The Murphy Builders Site

Since no one else answered I'll give my limited experience. I haven't had
any problems with my floats on grass yet but I try to avoid it as much as
possible. Takeoffs and landings are fine but taxiing on a rough surface
sucks. I think the main gear is fine because it's so far back but the
nosewheels take quite a beating. a doubler in the front bottom corner of
your 207s is likely a good idea but anything more would be overkill.

At 10:26 AM 2/7/2007 -0500, you wrote:

Without mentioning a name ;( someone who likes to land on grass strips
recommended that I make new thicker FL207 main gear side panels due to
deformation of theirs. My originals from 1997 are 0.020 stock so first
question is can anyone with a more recent kit confirm what thickness
theirs are?

I'd be curious if anyone can provide more details of any deformation
that they've seen. I'm guessing that the gear has pushed rearward and
buckled the forward bottom corner of FL207? Perhaps a partial doubler
that picks up a more substantial diagonal stringer on FL207 might be
appropriate instead of upgrading the entire FL207?

A future issue is probably to fashion some FL305's (I see them on
Wayne's pics) as there sure isn't much room to rivet the FL207's to my
FL202 gear mount angles. I have the 1995 manual, no FL305's, but quite
skinny FL202's that don't seem wide enough to river the FL207's onto
like my manual says to do. Hmmm - large FL305's would in fact be a
partial doubler for the FL207 in the area that I'm concerned about I guess.

thanks for any comments
Ken




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Drew



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Thanks Drew
I think I'll go with some doublers and see how it works out.
Sounds like we could use some suspension on the nosewheels as well... ;)
Or maybe just have the passenger crawl down the tailcone for taxiing on
rough surfaces ;)
Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

Since no one else answered I'll give my limited experience. I haven't had
any problems with my floats on grass yet but I try to avoid it as much as
possible. Takeoffs and landings are fine but taxiing on a rough surface
sucks. I think the main gear is fine because it's so far back but the
nosewheels take quite a beating. a doubler in the front bottom corner of
your 207s is likely a good idea but anything more would be overkill.

At 10:26 AM 2/7/2007 -0500, you wrote:

Without mentioning a name ;( someone who likes to land on grass strips
recommended that I make new thicker FL207 main gear side panels due to
deformation of theirs. My originals from 1997 are 0.020 stock so first
question is can anyone with a more recent kit confirm what thickness
theirs are?

I'd be curious if anyone can provide more details of any deformation
that they've seen. I'm guessing that the gear has pushed rearward and
buckled the forward bottom corner of FL207? Perhaps a partial doubler
that picks up a more substantial diagonal stringer on FL207 might be
appropriate instead of upgrading the entire FL207?

A future issue is probably to fashion some FL305's (I see them on
Wayne's pics) as there sure isn't much room to rivet the FL207's to my
FL202 gear mount angles. I have the 1995 manual, no FL305's, but quite
skinny FL202's that don't seem wide enough to river the FL207's onto
like my manual says to do. Hmmm - large FL305's would in fact be a
partial doubler for the FL207 in the area that I'm concerned about I guess.

thanks for any comments
Ken

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Nosewheel suspension would be nice but I think I'd need an engineering
degree before trying to figure that out. Better main gear suspension could
possibly help take some of the loads off the nose. Bob Fisher replaced the
stacked pucks in his with a die spring that gives a lot more movement. If I
have time this spring before I switch over I think I'll do the same thing.

At 02:55 PM 2/8/2007 -0500, you wrote:

Thanks Drew
I think I'll go with some doublers and see how it works out.
Sounds like we could use some suspension on the nosewheels as well... ;)
Or maybe just have the passenger crawl down the tailcone for taxiing on
rough surfaces ;)
Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

Since no one else answered I'll give my limited experience. I haven't had
any problems with my floats on grass yet but I try to avoid it as much as
possible. Takeoffs and landings are fine but taxiing on a rough surface
sucks. I think the main gear is fine because it's so far back but the
nosewheels take quite a beating. a doubler in the front bottom corner of
your 207s is likely a good idea but anything more would be overkill.

At 10:26 AM 2/7/2007 -0500, you wrote:

Without mentioning a name ;( someone who likes to land on grass strips
recommended that I make new thicker FL207 main gear side panels due to
deformation of theirs. My originals from 1997 are 0.020 stock so first
question is can anyone with a more recent kit confirm what thickness
theirs are?

I'd be curious if anyone can provide more details of any deformation
that they've seen. I'm guessing that the gear has pushed rearward and
buckled the forward bottom corner of FL207? Perhaps a partial doubler
that picks up a more substantial diagonal stringer on FL207 might be
appropriate instead of upgrading the entire FL207?

A future issue is probably to fashion some FL305's (I see them on
Wayne's pics) as there sure isn't much room to rivet the FL207's to my
FL202 gear mount angles. I have the 1995 manual, no FL305's, but quite
skinny FL202's that don't seem wide enough to river the FL207's onto
like my manual says to do. Hmmm - large FL305's would in fact be a
partial doubler for the FL207 in the area that I'm concerned about I guess.

thanks for any comments
Ken

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Drew



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I'd be interested in the details of the die springs too. Now would be a
good time for me to play with fitting parts and doing some math but by
far the best thing is to just copy what springs he used if they are
satisfactory.
Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

Nosewheel suspension would be nice but I think I'd need an engineering
degree before trying to figure that out. Better main gear suspension could
possibly help take some of the loads off the nose. Bob Fisher replaced the
stacked pucks in his with a die spring that gives a lot more movement. If I
have time this spring before I switch over I think I'll do the same thing.

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they were extra heavy duty and the size is the same as the pucks use now.
He didn't make any other changes as far as I know.

At 09:35 AM 2/9/2007 -0500, you wrote:

I'd be interested in the details of the die springs too. Now would be a
good time for me to play with fitting parts and doing some math but by
far the best thing is to just copy what springs he used if they are
satisfactory.
Ken

Drew



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I'd be up for a set of those die springs as well.

Ken, just saw your post about the floats/grass/doubler
It was the outboard side of the left float that deformed.
I think I can fix it with a doubler on the wheel side of the panel though
will have to remove the entire gear assembly to do it.
Still easier than working through the inspection hole to do it
on the other side.
When speaking of construction remember my amphib-floats are serial #001
and later models may be different.
If you get to YQS sometime I'll pull the insp. cover and show you
........Angus

I'd be interested in the details of the die springs too. Now would be a
good time for me to play with fitting parts and doing some math but by
far the best thing is to just copy what springs he used if they are
satisfactory.
Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

Nosewheel suspension would be nice but I think I'd need an engineering
degree before trying to figure that out. Better main gear suspension
could
possibly help take some of the loads off the nose. Bob Fisher replaced
the
stacked pucks in his with a die spring that gives a lot more movement. If
I
have time this spring before I switch over I think I'll do the same
thing.

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Hi Angus

That will be tricky work. Probably easier to do on yours than on the
newer floats that use a FL305 angle riveted with the same rivets that
hold the heavy vertical angles (FL202) to the bulkhead though. I'd wager
that the FL305 is heavier than the 0.020 FL207 and acts as a doubler!!
However I'm guessing the real reason for the change was simply to reduce
part numbers and make all the vertical angles the same part number.
Wayne would know but he's been very quiet. Probably busy digging out
from all the snow up there...

I think it is a good idea to get the doubler tied into the diagonal
"stringer" that is riveted onto the FL207 side panels. From what I can
see that is the main thing taking fore and aft gear loads as the main
gear tries to flex the bulkhead that it all mounts onto. I plan to make
up some small witches hat or use some heavier angle extrusion for that
diagonal.

I appreciate you mentioning this as it is so much easier to beef things
up a touch during the build than later. I think I've got this figurered
out but let me know when you plan to be out working on the machine and
I'll drop anyway if I'm not working and the weather is OK.

Ken

Been up in Temagami for some of the week...enjoying not having to plow snow
at a foot a day ! Thankfully Daryl plowed while we were gone..as we got over
3 feet since Tuesday at 9am. Temagami is lucky if there is 6 inches of snow
total! Colder than a witches you know what...but no snow! Was -29C on
Tuesday night/Wed morning with a -49C windchill.

I don't recall the FL-207's being any heavier now than they were in 1997
when I built Howard's first set...and they were one of the first kits out
the MAM door years earlier than I built them for him. The FL-305 is just a
corner angle of the same thickness as the FL-207's and only used so MAM
could standardize all 4 gear mounting brackets to the same shape. Originally
you had to clearance the inner two brackets so the main gear over center "H"
could rotate to the locked postion. Now they are all machined down so
they're all usable as is. The pitfall of this is the old build method used
the side of the outer mount bracket to drill/rivet the FL-207 to them. The
new ones require the FL-305 angle to be riveted to the mounting face of the
FL-202 and the other side of the angle gives you something to tie the FL-207
into. Don't think it adds any strength...just makes sealing the compartment
possible with the new FL-202 design.

There is a stringer that goes angle wise across the FL-207.

I haven't seen any deformation on Howard's original set of floats, in the
FL-207's that is. The floats are pretty much toast...but the main gear areas
are mint.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs FL207

Hi Angus

That will be tricky work. Probably easier to do on yours than on the
newer floats that use a FL305 angle riveted with the same rivets that
hold the heavy vertical angles (FL202) to the bulkhead though. I'd wager
that the FL305 is heavier than the 0.020 FL207 and acts as a doubler!!
However I'm guessing the real reason for the change was simply to reduce
part numbers and make all the vertical angles the same part number.
Wayne would know but he's been very quiet. Probably busy digging out
from all the snow up there...

I think it is a good idea to get the doubler tied into the diagonal
"stringer" that is riveted onto the FL207 side panels. From what I can
see that is the main thing taking fore and aft gear loads as the main
gear tries to flex the bulkhead that it all mounts onto. I plan to make
up some small witches hat or use some heavier angle extrusion for that
diagonal.

I appreciate you mentioning this as it is so much easier to beef things
up a touch during the build than later. I think I've got this figurered
out but let me know when you plan to be out working on the machine and
I'll drop anyway if I'm not working and the weather is OK.

Ken

.
angus@lweb.net wrote:

I'd be up for a set of those die springs as well.

Ken, just saw your post about the floats/grass/doubler
It was the outboard side of the left float that deformed.
I think I can fix it with a doubler on the wheel side of the panel though
will have to remove the entire gear assembly to do it.
Still easier than working through the inspection hole to do it
on the other side.
When speaking of construction remember my amphib-floats are serial #001
and later models may be different.
If you get to YQS sometime I'll pull the insp. cover and show you
........Angus

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hi guys die springs are working great noooo sag 2 yrs in use bob
fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs FL207

Nosewheel suspension would be nice but I think I'd need an engineering
degree before trying to figure that out. Better main gear suspension could
possibly help take some of the loads off the nose. Bob Fisher replaced the
stacked pucks in his with a die spring that gives a lot more movement. If
I
have time this spring before I switch over I think I'll do the same thing.

At 02:55 PM 2/8/2007 -0500, you wrote:

Thanks Drew
I think I'll go with some doublers and see how it works out.
Sounds like we could use some suspension on the nosewheels as well... ;)
Or maybe just have the passenger crawl down the tailcone for taxiing on
rough surfaces ;)
Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

Since no one else answered I'll give my limited experience. I haven't had
any problems with my floats on grass yet but I try to avoid it as much as
possible. Takeoffs and landings are fine but taxiing on a rough surface
sucks. I think the main gear is fine because it's so far back but the
nosewheels take quite a beating. a doubler in the front bottom corner of
your 207s is likely a good idea but anything more would be overkill.

At 10:26 AM 2/7/2007 -0500, you wrote:

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Drew



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