gobbledegook

[Geert Frank]

Hi everybody. I must have the same machine as bobp, the May 1 summation came
through almost all HTML i.e. not plain text. Ian, sorry I too wanted to get
down to 8 instead of 12 bungee rings...(the 400 lbs rings), primarily to
soften up those landings a little. It does not work, the gear is now much
too "soft". Dave B. who had two landing gear failures also strongly
recommended to use all 12 loops. Next, for the person that is trying to
lift an UTVA tail (?, Wayne hisself?) the Rebel I don't think is that heavy
back there, but I made up a simple sling using a horse saddle belly
strap(cinge) which is fleece covered and has two very sturdy rings, $ 20. I
used a 24" piece of pipe, drilled three holes into same (use drill press
only, handheld drill will put you in mental home!) and stuck one 3/16
eyebolt upwards in the center and two downward at the ends.
Two pieces of 3/16" cable, one piece for each side (24" for the Rebel,
including loops). Attach three of the cable ends directly to the down
eyebolts and rings in cinge, using a shackle and two cable clamps at each
point, one end attach it to one of those quick disconnect snaps( heavy duty
please) and you can lift the tail by your own self. I use one of those
engine mini cranes, hook of course through the top eye. Or you could use a
simple come-along attached to the rafters providing they are strong enough
of course. I place my lift strap just forward of the lift handles I have
installed. Over the rivetline of course. Ok? Next a few questions: is
there a list somewhere of what actually happened to the over 600 Rebel kits
sold? How many projects were abandoned? How many flying? How many completed
but not flying? Why only 132 (correct?) people active on this site? I only
see about six to eight names appear myself, but I'll take someone's word for
that 132 figure. To use the cliche: Where IS everybody??? I have
temporarily abandoned the upgrade from my 2.2 liter Subaru Legacy to the 2.5
liter Eggenfellner one. It almost makes use of an electric c.s. prop
mandatory and there goes another $ 4000. My D I Y junkyard 2.2 liter is also
running fine with it's 3-bladed Warpdrive. I found the summation of the
Subaru conversions by Ken K. quite interesting and actually pretty fair. I
do agree on the resale value, but I also heard of some guys buying a Rebel
precisely because it had a Subaru engine. Go figure! One thing seems to be
never mentioned: you buy a used many times overhauled Lycoming, you are
sitting behind some old stuff, going back to what year? 1968, 1972, older?
My engine was not "born" until 1990. Eggenfellner seems to be using almost
all1999 or 2000 engines. That gives me a lot more confidence.
Finally I still have the seperate flaps on my Rebel. Can I hear from some of
the experienced guys, to yes or no convert back to flaperons? I am not all
that happy with the aileron effectiveness, so I am considering. Many thanks,
Geert

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 155 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 11:41:37 on 2 May 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks Geert! But the ground was so soft where the UTVA was sitting I
couldn't get a crane, etc. near it. Ended up geting it up on a trolley jack
with boards under the trolley and blocks under the jack head. Thanks for the
"sling" info though. Probably a good idea for me to make one up for the
hanger, where I can get stuff under my beam and chain falls.

Blue skies,
Wayne

P.S. Go back to flaperons. Just think, you will get 12 feet of flaps back to
get over the obstacles on your runway!

-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank <storchpilot@mediaone.net>
To: murphy archives <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Cc: Jan Eggenfellner <eaainc@aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:09 AM
Subject: gobbledegook

Hi everybody. I must have the same machine as bobp, the May 1 summation

came

through almost all HTML i.e. not plain text. Ian, sorry I too wanted to

get

down to 8 instead of 12 bungee rings...(the 400 lbs rings), primarily to
soften up those landings a little. It does not work, the gear is now much
too "soft". Dave B. who had two landing gear failures also strongly
recommended to use all 12 loops. Next, for the person that is trying to
lift an UTVA tail (?, Wayne hisself?) the Rebel I don't think is that heavy
back there, but I made up a simple sling using a horse saddle belly
strap(cinge) which is fleece covered and has two very sturdy rings, $ 20. I
used a 24" piece of pipe, drilled three holes into same (use drill press
only, handheld drill will put you in mental home!) and stuck one 3/16
eyebolt upwards in the center and two downward at the ends.
Two pieces of 3/16" cable, one piece for each side (24" for the Rebel,
including loops). Attach three of the cable ends directly to the down
eyebolts and rings in cinge, using a shackle and two cable clamps at each
point, one end attach it to one of those quick disconnect snaps( heavy duty
please) and you can lift the tail by your own self. I use one of those
engine mini cranes, hook of course through the top eye. Or you could use a
simple come-along attached to the rafters providing they are strong enough
of course. I place my lift strap just forward of the lift handles I have
installed. Over the rivetline of course. Ok? Next a few questions: is
there a list somewhere of what actually happened to the over 600 Rebel kits
sold? How many projects were abandoned? How many flying? How many completed
but not flying? Why only 132 (correct?) people active on this site? I only
see about six to eight names appear myself, but I'll take someone's word

for

that 132 figure. To use the cliche: Where IS everybody??? I have
temporarily abandoned the upgrade from my 2.2 liter Subaru Legacy to the

2.5

liter Eggenfellner one. It almost makes use of an electric c.s. prop
mandatory and there goes another $ 4000. My D I Y junkyard 2.2 liter is

also

running fine with it's 3-bladed Warpdrive. I found the summation of the
Subaru conversions by Ken K. quite interesting and actually pretty fair. I
do agree on the resale value, but I also heard of some guys buying a Rebel
precisely because it had a Subaru engine. Go figure! One thing seems to be
never mentioned: you buy a used many times overhauled Lycoming, you are
sitting behind some old stuff, going back to what year? 1968, 1972, older?
My engine was not "born" until 1990. Eggenfellner seems to be using almost
all1999 or 2000 engines. That gives me a lot more confidence.
Finally I still have the seperate flaps on my Rebel. Can I hear from some

of

the experienced guys, to yes or no convert back to flaperons? I am not all
that happy with the aileron effectiveness, so I am considering. Many

thanks,

Geert

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

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Archives located at:
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[rebelair]

Hi There

I am not convinced at all that splitting the flaps is a good idea. As Geert
mentions, you will defintely lose aileron effectiveness. On strong
crosswind landings, I find that you want all of the available aileron input
to keep it tracking down the centre & there are still times that I don't
have enough. I know that I am FAR from a great pilot, but my
feeling/opinion is that you want all the aileron input which the 12'
aileron/flapperon can give you.

Also, I can't really imagine what great benefit the split flap can give you
as the stall is low, and I find that I prefer half flap on landing vs. full.
Maybe someone can comment & tell us of their positive experiences with split
flaps.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank [mailto:storchpilot@mediaone.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:11 AM
To: murphy archives
Cc: Jan Eggenfellner
Subject: gobbledegook


Hi everybody. I must have the same machine as bobp, the May 1 summation came
through almost all HTML i.e. not plain text. Ian, sorry I too wanted to get
down to 8 instead of 12 bungee rings...(the 400 lbs rings), primarily to
soften up those landings a little. It does not work, the gear is now much
too "soft". Dave B. who had two landing gear failures also strongly
recommended to use all 12 loops. Next, for the person that is trying to
lift an UTVA tail (?, Wayne hisself?) the Rebel I don't think is that heavy
back there, but I made up a simple sling using a horse saddle belly
strap(cinge) which is fleece covered and has two very sturdy rings, $ 20. I
used a 24" piece of pipe, drilled three holes into same (use drill press
only, handheld drill will put you in mental home!) and stuck one 3/16
eyebolt upwards in the center and two downward at the ends.
Two pieces of 3/16" cable, one piece for each side (24" for the Rebel,
including loops). Attach three of the cable ends directly to the down
eyebolts and rings in cinge, using a shackle and two cable clamps at each
point, one end attach it to one of those quick disconnect snaps( heavy duty
please) and you can lift the tail by your own self. I use one of those
engine mini cranes, hook of course through the top eye. Or you could use a
simple come-along attached to the rafters providing they are strong enough
of course. I place my lift strap just forward of the lift handles I have
installed. Over the rivetline of course. Ok? Next a few questions: is
there a list somewhere of what actually happened to the over 600 Rebel kits
sold? How many projects were abandoned? How many flying? How many completed
but not flying? Why only 132 (correct?) people active on this site? I only
see about six to eight names appear myself, but I'll take someone's word for
that 132 figure. To use the cliche: Where IS everybody??? I have
temporarily abandoned the upgrade from my 2.2 liter Subaru Legacy to the 2.5
liter Eggenfellner one. It almost makes use of an electric c.s. prop
mandatory and there goes another $ 4000. My D I Y junkyard 2.2 liter is also
running fine with it's 3-bladed Warpdrive. I found the summation of the
Subaru conversions by Ken K. quite interesting and actually pretty fair. I
do agree on the resale value, but I also heard of some guys buying a Rebel
precisely because it had a Subaru engine. Go figure! One thing seems to be
never mentioned: you buy a used many times overhauled Lycoming, you are
sitting behind some old stuff, going back to what year? 1968, 1972, older?
My engine was not "born" until 1990. Eggenfellner seems to be using almost
all1999 or 2000 engines. That gives me a lot more confidence.
Finally I still have the seperate flaps on my Rebel. Can I hear from some of
the experienced guys, to yes or no convert back to flaperons? I am not all
that happy with the aileron effectiveness, so I am considering. Many thanks,
Geert

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Brian !

I doubt you'll hear ANY good stories about split flaps & ailerons
- the factory still only allows 6, 12, and 18 degrees of flap, even if
they are separate, because there are only 2 flap hanger brackets.

This means that you get half the flap, and half the aileron you
would normally get as flapperons, plus - you lose the advantage of
negative flapperon to increase cruise and stability ! Not a desirable
situation !!! Several float pilots have commented that the flapperon
really improves takeoff & landing performance on the water, as you
are changing the whole airfoil, instead of having a gap which generates
considerable turbulence... (remember the early Elite problem !)

But, some folks think that "Cessna did it, so it must be good" !! ;-)

.....bobp

----------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 12:26 AM 5/4/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi There

I am not convinced at all that splitting the flaps is a good idea. As Geert
mentions, you will defintely lose aileron effectiveness. On strong
crosswind landings, I find that you want all of the available aileron input
to keep it tracking down the centre & there are still times that I don't
have enough. I know that I am FAR from a great pilot, but my
feeling/opinion is that you want all the aileron input which the 12'
aileron/flapperon can give you.

Also, I can't really imagine what great benefit the split flap can give you
as the stall is low, and I find that I prefer half flap on landing vs. full.
Maybe someone can comment & tell us of their positive experiences with split
flaps.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank [mailto:storchpilot@mediaone.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:11 AM
To: murphy archives
Cc: Jan Eggenfellner
Subject: gobbledegook


Hi everybody. I must have the same machine as bobp, the May 1 summation came
through almost all HTML i.e. not plain text. Ian, sorry I too wanted to get
down to 8 instead of 12 bungee rings...(the 400 lbs rings), primarily to
soften up those landings a little. It does not work, the gear is now much
too "soft". Dave B. who had two landing gear failures also strongly
recommended to use all 12 loops. Next, for the person that is trying to
lift an UTVA tail (?, Wayne hisself?) the Rebel I don't think is that heavy
back there, but I made up a simple sling using a horse saddle belly
strap(cinge) which is fleece covered and has two very sturdy rings, $ 20. I
used a 24" piece of pipe, drilled three holes into same (use drill press
only, handheld drill will put you in mental home!) and stuck one 3/16
eyebolt upwards in the center and two downward at the ends.
Two pieces of 3/16" cable, one piece for each side (24" for the Rebel,
including loops). Attach three of the cable ends directly to the down
eyebolts and rings in cinge, using a shackle and two cable clamps at each
point, one end attach it to one of those quick disconnect snaps( heavy duty
please) and you can lift the tail by your own self. I use one of those
engine mini cranes, hook of course through the top eye. Or you could use a
simple come-along attached to the rafters providing they are strong enough
of course. I place my lift strap just forward of the lift handles I have
installed. Over the rivetline of course. Ok? Next a few questions: is
there a list somewhere of what actually happened to the over 600 Rebel kits
sold? How many projects were abandoned? How many flying? How many completed
but not flying? Why only 132 (correct?) people active on this site? I only
see about six to eight names appear myself, but I'll take someone's word for
that 132 figure. To use the cliche: Where IS everybody??? I have
temporarily abandoned the upgrade from my 2.2 liter Subaru Legacy to the 2.5
liter Eggenfellner one. It almost makes use of an electric c.s. prop
mandatory and there goes another $ 4000. My D I Y junkyard 2.2 liter is also
running fine with it's 3-bladed Warpdrive. I found the summation of the
Subaru conversions by Ken K. quite interesting and actually pretty fair. I
do agree on the resale value, but I also heard of some guys buying a Rebel
precisely because it had a Subaru engine. Go figure! One thing seems to be
never mentioned: you buy a used many times overhauled Lycoming, you are
sitting behind some old stuff, going back to what year? 1968, 1972, older?
My engine was not "born" until 1990. Eggenfellner seems to be using almost
all1999 or 2000 engines. That gives me a lot more confidence.
Finally I still have the seperate flaps on my Rebel. Can I hear from some of
the experienced guys, to yes or no convert back to flaperons? I am not all
that happy with the aileron effectiveness, so I am considering. Many thanks,
Geert

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
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Archives located at:
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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[rebelair]

Hi Bob

That is a good point about negative flapperon. I didn't realize or think
about the fact that if you changed the design from flapperons to aileron &
flaps that you would loose the negative flapperon capability. I do quite a
bit of cross country cruising & I would not want to give up 2 to 3 knots of
cruise. Or if you reduce power settings, you would reduce your fuel
consumption depending upon how you look at it.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 11:35 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: RE: gobbledegook



Hi Brian !

I doubt you'll hear ANY good stories about split flaps & ailerons
- the factory still only allows 6, 12, and 18 degrees of flap, even if
they are separate, because there are only 2 flap hanger brackets.

This means that you get half the flap, and half the aileron you
would normally get as flapperons, plus - you lose the advantage of
negative flapperon to increase cruise and stability ! Not a desirable
situation !!! Several float pilots have commented that the flapperon
really improves takeoff & landing performance on the water, as you
are changing the whole airfoil, instead of having a gap which generates
considerable turbulence... (remember the early Elite problem !)

But, some folks think that "Cessna did it, so it must be good" !! ;-)

.....bobp

----------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 12:26 AM 5/4/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi There

I am not convinced at all that splitting the flaps is a good idea. As

Geert

mentions, you will defintely lose aileron effectiveness. On strong
crosswind landings, I find that you want all of the available aileron input
to keep it tracking down the centre & there are still times that I don't
have enough. I know that I am FAR from a great pilot, but my
feeling/opinion is that you want all the aileron input which the 12'
aileron/flapperon can give you.

Also, I can't really imagine what great benefit the split flap can give you
as the stall is low, and I find that I prefer half flap on landing vs.

full.

Maybe someone can comment & tell us of their positive experiences with

split

flaps.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank [mailto:storchpilot@mediaone.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:11 AM
To: murphy archives
Cc: Jan Eggenfellner
Subject: gobbledegook


Hi everybody. I must have the same machine as bobp, the May 1 summation

came

through almost all HTML i.e. not plain text. Ian, sorry I too wanted to

get

down to 8 instead of 12 bungee rings...(the 400 lbs rings), primarily to
soften up those landings a little. It does not work, the gear is now much
too "soft". Dave B. who had two landing gear failures also strongly
recommended to use all 12 loops. Next, for the person that is trying to
lift an UTVA tail (?, Wayne hisself?) the Rebel I don't think is that heavy
back there, but I made up a simple sling using a horse saddle belly
strap(cinge) which is fleece covered and has two very sturdy rings, $ 20. I
used a 24" piece of pipe, drilled three holes into same (use drill press
only, handheld drill will put you in mental home!) and stuck one 3/16
eyebolt upwards in the center and two downward at the ends.
Two pieces of 3/16" cable, one piece for each side (24" for the Rebel,
including loops). Attach three of the cable ends directly to the down
eyebolts and rings in cinge, using a shackle and two cable clamps at each
point, one end attach it to one of those quick disconnect snaps( heavy duty
please) and you can lift the tail by your own self. I use one of those
engine mini cranes, hook of course through the top eye. Or you could use a
simple come-along attached to the rafters providing they are strong enough
of course. I place my lift strap just forward of the lift handles I have
installed. Over the rivetline of course. Ok? Next a few questions: is
there a list somewhere of what actually happened to the over 600 Rebel kits
sold? How many projects were abandoned? How many flying? How many completed
but not flying? Why only 132 (correct?) people active on this site? I only
see about six to eight names appear myself, but I'll take someone's word

for

that 132 figure. To use the cliche: Where IS everybody??? I have
temporarily abandoned the upgrade from my 2.2 liter Subaru Legacy to the

2.5

liter Eggenfellner one. It almost makes use of an electric c.s. prop
mandatory and there goes another $ 4000. My D I Y junkyard 2.2 liter is

also

running fine with it's 3-bladed Warpdrive. I found the summation of the
Subaru conversions by Ken K. quite interesting and actually pretty fair. I
do agree on the resale value, but I also heard of some guys buying a Rebel
precisely because it had a Subaru engine. Go figure! One thing seems to be
never mentioned: you buy a used many times overhauled Lycoming, you are
sitting behind some old stuff, going back to what year? 1968, 1972, older?
My engine was not "born" until 1990. Eggenfellner seems to be using almost
all1999 or 2000 engines. That gives me a lot more confidence.
Finally I still have the seperate flaps on my Rebel. Can I hear from some

of

the experienced guys, to yes or no convert back to flaperons? I am not all
that happy with the aileron effectiveness, so I am considering. Many

thanks,

Geert

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Archives located at:
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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
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*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
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*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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