebelExperimentalAircraft&ID_Topic=14&ID_Message=115

R. Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

and

past the

by

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Hello All

I am just getting a good start on my Rebel wings and have a couple of
questions about the fuel tank construction.



Does anyone have a good technique to get the tank ribs reasonably straight
and flat? Mine are really quite bent; due I am sure to all the cold forming
they are subjected to and without the cutouts the other ribs have to relive
the captured stress.



My previous project was a Glastar and because of its folding wing feature it
only has one fuel outlet per wing tank. The fuel capacity was 33 Gal. with
only 27 Gal. useable. In a descending glide with only 3 Gal's remaining in
each tank the fuel lines could un-port long enough to create temporary fuel
starvation. This problem finally became un-acceptable and Glastar's solution
was to add a small vented header tank in series and just down stream of each
wing tank. The header tank had sufficient fuel capacity to keep the engine
running until the nose was raised and the port would close and re-establish
fuel supply.



Since the Rebel also has only one fuel outlet port per tank, I wondered if
anyone has ever had a similar problem? If so what was the solution?




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I've cut 3"x5" hole on top of fuel tanks,0ne side is proseal ,the other is a light tan colour ,thin surface covering substance.Would this beType A brushable sealant or slosh coating. Rick 233R



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