The Murphy Builders Site

Hi Jesse: I used the same rivet spacing as specified for the witches hat of
1" and also the std 1410 rivets. Place rivets in the center area also. I
would recommend the overlapping channel (Mam's fix) as well. Regards. - Bob
J Rebel 192/731(almost to that stage)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets

I have Wayne's firewall plates. I'm not sure what type of rivets to use for
the plates. Also Is there a standard rivet pattern to use? I have seen
several pictures that I can copy, but I just wondered if there is an
instruction sheet or something.
I'm also debating weather or not to include MAMs firewall fix too or just
Wayne's.
Thanks.
Jesse

_________________________________________________________________
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Thanks a lot Bob!

From: "Robert Johnson" <bestofbo@cogeco.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:01:55 -0500

Hi Jesse: I used the same rivet spacing as specified for the witches hat of
1" and also the std 1410 rivets. Place rivets in the center area also. I
would recommend the overlapping channel (Mam's fix) as well. Regards. - Bob
J Rebel 192/731(almost to that stage)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets

I have Wayne's firewall plates. I'm not sure what type of rivets to use

for

the plates. Also Is there a standard rivet pattern to use? I have seen
several pictures that I can copy, but I just wondered if there is an
instruction sheet or something.
I'm also debating weather or not to include MAMs firewall fix too or

just

Wayne's.
Thanks.
Jesse

_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
http://get.live.com/messenger/overview




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_________________________________________________________________
Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy
Awards

Did I not include my pictures with the plates Jesse? If not look on my web
site www.irishfield.on.ca and go to the product section and click on the
plate pictures to bring them up full size.

I don't think the channels become necessary with my plates in place...but
they are really easy to install on a new build..so why not.

As for the rivets...up in the air there. I had to use solid aluminum rivets
way back in 1994 to appease my Canadian inspector back then. Thankfully I
asked before I proceeded in that area. I'm really surprised that today's
MD-RA is letting us/Bob J away with the standard alum RV1410 rivets
....considering the push they had to having all steel and no aluminum
fuel/oil/etc fittings in the firewall for melt down mass reasons.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets

Thanks a lot Bob!

From: "Robert Johnson" <bestofbo@cogeco.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:01:55 -0500

Hi Jesse: I used the same rivet spacing as specified for the witches hat
of
1" and also the std 1410 rivets. Place rivets in the center area also. I
would recommend the overlapping channel (Mam's fix) as well. Regards. -
Bob
J Rebel 192/731(almost to that stage)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets

I have Wayne's firewall plates. I'm not sure what type of rivets to use

for

the plates. Also Is there a standard rivet pattern to use? I have seen
several pictures that I can copy, but I just wondered if there is an
instruction sheet or something.
I'm also debating weather or not to include MAMs firewall fix too or

just

Wayne's.
Thanks.
Jesse

_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
http://get.live.com/messenger/overview




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_________________________________________________________________
Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
Academy
Awards

Thanks Wayne,
I may have your instructions somewhere, but I'll use the pictures on your
website. Would stainless rivets be better? I guess there are 2 issues with
fire: Sructural, and smoke in the cockpit. At least for the firewall
reinforcements, it doesn't seem like a structural issue, ie the engine
probably won't fall off before you can get it on the ground. As for smoke
though, that could be a problem if a bunch of those rivets melt. Even with
stainless pull rivets they still have the potential for smoke going through
if the mandrel is not there. I suppose you could goop them with fireseal. In
that case though, you could use standard avex and goop them.
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 18:56:52 -0500

Did I not include my pictures with the plates Jesse? If not look on my web
site www.irishfield.on.ca and go to the product section and click on the
plate pictures to bring them up full size.

I don't think the channels become necessary with my plates in place...but
they are really easy to install on a new build..so why not.

As for the rivets...up in the air there. I had to use solid aluminum rivets
way back in 1994 to appease my Canadian inspector back then. Thankfully I
asked before I proceeded in that area. I'm really surprised that today's
MD-RA is letting us/Bob J away with the standard alum RV1410 rivets
....considering the push they had to having all steel and no aluminum
fuel/oil/etc fittings in the firewall for melt down mass reasons.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets

Thanks a lot Bob!

From: "Robert Johnson" <bestofbo@cogeco.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:01:55 -0500

Hi Jesse: I used the same rivet spacing as specified for the witches hat
of
1" and also the std 1410 rivets. Place rivets in the center area also. I
would recommend the overlapping channel (Mam's fix) as well. Regards. -
Bob
J Rebel 192/731(almost to that stage)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets

use

for

seen

just


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_________________________________________________________________
Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
Academy
Awards

Stainless blind rivets was my other choice given by my inspector at the
time. I thought that was really dumb as the mandrels always fly out of them
when pulled...leaving you with numerous holes thru your firewall. The solid
alums have more mass to them at least, than the RV1410's. Don't know what
the TOTAL solution would be. I just keep using solids for the Canadian
firewalls I do. Retrofits that I do, of reinforce plates, to already
flying/inspected aircraft I just use RV1410's for simplicity. If the fire's
that bad you're screwed anyhow...and as you say if the rivets holding the
plates on burn off, the engine will still be retained anyhow...or so we
hope..

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets

Thanks Wayne,
I may have your instructions somewhere, but I'll use the pictures on your
website. Would stainless rivets be better? I guess there are 2 issues with
fire: Sructural, and smoke in the cockpit. At least for the firewall
reinforcements, it doesn't seem like a structural issue, ie the engine
probably won't fall off before you can get it on the ground. As for smoke
though, that could be a problem if a bunch of those rivets melt. Even with
stainless pull rivets they still have the potential for smoke going
through
if the mandrel is not there. I suppose you could goop them with fireseal.
In
that case though, you could use standard avex and goop them.
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 18:56:52 -0500

Did I not include my pictures with the plates Jesse? If not look on my web
site www.irishfield.on.ca and go to the product section and click on the
plate pictures to bring them up full size.

I don't think the channels become necessary with my plates in place...but
they are really easy to install on a new build..so why not.

As for the rivets...up in the air there. I had to use solid aluminum
rivets
way back in 1994 to appease my Canadian inspector back then. Thankfully I
asked before I proceeded in that area. I'm really surprised that today's
MD-RA is letting us/Bob J away with the standard alum RV1410 rivets
....considering the push they had to having all steel and no aluminum
fuel/oil/etc fittings in the firewall for melt down mass reasons.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] firewall rivets

Thanks a lot Bob!

use

seen

_________________________________________________________________
Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
Academy
Awards

I'd vote for stainless. A fire barrier is only as strong as the weakest
link and aluminum will melt in seconds in a fuel fed fire. Some guys
have said the stainless pop rivets don't always retain the mandrel which
could leave them hollow but mine were OK. That said I did use some avex
in non critical places although perhaps should not have. But the entire
firewall is fastened to aluminum so there are limits to the advantages
of a stainless rivet. BE61 stainless structural rivets could be used if
someone is really picky.
Ken

Kelly M. Ewing wrote:

Looking to find out if the firewall rivets should be stainless or aluminum rivets

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !

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Thanks Ken, I think your right on the fire melting the aluminum ect. I'm just not sure about the reaction of aluminum, stainless and galvanized.

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Sender: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:54:29
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets

I'd vote for stainless. A fire barrier is only as strong as the weakest
link and aluminum will melt in seconds in a fuel fed fire. Some guys
have said the stainless pop rivets don't always retain the mandrel which
could leave them hollow but mine were OK. That said I did use some avex
in non critical places although perhaps should not have. But the entire
firewall is fastened to aluminum so there are limits to the advantages
of a stainless rivet. BE61 stainless structural rivets could be used if
someone is really picky.
Ken

Kelly M. Ewing wrote:

Looking to find out if the firewall rivets should be stainless or aluminum rivets

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !

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You fellows in Canada might want to try:
Rivets Unlimited (Toronto) Inc (905) 612-9220 2696 Slough Street
Mississauga, ON L4T 1G3

In the USA I got all of my unique hardware (big bolts half sized rivets etc)
from:
GENUINE A/C Parts, Paso Robles CA, 805-239-3169, 800-247-2738
www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com

I used hard, driven, SS rivets for most of my f/w work. MS20615-4M4,
MS20615-4M5

The Firewall needs to be able to hold up to 2,000*F for 5 min per the regs.
Not a place for short cuts!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
M. Ewing
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:28 AM
To: MAM email list
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets


Thanks Ken, I think your right on the fire melting the aluminum ect. I'm
just not sure about the reaction of aluminum, stainless and galvanized.

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Sender: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:54:29
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets

I'd vote for stainless. A fire barrier is only as strong as the weakest link
and aluminum will melt in seconds in a fuel fed fire. Some guys have said
the stainless pop rivets don't always retain the mandrel which could leave
them hollow but mine were OK. That said I did use some avex in non critical
places although perhaps should not have. But the entire firewall is fastened
to aluminum so there are limits to the advantages of a stainless rivet. BE61
stainless structural rivets could be used if someone is really picky. Ken

Kelly M. Ewing wrote:

Looking to find out if the firewall rivets should be stainless or
aluminum rivets

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !

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I dipped the rivets in primer and didn't worry about the corrosion. This
was more of a concern with 2024 and 50 year old airplanes than with 6061
I think. Stainless and galvanizing should be little concern. Stainless
to aluminum is a corrosion issue but I decided not to worry especially
since my firewall is a stainless sheet riveted to aluminum. However if
you don't mind a little rust you can always use plain steel rivets. Many
firewall rivets will end up coated with oil and won't rust anyway. Plain
steel is less galvanic action on aluminum than stainless. Much like any
bolts that have had the cadmium scraped off. Corrosion-X is also amazing
for seeping through rivets and stopping aluminum corrosion.

Many builders seem to render the firewall issue largely irrelevant
anyway by sealing everything with red RTV that turns to powder at just
over 500 degrees.

Ken

Kelly M. Ewing wrote:

Thanks Ken, I think your right on the fire melting the aluminum ect.
I'm just not sure about the reaction of aluminum, stainless and
galvanized.

Thanks Kelly ( Moose ) kelly@tru-form.ca Enjoy your day !


-----Original Message----- From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> Sender:
<mike.davis@dcsol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:54:29 To:
<rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets

I'd vote for stainless. A fire barrier is only as strong as the
weakest link and aluminum will melt in seconds in a fuel fed fire.
Some guys have said the stainless pop rivets don't always retain the
mandrel which could leave them hollow but mine were OK. That said I
did use some avex in non critical places although perhaps should not
have. But the entire firewall is fastened to aluminum so there are
limits to the advantages of a stainless rivet. BE61 stainless
structural rivets could be used if someone is really picky. Ken

Kelly M. Ewing wrote:

Looking to find out if the firewall rivets should be stainless or
aluminum rivets

Thanks Kelly ( Moose ) kelly@tru-form.ca Enjoy your day !

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Thanks Ken I won't worry about it too much, I'll coat the rivets and rivet away.

I appreciate the info and its starting to get exciting again.

Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Sender: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:23:21
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets

I dipped the rivets in primer and didn't worry about the corrosion. This
was more of a concern with 2024 and 50 year old airplanes than with 6061
I think. Stainless and galvanizing should be little concern. Stainless
to aluminum is a corrosion issue but I decided not to worry especially
since my firewall is a stainless sheet riveted to aluminum. However if
you don't mind a little rust you can always use plain steel rivets. Many
firewall rivets will end up coated with oil and won't rust anyway. Plain
steel is less galvanic action on aluminum than stainless. Much like any
bolts that have had the cadmium scraped off. Corrosion-X is also amazing
for seeping through rivets and stopping aluminum corrosion.

Many builders seem to render the firewall issue largely irrelevant
anyway by sealing everything with red RTV that turns to powder at just
over 500 degrees.

Ken

Kelly M. Ewing wrote:

Thanks Ken, I think your right on the fire melting the aluminum ect.
I'm just not sure about the reaction of aluminum, stainless and
galvanized.

Thanks Kelly ( Moose ) kelly@tru-form.ca Enjoy your day !


-----Original Message----- From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> Sender:
<mike.davis@dcsol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:54:29 To:
<rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets

I'd vote for stainless. A fire barrier is only as strong as the
weakest link and aluminum will melt in seconds in a fuel fed fire.
Some guys have said the stainless pop rivets don't always retain the
mandrel which could leave them hollow but mine were OK. That said I
did use some avex in non critical places although perhaps should not
have. But the entire firewall is fastened to aluminum so there are
limits to the advantages of a stainless rivet. BE61 stainless
structural rivets could be used if someone is really picky. Ken

Kelly M. Ewing wrote:

Looking to find out if the firewall rivets should be stainless or
aluminum rivets

Thanks Kelly ( Moose ) kelly@tru-form.ca Enjoy your day !

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Thanks Dick, excellent point. I have a full bag of ss rivets from MAM and the moose instructions have no reference to the firewall at all. So I will use these and look over the regs.

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !


-----Original Message-----
From: "Dick Wampach" <rwampach@att.net>
Sender: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 07:03:17
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets

You fellows in Canada might want to try:
Rivets Unlimited (Toronto) Inc (905) 612-9220 2696 Slough Street
Mississauga, ON L4T 1G3

In the USA I got all of my unique hardware (big bolts half sized rivets etc)
from:
GENUINE A/C Parts, Paso Robles CA, 805-239-3169, 800-247-2738
www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com

I used hard, driven, SS rivets for most of my f/w work. MS20615-4M4,
MS20615-4M5

The Firewall needs to be able to hold up to 2,000*F for 5 min per the regs.
Not a place for short cuts!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
M. Ewing
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:28 AM
To: MAM email list
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets


Thanks Ken, I think your right on the fire melting the aluminum ect. I'm
just not sure about the reaction of aluminum, stainless and galvanized.

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Sender: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:54:29
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets

I'd vote for stainless. A fire barrier is only as strong as the weakest link
and aluminum will melt in seconds in a fuel fed fire. Some guys have said
the stainless pop rivets don't always retain the mandrel which could leave
them hollow but mine were OK. That said I did use some avex in non critical
places although perhaps should not have. But the entire firewall is fastened
to aluminum so there are limits to the advantages of a stainless rivet. BE61
stainless structural rivets could be used if someone is really picky. Ken

Kelly M. Ewing wrote:

Looking to find out if the firewall rivets should be stainless or
aluminum rivets

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !

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I'm assuming this is wrt the rivets around the perimeter flange, correct? I
see Genuine A/C shows MS20615-4M4 as 'universal head'. That doesn't
sound like flush (countersunk) style such as what's required for the perimeter
flange (on the Rebel). Can you clarify?

Also, I assume one could use SS countersunk pull rivets. Ken, do you know of
anything in this that is better than hardware store stuff?

Thanks a lot,
-Ben / 496R

On 8/1/2010 6:03 AM, rwampach@att.net wrote to rebel-builders:

You fellows in Canada might want to try:
Rivets Unlimited (Toronto) Inc (905) 612-9220 2696 Slough Street
Mississauga, ON L4T 1G3

In the USA I got all of my unique hardware (big bolts half sized rivets etc)
from:
GENUINE A/C Parts, Paso Robles CA, 805-239-3169, 800-247-2738
www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com

I used hard, driven, SS rivets for most of my f/w work. MS20615-

4M4,

MS20615-4M5

The Firewall needs to be able to hold up to 2,000*F for 5 min per the regs.
Not a place for short cuts!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Kelly

M. Ewing
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:28 AM
To: MAM email list
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets


Thanks Ken, I think your right on the fire melting the aluminum ect. I'm
just not sure about the reaction of aluminum, stainless and galvanized.

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Sender: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:54:29
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets

I'd vote for stainless. A fire barrier is only as strong as the weakest link
and aluminum will melt in seconds in a fuel fed fire. Some guys have said
the stainless pop rivets don't always retain the mandrel which could leave
them hollow but mine were OK. That said I did use some avex in non critical
places although perhaps should not have. But the entire firewall is fastened
to aluminum so there are limits to the advantages of a stainless rivet. BE61
stainless structural rivets could be used if someone is really picky. Ken

Kelly M. Ewing wrote:

Looking to find out if the firewall rivets should be stainless or
aluminum rivets

Thanks
Kelly ( Moose )
kelly@tru-form.ca
Enjoy your day !

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Pardon the repost ...hoping for response on this.
-Ben

I'm assuming this is wrt the rivets around the perimeter flange, correct? I
see Genuine A/C shows MS20615-4M4 as 'universal head'. That doesn't
sound like flush (countersunk) style such as what's required for the perimeter
flange (on the Rebel). Can you clarify?

Also, I assume one could use SS countersunk pull rivets. Ken, do you know of
anything in this that is better than hardware store stuff?

Thanks a lot,
-Ben / 496R

On 8/1/2010 6:03 AM, rwampach@att.net wrote to rebel-builders:

You fellows in Canada might want to try:
Rivets Unlimited (Toronto) Inc (905) 612-9220 2696 Slough Street
Mississauga, ON L4T 1G3

In the USA I got all of my unique hardware (big bolts half sized rivets etc)
from:
GENUINE A/C Parts, Paso Robles CA, 805-239-3169, 800-247-2738
www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com

I used hard, driven, SS rivets for most of my f/w work. MS20615-

4M4,

MS20615-4M5

The Firewall needs to be able to hold up to 2,000*F for 5 min per the regs.
Not a place for short cuts!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW

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OK, Ben I took the liberty of doing the research for you
www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com
805-239-3169, 800-247-2738. I talked to Lisa, She was very willing to
locate countersunk rivets for me. They carry a countersunk 100*
MS20427-M4-4, & -5 SS (Monel) rivet in stock, along with other sizes.
These are a driven rivet, not a pull (pop) type rivet which I prefer. Sold
in 1/4 lb or larger quantities about 2750 rivets per pound. The price is
reasonable as I recall, UPS to you in a few days. Pay by credit card
(yours, not mine).

Is their any thing else that I can do for you...no I won't install them for
you!!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW




-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:35 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets


Pardon the repost ...hoping for response on this.
-Ben

I'm assuming this is the rivets around the perimeter flange, correct? I
see Genuine A/C shows MS20615-4M4 as 'universal head'. That doesn't
sound like flush (countersunk) style such as what's required for the
perimeter
flange (on the Rebel). Can you clarify?

Also, I assume one could use SS countersunk pull rivets. Ken, do you know of

anything in this that is better than hardware store stuff?

Thanks a lot,
-Ben / 496R

On 8/1/2010 6:03 AM, rwampach@att.net wrote to rebel-builders:

You fellows in Canada might want to try:
Rivets Unlimited (Toronto) Inc (905) 612-9220 2696 Slough Street
Mississauga, ON L4T 1G3

In the USA I got all of my unique hardware (big bolts half sized
rivets etc)
from:
GENUINE A/C Parts, Paso Robles CA, 805-239-3169, 800-247-2738
www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com

I used hard, driven, SS rivets for most of my f/w work. MS20615-

4M4,

MS20615-4M5

The Firewall needs to be able to hold up to 2,000*F for 5 min per the
regs. Not a place for short cuts!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW

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Well, thanks Dick ...appreciate the additional info, and I really did take it from
your earlier post that you had this in your head instead of having to call.

I guess I'll forgive you for not buying or installing them for me. This time! ;)

BTW, I imagine its quite the trick to buck SS solid rivets, and rediculous to
drill out if necessary. I think I'll try a few hardware store SS pop rivets on
scrap and see how much mandrel is left in the hole.
-Ben/ 496R


On 8/3/2010 11:39 AM, rwampach@att.net wrote to rebel-builders:

OK, Ben I took the liberty of doing the research for you
www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com
805-239-3169, 800-247-2738. I talked to Lisa, She was very willing to
locate countersunk rivets for me. They carry a countersunk 100*
MS20427-M4-4, & -5 SS (Monel) rivet in stock, along with other sizes.
These are a driven rivet, not a pull (pop) type rivet which I prefer. Sold
in 1/4 lb or larger quantities about 2750 rivets per pound. The price is
reasonable as I recall, UPS to you in a few days. Pay by credit card
(yours, not mine).

Is their any thing else that I can do for you...no I won't install them for
you!!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW




-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:35 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Firewall rivets


Pardon the repost ...hoping for response on this.
-Ben

I'm assuming this is the rivets around the perimeter flange, correct? I
see Genuine A/C shows MS20615-4M4 as 'universal head'. That doesn't
sound like flush (countersunk) style such as what's required for the
perimeter
flange (on the Rebel). Can you clarify?

Also, I assume one could use SS countersunk pull rivets. Ken, do you know

of

anything in this that is better than hardware store stuff?

Thanks a lot,
-Ben / 496R

On 8/1/2010 6:03 AM, rwampach@att.net wrote to rebel-builders:

You fellows in Canada might want to try:
Rivets Unlimited (Toronto) Inc (905) 612-9220 2696 Slough Street
Mississauga, ON L4T 1G3

In the USA I got all of my unique hardware (big bolts half sized
rivets etc)
from:
GENUINE A/C Parts, Paso Robles CA, 805-239-3169, 800-247-2738
www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com

I used hard, driven, SS rivets for most of my f/w work. MS20615-

4M4,

MS20615-4M5

The Firewall needs to be able to hold up to 2,000*F for 5 min per the
regs. Not a place for short cuts!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW

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