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Wiggly flaperons !

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm
by Wayne G. O'Shea
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It also gets worse if you build too much "clearance" into the mixer arm
holder plates. This will allow the arm to rock (or twist in reality) between
the holders, which inturn allows the pushpull bellcrank to "tip" inward and
of course this lowers the pushpull tubes and then the flaperon. The tighter
you can keep the arm in the holder plates the better, just keep it
lubricated so the common metals don't gall on each other.

If someone was flying around with an unriveted tube plug/horn, they would
have rolled their plane up into a ball by now!!!!!!!!!!!

As always, my 2 cents,
Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 12:52 AM
Subject: Wiggly flaperons !

Hi All,
This talk of movement in the flaperon linkage must be a storm in
a teacup!

If you hold one of my flaperons solid on one side and move the other you
can
get virtually full movement too.

It is coming from the slack within the flaperon cable setup. Once you start
flying and the flaperons 'load up' and take all the slack out of the system
everything is all tight again.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



-----Original Message-----
From: rebelair <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: reply to Brian

HI Geert

As I recall, there are a total of eight of these plugs (EL-31?) fitted
into
the 2" torque tubes. These include the ones inside the cockpit. The
whole
concept of one or more of these plugs not riveted with the qty. 8, 3/16"
rivets is inconceivable/unthinkable!

I agree this is one of the very few reasons that there could be any
rotation
as you suggest. I am not disagreeing with you at all. I suppose that
maybe
that not all of the rivets were installed and the rivets could have
sheared
through the very thin wall tubing (which is only 0.035" I recall). This
is
the only thing that I could think of off the top of my head. This is just
something I never could have imagined. MAM used 3/16", qty. 8, stainless
steel rivets per joint for a good reason. You never would want this to
fail. Don't people check this kind of stuff during construction. It
really
makes you think twice about buying & flying somebody else's amateur built
aircraft. I am a strong supporter of the amateur built concept but it
does
rely strongly upon the inspectors & also the idea that the inspector is
very
familiar with the aircraft he is inspecting. A big job considering the
number of possible aircraft that can be built in this category.

Lets pray that there really is not 5 aircraft out there with this
problem!!
Please keep us posted if you hear anymore.

Thanks

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank [mailto:storchpilot@mediaone.net]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 10:51 AM
To: murphy archives
Subject: reply to Brian


Hi Brian, yeah it reads a little funny, but that is exactly what I am
suggesting. There cannot be any other way you can have aileron use in
flight
AND be able to do what he is apparently capable of doing. Those plugs as
you
correctly call them are a very tight or press fit into the tube, I SUPPOSE
that you could have one or two that were not rivetted AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE OF COURSE and precisely because of the press fit and therefore the
friction of the plug inside the tube, you could get the tube to move, read
rotate. If I am recalling right, there are six of those plugs with control
arms attached, three different lengths of torque tube and two plugs of
course per tube. Now you have been inside these aircraft a lot more than
most of us, maybe you can come up with another theory, exactly the reason
I
put it out there. OK? Needless to say, as he flies a little more,
the plug(s) will "wear" away some of the friction and we are looking at a
very bad situation. Regards, Geert

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Wiggly flaperons !

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm
by Bob Patterson
Hi Alister !
I think you've hit the important point - even if there
IS movement on the ground, everything works wonderfully in flight !!
There ARE things on the Rebel that AREN'T like OTHER aircraft, but
the results are GREAT !!!

Phil & Wayne have covered some reasons why this fellow might
think he's getting full deflection on the ground .... I just hope
he isn't doing all this cutting & hacking without actually just flying
the airplane !! He should just enjoy the flying, and not worry about
the appearance of slop.... unless he really HAS a very loose bellcrank !

....bobp

------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
At 04:50 PM 5/23/00 +1200, you wrote:
Hi All,
This talk of movement in the flaperon linkage must be a storm in
a teacup!

If you hold one of my flaperons solid on one side and move the other you can
get virtually full movement too.

It is coming from the slack within the flaperon cable setup. Once you start
flying and the flaperons 'load up' and take all the slack out of the system
everything is all tight again.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



-----Original Message-----
From: rebelair <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: reply to Brian

HI Geert

As I recall, there are a total of eight of these plugs (EL-31?) fitted into
the 2" torque tubes. These include the ones inside the cockpit. The whole
concept of one or more of these plugs not riveted with the qty. 8, 3/16"
rivets is inconceivable/unthinkable!

I agree this is one of the very few reasons that there could be any
rotation
as you suggest. I am not disagreeing with you at all. I suppose that
maybe
that not all of the rivets were installed and the rivets could have sheared
through the very thin wall tubing (which is only 0.035" I recall). This is
the only thing that I could think of off the top of my head. This is just
something I never could have imagined. MAM used 3/16", qty. 8, stainless
steel rivets per joint for a good reason. You never would want this to
fail. Don't people check this kind of stuff during construction. It
really
makes you think twice about buying & flying somebody else's amateur built
aircraft. I am a strong supporter of the amateur built concept but it does
rely strongly upon the inspectors & also the idea that the inspector is
very
familiar with the aircraft he is inspecting. A big job considering the
number of possible aircraft that can be built in this category.

Lets pray that there really is not 5 aircraft out there with this problem!!
Please keep us posted if you hear anymore.

Thanks

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank [mailto:storchpilot@mediaone.net]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 10:51 AM
To: murphy archives
Subject: reply to Brian


Hi Brian, yeah it reads a little funny, but that is exactly what I am
suggesting. There cannot be any other way you can have aileron use in
flight
AND be able to do what he is apparently capable of doing. Those plugs as
you
correctly call them are a very tight or press fit into the tube, I SUPPOSE
that you could have one or two that were not rivetted AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE OF COURSE and precisely because of the press fit and therefore the
friction of the plug inside the tube, you could get the tube to move, read
rotate. If I am recalling right, there are six of those plugs with control
arms attached, three different lengths of torque tube and two plugs of
course per tube. Now you have been inside these aircraft a lot more than
most of us, maybe you can come up with another theory, exactly the reason I
put it out there. OK? Needless to say, as he flies a little more,
the plug(s) will "wear" away some of the friction and we are looking at a
very bad situation. Regards, Geert

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Archives located at:
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---------*

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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
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Archives located at:
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Archives located at:
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Wiggly flaperons !

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm
by Alister Yeoman
Hi All,
This talk of movement in the flaperon linkage must be a storm in
a teacup!

If you hold one of my flaperons solid on one side and move the other you can
get virtually full movement too.

It is coming from the slack within the flaperon cable setup. Once you start
flying and the flaperons 'load up' and take all the slack out of the system
everything is all tight again.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



-----Original Message-----
From: rebelair <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: reply to Brian

HI Geert

As I recall, there are a total of eight of these plugs (EL-31?) fitted into
the 2" torque tubes. These include the ones inside the cockpit. The whole
concept of one or more of these plugs not riveted with the qty. 8, 3/16"
rivets is inconceivable/unthinkable!

I agree this is one of the very few reasons that there could be any
rotation
as you suggest. I am not disagreeing with you at all. I suppose that
maybe
that not all of the rivets were installed and the rivets could have sheared
through the very thin wall tubing (which is only 0.035" I recall). This is
the only thing that I could think of off the top of my head. This is just
something I never could have imagined. MAM used 3/16", qty. 8, stainless
steel rivets per joint for a good reason. You never would want this to
fail. Don't people check this kind of stuff during construction. It
really
makes you think twice about buying & flying somebody else's amateur built
aircraft. I am a strong supporter of the amateur built concept but it does
rely strongly upon the inspectors & also the idea that the inspector is
very
familiar with the aircraft he is inspecting. A big job considering the
number of possible aircraft that can be built in this category.

Lets pray that there really is not 5 aircraft out there with this problem!!
Please keep us posted if you hear anymore.

Thanks

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank [mailto:storchpilot@mediaone.net]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 10:51 AM
To: murphy archives
Subject: reply to Brian


Hi Brian, yeah it reads a little funny, but that is exactly what I am
suggesting. There cannot be any other way you can have aileron use in
flight
AND be able to do what he is apparently capable of doing. Those plugs as
you
correctly call them are a very tight or press fit into the tube, I SUPPOSE
that you could have one or two that were not rivetted AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE OF COURSE and precisely because of the press fit and therefore the
friction of the plug inside the tube, you could get the tube to move, read
rotate. If I am recalling right, there are six of those plugs with control
arms attached, three different lengths of torque tube and two plugs of
course per tube. Now you have been inside these aircraft a lot more than
most of us, maybe you can come up with another theory, exactly the reason I
put it out there. OK? Needless to say, as he flies a little more,
the plug(s) will "wear" away some of the friction and we are looking at a
very bad situation. Regards, Geert

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Archives located at:
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

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Archives located at:
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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




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