The Murphy Builders Site

Yes but not sure you'd gain much by using flush rivets?
The tank skins overlap the inboard rib by a half inch or so. The fairing
attaches to the overlap and doesn't have to go overtop of tank rivets
that go into the inboard rib.

I guess my fairings do widen out behind and ahead of the tank but not by
much as I put tabs on the rib for the fairings in those places.

Ken

Ralph Baker wrote:

Keith,
You can use flush rivets (RV1412) in the tank as long as you are absolutely positive to seal them with ProSeal so they don't leak past the mandrel. Also, all rivets in the tanks are dipped in ProSeal at installation. Pull them as slowly as you can.
Ralph Baker

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

This one's been beat to death here. If it's only about 10% count yourself
lucky. It's common. Just grin and bear it, get your Dremel out, cut those
pesky mandrel bits off and grind 'em down to the rivet head with a small
Dremel sanding drum or something similar. The consensus is that the rivet
is setting OK. Just a manufacuring defect on where the mandrel breaks off.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Walls
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:21 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

I had the very same problem with perhaps 30% of my tank rivets Craig. I
talked to Darryl about it--they were unable <sigh> to duplicate the problem
at the time at the factory. I tried a number of tank rivets in just scrap
metal to verify that the formed head appeared Ok (they did). I also tried
adjusting the rivet puller in all kinds of ways with no change in rivet
performance--hence I believe I (and now you) have a batch of suspect rivets.
Nonetheless, after finishing the tank and leak-checking it--all appears Ok.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Walls
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:21 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

Good news. Funny, I have seen it before these particular rivets. Thanks
for the info and let's not beat it up again! Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:47 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

This one's been beat to death here. If it's only about 10% count yourself
lucky. It's common. Just grin and bear it, get your Dremel out, cut those
pesky mandrel bits off and grind 'em down to the rivet head with a small
Dremel sanding drum or something similar. The consensus is that the rivet
is setting OK. Just a manufacuring defect on where the mandrel breaks off.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Walls
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:21 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

At 06:21 PM 5/27/2008 -0800, you wrote:
[quote]While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

Right. It's not that big of a deal now that I know they are pulled
correctly. Only negative is the little piece ultimately ends up jammin' my
gun. :( CW

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Waltman
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:47 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

I had the very same problem with perhaps 30% of my tank rivets Craig. I
talked to Darryl about it--they were unable <sigh> to duplicate the problem
at the time at the factory. I tried a number of tank rivets in just scrap
metal to verify that the formed head appeared Ok (they did). I also tried
adjusting the rivet puller in all kinds of ways with no change in rivet
performance--hence I believe I (and now you) have a batch of suspect rivets.
Nonetheless, after finishing the tank and leak-checking it--all appears Ok.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Walls
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:21 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

Thanks, Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

At 06:21 PM 5/27/2008 -0800, you wrote:
[quote]While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

I made two passes on all my tank rivets. First pass low pressure or hand
riveter, and held short of a full pull. After all at this level I came
back through to finish off. I figured this way I'd more evenly squish the
underlying proseal -- sort of like torquing bolts evenly. Probably an
overkill method. But also, I didn't have any problems with stems breaking
off too high.
-Ben

[quote]Thanks, Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

At 06:21 PM 5/27/2008 -0800, you wrote:
[quote]While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

The mandrel on tank rivets breaks at the stress concentration where it
is dented by the pulling jaws. In theory ;) smoothing the inner most
serration or two of the jaws should reduce the tendancy to break at that
point. I've got some spare jaws so I'll try it for the next batch of
rivets that I pull. Likely be a few weeks from now.
Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
[quote]I made two passes on all my tank rivets. First pass low pressure or hand
riveter, and held short of a full pull. After all at this level I came
back through to finish off. I figured this way I'd more evenly squish the
underlying proseal -- sort of like torquing bolts evenly. Probably an
overkill method. But also, I didn't have any problems with stems breaking
off too high.
-Ben

[quote]Thanks, Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

At 06:21 PM 5/27/2008 -0800, you wrote:
[quote]While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

Ben, you have a very good technique, allowing the sealant to squeeze
out.
I did it similarly, when hand pulling I pull till I feel some resistance
then I go on to the next rivet.
When using the pneumatic puller I reduce the available air pressure to
40-60 PSI (so they do not pull all the way), then move on to the next
one.
Next I increase the pressure to about 80 PSI with a piece of plastic
(electrical) tape over the exhaust port on the gun and with my gloved
finger over it (to slow the pull of the riveter), go back at my starting
point and complete the pull on all the rivets.
Rarely do I have any stems that break off high. Best of all no leaking
rivets!

Dick


bransom@dcsol.com

I made two passes on all my tank rivets. First pass low pressure or
hand
riveter, and held short of a full pull. After all at this level I came
back through to finish off. I figured this way I'd more evenly squish
the
underlying proseal -- sort of like torquing bolts evenly. Probably an
overkill method. But also, I didn't have any problems with stems
breaking
off too high.

-Ben


On Behalf Of Drew Dalgleish

While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

My rivets are breaking off at about the last 1/4" of the mandrel. The
normal ones are breaking off slightly below the rivethead. The jaws never
touch the rivet there. It's a conundrum!

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ken klehman@albedo.net
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:38:05 -0400
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets


The mandrel on tank rivets breaks at the stress concentration where it
is dented by the pulling jaws. In theory ;) smoothing the inner most
serration or two of the jaws should reduce the tendancy to break at that
point. I've got some spare jaws so I'll try it for the next batch of
rivets that I pull. Likely be a few weeks from now.
Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

I made two passes on all my tank rivets. First pass low pressure or hand
riveter, and held short of a full pull. After all at this level I came
back through to finish off. I figured this way I'd more evenly squish the
underlying proseal -- sort of like torquing bolts evenly. Probably an
overkill method. But also, I didn't have any problems with stems breaking
off too high.
-Ben

Thanks, Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Drew

Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

At 06:21 PM 5/27/2008 -0800, you wrote:

While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the rivet
mandrels are breaking off approx

Are you using a real long rivet?

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:32 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

My rivets are breaking off at about the last 1/4" of the mandrel. The
normal ones are breaking off slightly below the rivethead. The jaws
never
touch the rivet there. It's a conundrum!

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ken klehman@albedo.net
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:38:05 -0400
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets


The mandrel on tank rivets breaks at the stress concentration where it
is dented by the pulling jaws. In theory ;) smoothing the inner most
serration or two of the jaws should reduce the tendancy to break at that

point. I've got some spare jaws so I'll try it for the next batch of
rivets that I pull. Likely be a few weeks from now.
Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

I made two passes on all my tank rivets. First pass low pressure or

hand

riveter, and held short of a full pull. After all at this level I

came

back through to finish off. I figured this way I'd more evenly squish

the

underlying proseal -- sort of like torquing bolts evenly. Probably an
overkill method. But also, I didn't have any problems with stems

breaking

off too high.
-Ben

Thanks, Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Drew

Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

At 06:21 PM 5/27/2008 -0800, you wrote:

While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the

rivet

mandrels are breaking off approx

I'm using the standard 6403 rivet...according to Mattic, it's the one they
sell to murphy for their kits.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Richard Wampach rwampach@comcast.net
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:51:29 -0700
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets


Are you using a real long rivet?

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:32 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

My rivets are breaking off at about the last 1/4" of the mandrel. The
normal ones are breaking off slightly below the rivethead. The jaws
never
touch the rivet there. It's a conundrum!

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ken klehman@albedo.net
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:38:05 -0400
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets


The mandrel on tank rivets breaks at the stress concentration where it
is dented by the pulling jaws. In theory ;) smoothing the inner most
serration or two of the jaws should reduce the tendancy to break at that

point. I've got some spare jaws so I'll try it for the next batch of
rivets that I pull. Likely be a few weeks from now.
Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

I made two passes on all my tank rivets. First pass low pressure or

hand

riveter, and held short of a full pull. After all at this level I

came

back through to finish off. I figured this way I'd more evenly squish

the

underlying proseal -- sort of like torquing bolts evenly. Probably an
overkill method. But also, I didn't have any problems with stems

breaking

off too high.
-Ben

Thanks, Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Drew

Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

At 06:21 PM 5/27/2008 -0800, you wrote:

While riveting the fuel tank parts I have noticed about 10% of the

rivet

mandrels are breaking off approx

If you spend less time talking about rivet issues you cannot fix and more
time on your wing -- you would be done by now :)

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:08 PM, snowyrvr@mtaonline.net <
snowyrvr@mtaonline.net> wrote:

I'm using the standard 6403 rivet...according to Mattic, it's the one they
sell to murphy for their kits.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Richard Wampach rwampach@comcast.net
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:51:29 -0700
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets


Are you using a real long rivet?

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:32 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

My rivets are breaking off at about the last 1/4" of the mandrel. The
normal ones are breaking off slightly below the rivethead. The jaws
never
touch the rivet there. It's a conundrum!

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ken klehman@albedo.net
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:38:05 -0400
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets


The mandrel on tank rivets breaks at the stress concentration where it
is dented by the pulling jaws. In theory ;) smoothing the inner most
serration or two of the jaws should reduce the tendancy to break at that

point. I've got some spare jaws so I'll try it for the next batch of
rivets that I pull. Likely be a few weeks from now.
Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

I made two passes on all my tank rivets. First pass low pressure or

hand

riveter, and held short of a full pull. After all at this level I

came

back through to finish off. I figured this way I'd more evenly squish

the

underlying proseal -- sort of like torquing bolts evenly. Probably an
overkill method. But also, I didn't have any problems with stems

breaking

off too high.
-Ben

Thanks, Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Drew

Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

At 06:21 PM 5/27/2008 -0800, you wrote:

rivet

mandrels are breaking off approx

Good point. Doubt that I'd be done, though. Sometimes you have to talk in
order to learn that you can't fix it. At least I do. :)

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jeff Micheal westcoastkitplanes@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 23:20:10 -0700
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets


If you spend less time talking about rivet issues you cannot fix and more
time on your wing -- you would be done by now :)

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:08 PM, snowyrvr@mtaonline.net <
snowyrvr@mtaonline.net> wrote:

I'm using the standard 6403 rivet...according to Mattic, it's the one they
sell to murphy for their kits.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Richard Wampach rwampach@comcast.net
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:51:29 -0700
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets


Are you using a real long rivet?

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:32 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

My rivets are breaking off at about the last 1/4" of the mandrel. The
normal ones are breaking off slightly below the rivethead. The jaws
never
touch the rivet there. It's a conundrum!

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ken klehman@albedo.net
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:38:05 -0400
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets


The mandrel on tank rivets breaks at the stress concentration where it
is dented by the pulling jaws. In theory ;) smoothing the inner most
serration or two of the jaws should reduce the tendancy to break at that

point. I've got some spare jaws so I'll try it for the next batch of
rivets that I pull. Likely be a few weeks from now.
Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

I made two passes on all my tank rivets. First pass low pressure or

hand

riveter, and held short of a full pull. After all at this level I

came

back through to finish off. I figured this way I'd more evenly squish

the

underlying proseal -- sort of like torquing bolts evenly. Probably an
overkill method. But also, I didn't have any problems with stems

breaking

off too high.
-Ben

Thanks, Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Drew

Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tank Rivets

At 06:21 PM 5/27/2008 -0800, you wrote:

rivet

mandrels are breaking off approx