The Murphy Builders Site

Hi Tim: - Good question, but my experience (x3) says it is not worth the
extra effort. the flaperons get fabric covered with reinforcing taps which
also builds up the edge somewhat. If you use the thicker shims under the
hanger brackets there is very little "adjusting" to the trailing edge of the
wing skin to clear. In any event it is not a problem to adjust this edge for
proper clearance. I am just assembling a quick build Moose wing and aileron
and although the hinges line up perfectly (3 of them) the wing trailing edge
drags the aileron full length - some adjustment to do there. Have a good
St.Patties day also. - Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: <tjhickey@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Flaperons Question

Happy St. Patrick' Day.
(For you Australians, this is a religious excuse to drink beer) (Not that
one is
really needed, you know)

We are moving forward with the building of the Rebel flaperons and a fork
in
the road has presented itself.
There is a line of rivets across the top of the flaperon spar. According
to the
manual these are to be the 1/8" x 3/16" pulled rivets.

The fork in the road is this: Is there an advantage to use flush rivets
here? I
know that some builders have run into a clearance problem with the top of
the flaperon and the trailing edge of the wing skin when the flaperon is
in the
full "up" position. Using a flush rivet would allow for a little more room
in this
area. So that is the question.

Is it worthwhile to dimple and install flush rivets across the top of the
flaperon spar so as to minimize any interference with the rear of the wing
skin?

Tim Hickey
R808
Montrose, Iowa.







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I did not think I misunderstood, only mentioning - I will have to adjust. I
had to do the same thing on Rebels I have built. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz17086@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Flaperons Question

Bob,, You are miss understanding it,, that is MAM's gap seal. (Mine were
the
same way.) After some adjustment no more dragging of the flap to wing on
the
Moose.. Dale SR-033




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Hi Tim
I dimpled mine plus the whole leading edge of the flaperons and have only
one shim on the aileron hinge brackets with sufficient clearance. Think it
could have gone together with out any shims but everyone is a bit different
as to the slope of the top skin. If u remember Gilbert at the tent site last
summer in Osh, he is very close to completing his Elite and if I don't get a
call to fly floats this summer, we'll be going again. Picked up a Glastar
partially completed kit plus engine last week here in Alberta so I may be
calling Charlie from time to time.

Steve W 637R Plus Glastar

From: tjhickey@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Flaperons Question
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:52:33 -0800

Happy St. Patrick' Day.
(For you Australians, this is a religious excuse to drink beer) (Not that
one is
really needed, you know)

We are moving forward with the building of the Rebel flaperons and a fork
in
the road has presented itself.
There is a line of rivets across the top of the flaperon spar. According to
the
manual these are to be the 1/8" x 3/16" pulled rivets.

The fork in the road is this: Is there an advantage to use flush rivets
here? I
know that some builders have run into a clearance problem with the top of
the flaperon and the trailing edge of the wing skin when the flaperon is in
the
full "up" position. Using a flush rivet would allow for a little more room
in this
area. So that is the question.

Is it worthwhile to dimple and install flush rivets across the top of the
flaperon spar so as to minimize any interference with the rear of the wing
skin?

Tim Hickey
R808
Montrose, Iowa.







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_________________________________________________________________
Get Out Of The House - Ski, Skate & Sun
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Bob,, You are miss understanding it,, that is MAM's gap seal. (Mine were the
same way.) After some adjustment no more dragging of the flap to wing on the
Moose.. Dale SR-033




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For a contrarian opinion...
Why not dimple? It takes only a couple of minutes and reduces the
likelihood of abrading the covering over top of a rivet without
noticing. Probably doesn't matter from a safety point of view though.
Funny I remember dimpling about 4 rivets per rib but don't remember
dimpling along the spar line. Is the spar far enough forward for that
rivet line to actually slide under the top skin?? It might not be if I
remember correctly.
Ken

tjhickey@dcsol.com wrote:

Happy St. Patrick' Day.
(For you Australians, this is a religious excuse to drink beer) (Not that one is
really needed, you know)

We are moving forward with the building of the Rebel flaperons and a fork in
the road has presented itself.
There is a line of rivets across the top of the flaperon spar. According to the
manual these are to be the 1/8" x 3/16" pulled rivets.

The fork in the road is this: Is there an advantage to use flush rivets here? I
know that some builders have run into a clearance problem with the top of
the flaperon and the trailing edge of the wing skin when the flaperon is in the
full "up" position. Using a flush rivet would allow for a little more room in this
area. So that is the question.

Is it worthwhile to dimple and install flush rivets across the top of the
flaperon spar so as to minimize any interference with the rear of the wing
skin?

Tim Hickey
R808
Montrose, Iowa.

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Hi Steve Congratulation on the Glastar. Trike are tail dragger, how complete
is it, what engine & prop? Let me know if I can help.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Flaperons Question

Hi Tim
I dimpled mine plus the whole leading edge of the flaperons and have only
one shim on the aileron hinge brackets with sufficient clearance. Think it
could have gone together with out any shims but everyone is a bit
different
as to the slope of the top skin. If u remember Gilbert at the tent site
last
summer in Osh, he is very close to completing his Elite and if I don't get
a
call to fly floats this summer, we'll be going again. Picked up a Glastar
partially completed kit plus engine last week here in Alberta so I may be
calling Charlie from time to time.

Steve W 637R Plus Glastar

From: tjhickey@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Flaperons Question
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:52:33 -0800

Happy St. Patrick' Day.
(For you Australians, this is a religious excuse to drink beer) (Not that
one is
really needed, you know)

We are moving forward with the building of the Rebel flaperons and a fork
in
the road has presented itself.
There is a line of rivets across the top of the flaperon spar. According
to
the
manual these are to be the 1/8" x 3/16" pulled rivets.

The fork in the road is this: Is there an advantage to use flush rivets
here? I
know that some builders have run into a clearance problem with the top of
the flaperon and the trailing edge of the wing skin when the flaperon is
in
the
full "up" position. Using a flush rivet would allow for a little more room
in this
area. So that is the question.

Is it worthwhile to dimple and install flush rivets across the top of the
flaperon spar so as to minimize any interference with the rear of the wing
skin?

Tim Hickey
R808
Montrose, Iowa.







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Get Out Of The House - Ski, Skate & Sun
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Thanks Charlie
I haven't seen it yet. Purchased it with provisions that "is as
represented". A father and son, both aircraft engineers purchased the kit
about 4 years ago from a fellow in Ontario. They were impressed with the
workmanship and bought in on the spot when they flew out to assess it. They
crated the wings and built a cradle for the quick-build fuse. They bought a
shipping container and sent the whole kit to Ablerta. The father became ill
and passed away shortly after from cancer and the son hasn't got the courage
to work at it. It's been sitting in the container for the last three years.
They have an 0-320-B1C with 250 hrs left on it- exhaust- baffle and several
of the options. The dad overhauled the components and they put the usual
light weight starter and alternator on it. It's a trike. The fuselage is
the quick build and nothiing further has been done to that. I'm not even
sure about the tail section but I am assuming it is done. I know the wings
are up to the point of ready to mount for the control cables etc. I want an
0-360 with a CS prop and the next dream would be light weight composite
amphib floats. The son saw my add in Barnstormers looking for a kit and gave
me a call. What luck. The price was such that I couldn't pass it up and it
was just out of Alberta about an 8 hr drive from here. I was looking at one
in Phoenix which, from here, is quite a journey. The guy wanted 40,000. us
with an OH engine which was very questionable. I was going to slide a low
offer of 30Kus for all he had. The last two quick build kits that sold on
Barnstormers went for 18,5 and 21k us (no engines) and both were reported to
be excellent workmanship (only in the eye of the beholder of course) but
both sold in less than a week. I picked this one up for about 24k us with
engine and wing jigs etc. I am going to be extremely busy this coming
summer. Taking possession of a new shop with a large bungalo attached in
two weeks time and have to build a second storage garage/paint booth this
spring. Land scaping etc. Have been renting a condo for the lst 9 months
and had no place to do any work. Got so bored this winter, I stuck out a
bunch of resumes' for some float flying this summer. I may re-thing that
move! Also have two sets of floats to build. The pics of your Glastar are
beautiful. I'll be calling when I get to the interior. That was the only
fault I saw of other completed Glastars. You finished it off really nice.
Your right- you shouldn't have sold it! Take care Charlie and if I can be of
any help also give me shout or email.

Steve

From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Flaperons Question
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 17:21:41 -0500

Hi Steve Congratulation on the Glastar. Trike are tail dragger, how
complete
is it, what engine & prop? Let me know if I can help.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Flaperons Question

Hi Tim
I dimpled mine plus the whole leading edge of the flaperons and have

only

one shim on the aileron hinge brackets with sufficient clearance. Think

it

could have gone together with out any shims but everyone is a bit
different
as to the slope of the top skin. If u remember Gilbert at the tent site
last
summer in Osh, he is very close to completing his Elite and if I don't

get

a
call to fly floats this summer, we'll be going again. Picked up a

Glastar

partially completed kit plus engine last week here in Alberta so I may

be

calling Charlie from time to time.

Steve W 637R Plus Glastar

From: tjhickey@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Flaperons Question
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:52:33 -0800

Happy St. Patrick' Day.
(For you Australians, this is a religious excuse to drink beer) (Not

that

one is
really needed, you know)

We are moving forward with the building of the Rebel flaperons and a

fork

in
the road has presented itself.
There is a line of rivets across the top of the flaperon spar. According
to
the
manual these are to be the 1/8" x 3/16" pulled rivets.

The fork in the road is this: Is there an advantage to use flush rivets
here? I
know that some builders have run into a clearance problem with the top

of

the flaperon and the trailing edge of the wing skin when the flaperon is
in
the
full "up" position. Using a flush rivet would allow for a little more

room

in this
area. So that is the question.

Is it worthwhile to dimple and install flush rivets across the top of

the

flaperon spar so as to minimize any interference with the rear of the

wing

skin?

Tim Hickey
R808
Montrose, Iowa.







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Sorry about that guys. I thought that was going to Charlie directly

Steve W

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Tim,
A point of order here, there are no proper Aussies that need an excuse
(religious or otherwise) to drink beer, in fact I personally, on my own,
with no one with me, know of some Canadians, (from the Eastern
Provinces) who would fit in really well Down Under. They know who he is
and no names are necessary.
That said, how is the Rebel Progressing?
Regards
John Gleeson.
Rebel 804 Down Under



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Sorry Guys:
it is too late for me to understand what I am doing.
I thought that last message was going to John, and not the list.

Like the note said, I am getting smarter.
Just not fast enough.





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