The Murphy Builders Site

I riveted my bottom fuel tank skin on yesterday using RV-6403 tank rivets.
During this (messy <grin>) process, I noticed that perhaps as many as 30% of
the mandrels did not break off. I adjusted my pneumatic rivet gun as tight
as it would go. I also ground down the rivet tip on the gun as far as
practical. I even tried a manual puller with about the same % problem
results.



I held up a RV-6403 rivet to a standard RV-1410 rivet. The mandrel on the
RV-6403 rivet was 1/8" or maybe 5/32" shorter than the mandrel on the
RV-1410's. So therein lies the problem (or so it seems).



When I first saw this mandrel issue happening, I got a bunch of scrap metal
and put some 6403 rivets in. Didn't appear to matter whether I was going
thru a total of .060 or as much as .080 total thickness-I still had maybe
30% of the mandrels fail to properly break off. The good news is, on the
tests, the rivet tails appeared to be the same regardless of whether the
mandrel broke off or not. In other words, I'm quite confident that the
rivets are Ok as installed on the tank skin.



Did I get a bad batch of rivets? I don't know. What a pain, though, to
have to go back and [carefully] use a cutting wheel to take off those
mandrels that didn't properly break off.



I posted pictures of the problem in area 106 S/M wings



Ted

Moose N384JP

I riveted my bottom fuel tank skin on yesterday using RV-6403 tank rivets.
During this (messy <grin>) process, I noticed that perhaps as many as 30%

the mandrels did not break off. I adjusted my pneumatic rivet gun as

as it would go. I also ground down the rivet tip on the gun as far as
practical. I even tried a manual puller with about the same % problem
results.



I held up a RV-6403 rivet to a standard RV-1410 rivet. The mandrel on the
RV-6403 rivet was 1/8" or maybe 5/32" shorter than the mandrel on the
RV-1410's. So therein lies the problem (or so it seems).



When I first saw this mandrel issue happening, I got a bunch of scrap

and put some 6403 rivets in. Didn't appear to matter whether I was going
thru a total of .060 or as much as .080 total thickness-I still had maybe
30% of the mandrels fail to properly break off. The good news is, on the
tests, the rivet tails appeared to be the same regardless of whether the
mandrel broke off or not. In other words, I'm quite confident that the
rivets are Ok as installed on the tank skin.



Did I get a bad batch of rivets? I don't know. What a pain, though, to
have to go back and [carefully] use a cutting wheel to take off those
mandrels that didn't properly break off.



I posted pictures of the problem in area 106 S/M wings



Ted

Moose N384JP

...I received those rivets from Murphy Aircraft.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:32 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel tank rivets--mandrel problem


Hi Ted !

Very likely a bad bunch of rivets - one problem with buying from a
jobber ...... They can mix batches from different manufacturers !
This 'breaking off high' problem was the reason for Murphy switching
suppliers a few years back !

You've got the best solution - "Dremel is your friend !" ;-)
(Possible a grinder, after the cutter ....)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 02 February 2007 17:14, Ted Waltman wrote:

I riveted my bottom fuel tank skin on yesterday using RV-6403 tank rivets.
During this (messy <grin>) process, I noticed that perhaps as many as 30%

of

the mandrels did not break off. I adjusted my pneumatic rivet gun as

tight

as it would go. I also ground down the rivet tip on the gun as far as
practical. I even tried a manual puller with about the same % problem
results.



I held up a RV-6403 rivet to a standard RV-1410 rivet. The mandrel on the
RV-6403 rivet was 1/8" or maybe 5/32" shorter than the mandrel on the
RV-1410's. So therein lies the problem (or so it seems).



When I first saw this mandrel issue happening, I got a bunch of scrap

metal

and put some 6403 rivets in. Didn't appear to matter whether I was going
thru a total of .060 or as much as .080 total thickness-I still had maybe
30% of the mandrels fail to properly break off. The good news is, on the
tests, the rivet tails appeared to be the same regardless of whether the
mandrel broke off or not. In other words, I'm quite confident that the
rivets are Ok as installed on the tank skin.



Did I get a bad batch of rivets? I don't know. What a pain, though, to
have to go back and [carefully] use a cutting wheel to take off those
mandrels that didn't properly break off.



I posted pictures of the problem in area 106 S/M wings



Ted

Moose N384JP

...I received those rivets from Murphy Aircraft.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:32 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel tank rivets--mandrel problem


Hi Ted !

Very likely a bad bunch of rivets - one problem with buying from a
jobber ...... They can mix batches from different manufacturers !
This 'breaking off high' problem was the reason for Murphy switching
suppliers a few years back !

You've got the best solution - "Dremel is your friend !" ;-)
(Possible a grinder, after the cutter ....)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 02 February 2007 17:14, Ted Waltman wrote:

I riveted my bottom fuel tank skin on yesterday using RV-6403 tank

During this (messy <grin>) process, I noticed that perhaps as many as

of

the mandrels did not break off. I adjusted my pneumatic rivet gun as

tight

as it would go. I also ground down the rivet tip on the gun as far as
practical. I even tried a manual puller with about the same % problem
results.



I held up a RV-6403 rivet to a standard RV-1410 rivet. The mandrel on

RV-6403 rivet was 1/8" or maybe 5/32" shorter than the mandrel on the
RV-1410's. So therein lies the problem (or so it seems).



When I first saw this mandrel issue happening, I got a bunch of scrap

metal

and put some 6403 rivets in. Didn't appear to matter whether I was

thru a total of .060 or as much as .080 total thickness-I still had

30% of the mandrels fail to properly break off. The good news is, on

tests, the rivet tails appeared to be the same regardless of whether the
mandrel broke off or not. In other words, I'm quite confident that the
rivets are Ok as installed on the tank skin.



Did I get a bad batch of rivets? I don't know. What a pain, though, to
have to go back and [carefully] use a cutting wheel to take off those
mandrels that didn't properly break off.



I posted pictures of the problem in area 106 S/M wings



Ted

Moose N384JP

If it was a few years back, they had a replacement offer ....

If not, and you have a lot more, best to let them know !

Wouldn't think that the mandrel length should be a problem,
as long as it gets gripped firmly by the gun ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 02 February 2007 17:41, Ted Waltman wrote:

...I received those rivets from Murphy Aircraft.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:32 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel tank rivets--mandrel problem


Hi Ted !

Very likely a bad bunch of rivets - one problem with buying from a
jobber ...... They can mix batches from different manufacturers !
This 'breaking off high' problem was the reason for Murphy switching
suppliers a few years back !

You've got the best solution - "Dremel is your friend !" ;-)
(Possible a grinder, after the cutter ....)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 02 February 2007 17:14, Ted Waltman wrote:

I riveted my bottom fuel tank skin on yesterday using RV-6403 tank
rivets.
During this (messy <grin>) process, I noticed that perhaps as many as
30%

of

the mandrels did not break off. I adjusted my pneumatic rivet gun as

tight

as it would go. I also ground down the rivet tip on the gun as far as
practical. I even tried a manual puller with about the same % problem
results.



I held up a RV-6403 rivet to a standard RV-1410 rivet. The mandrel on
the
RV-6403 rivet was 1/8" or maybe 5/32" shorter than the mandrel on the
RV-1410's. So therein lies the problem (or so it seems).



When I first saw this mandrel issue happening, I got a bunch of scrap

metal

and put some 6403 rivets in. Didn't appear to matter whether I was
going
thru a total of .060 or as much as .080 total thickness-I still had
maybe
30% of the mandrels fail to properly break off. The good news is, on
the
tests, the rivet tails appeared to be the same regardless of whether
the
mandrel broke off or not. In other words, I'm quite confident that the
rivets are Ok as installed on the tank skin.



Did I get a bad batch of rivets? I don't know. What a pain, though,
to
have to go back and [carefully] use a cutting wheel to take off those
mandrels that didn't properly break off.



I posted pictures of the problem in area 106 S/M wings



Ted

Moose N384JP

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Common issue with Mattics RR6402/6403. Sometime they all go good and
sometimes a few handfulls that the mandrel breaks proud. The rivets are
all pulled well in either case. Cut wheel and a quick touch up. I had only
a couple in over 13,000 break proud doing Howard's floats. Other times you
can get more than that in a single tank skin. They are VERY grip sensitive
for allowing the notched area to break.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel tank rivets--mandrel problem

Hi Ted !

Very likely a bad bunch of rivets - one problem with buying from a
jobber ...... They can mix batches from different manufacturers !
This 'breaking off high' problem was the reason for Murphy switching
suppliers a few years back !

You've got the best solution - "Dremel is your friend !" ;-)
(Possible a grinder, after the cutter ....)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 02 February 2007 17:14, Ted Waltman wrote:

I riveted my bottom fuel tank skin on yesterday using RV-6403 tank
rivets.
During this (messy <grin>) process, I noticed that perhaps as many as
30% of
the mandrels did not break off. I adjusted my pneumatic rivet gun as
tight
as it would go. I also ground down the rivet tip on the gun as far as
practical. I even tried a manual puller with about the same % problem
results.



I held up a RV-6403 rivet to a standard RV-1410 rivet. The mandrel on
the
RV-6403 rivet was 1/8" or maybe 5/32" shorter than the mandrel on the
RV-1410's. So therein lies the problem (or so it seems).



When I first saw this mandrel issue happening, I got a bunch of scrap
metal
and put some 6403 rivets in. Didn't appear to matter whether I was
going
thru a total of .060 or as much as .080 total thickness-I still had
maybe
30% of the mandrels fail to properly break off. The good news is, on
the
tests, the rivet tails appeared to be the same regardless of whether the
mandrel broke off or not. In other words, I'm quite confident that the
rivets are Ok as installed on the tank skin.



Did I get a bad batch of rivets? I don't know. What a pain, though, to
have to go back and [carefully] use a cutting wheel to take off those
mandrels that didn't properly break off.



I posted pictures of the problem in area 106 S/M wings



Ted

Moose N384JP

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Hi Ted !

Very likely a bad bunch of rivets - one problem with buying from a
jobber ...... They can mix batches from different manufacturers !
This 'breaking off high' problem was the reason for Murphy switching
suppliers a few years back !

You've got the best solution - "Dremel is your friend !" ;-)
(Possible a grinder, after the cutter ....)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 02 February 2007 17:14, Ted Waltman wrote:

I riveted my bottom fuel tank skin on yesterday using RV-6403 tank
rivets.
During this (messy <grin>) process, I noticed that perhaps as many as 30%
of
the mandrels did not break off. I adjusted my pneumatic rivet gun as
tight
as it would go. I also ground down the rivet tip on the gun as far as
practical. I even tried a manual puller with about the same % problem
results.



I held up a RV-6403 rivet to a standard RV-1410 rivet. The mandrel on
the
RV-6403 rivet was 1/8" or maybe 5/32" shorter than the mandrel on the
RV-1410's. So therein lies the problem (or so it seems).



When I first saw this mandrel issue happening, I got a bunch of scrap
metal
and put some 6403 rivets in. Didn't appear to matter whether I was going
thru a total of .060 or as much as .080 total thickness-I still had maybe
30% of the mandrels fail to properly break off. The good news is, on the
tests, the rivet tails appeared to be the same regardless of whether the
mandrel broke off or not. In other words, I'm quite confident that the
rivets are Ok as installed on the tank skin.



Did I get a bad batch of rivets? I don't know. What a pain, though, to
have to go back and [carefully] use a cutting wheel to take off those
mandrels that didn't properly break off.



I posted pictures of the problem in area 106 S/M wings



Ted

Moose N384JP

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I received them a couple of years ago (?) when Darryl had that
$500 credit,
parts and proseal deal for owners with leaking tanks. So, you're
probablyright that they were part of an old batch. Oh well, the
process is done for
now...at least until I fill the tanks with fuel and then find the
inevitableleaks <grin>. I did send a separate email to Darryl to
document this issue
earlier this morning. Thank you for your input.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf
Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:51 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel tank rivets--mandrel problem


If it was a few years back, they had a replacement offer ....

If not, and you have a lot more, best to let them know !

Wouldn't think that the mandrel length should be a problem,
as long as it gets gripped firmly by the gun ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 02 February 2007 17:41, Ted Waltman wrote:

...I received those rivets from Murphy Aircraft.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On

Behalf Of Bob

Patterson
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:32 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel tank rivets--mandrel problem


Hi Ted !

Very likely a bad bunch of rivets - one problem with buying

from a

jobber ...... They can mix batches from different

manufacturers !

This 'breaking off high' problem was the reason for Murphy switching
suppliers a few years back !

You've got the best solution - "Dremel is your friend !"

;-)

(Possible a grinder, after the cutter ....)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 02 February 2007 17:14, Ted Waltman wrote:

I riveted my bottom fuel tank skin on yesterday using RV-6403 tank

rivets.

During this (messy <grin>) process, I noticed that perhaps as

many as
30%

of

the mandrels did not break off. I adjusted my pneumatic rivet

gun as

tight

as it would go. I also ground down the rivet tip on the gun

as far as

practical. I even tried a manual puller with about the same %

problem> > results.

I held up a RV-6403 rivet to a standard RV-1410 rivet. The

mandrel on
the

RV-6403 rivet was 1/8" or maybe 5/32" shorter than the mandrel

on the

RV-1410's. So therein lies the problem (or so it seems).



When I first saw this mandrel issue happening, I got a bunch

of scrap

metal

and put some 6403 rivets in. Didn't appear to matter whether

I was
going

thru a total of .060 or as much as .080 total thickness-I

still had
maybe

30% of the mandrels fail to properly break off. The good news

is, on
the

tests, the rivet tails appeared to be the same regardless of

whether the

mandrel broke off or not. In other words, I'm quite confident

that the

rivets are Ok as installed on the tank skin.



Did I get a bad batch of rivets? I don't know. What a pain,

though, to

have to go back and [carefully] use a cutting wheel to take

off those

mandrels that didn't properly break off.



I posted pictures of the problem in area 106 S/M wings



Ted

Moose N384JP

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