The Murphy Builders Site

Builders:

I'm in need of some sage advice. I've purchased a Rebel project that I

I'm using lots and lots of elbow grease with maroon scotch brite pads (by

There is some corrosion on the bottom fuselage skins just under the cabin

The area I need advice on is the inside 2 feet of the wing tips. I'm

Anyone care to offer some general advice, as well as the phosphoric acid

Thanks a lot.
Signed,
First-time inexperienced builder taken advantage of through eBay
(otherwise known as Richard)

Builders:

I'm in need of some sage advice. I've purchased a Rebel project that I

I'm using lots and lots of elbow grease with maroon scotch brite pads (by

There is some corrosion on the bottom fuselage skins just under the cabin

The area I need advice on is the inside 2 feet of the wing tips. I'm

Anyone care to offer some general advice, as well as the phosphoric acid

Thanks a lot.
Signed,
First-time inexperienced builder taken advantage of through eBay
(otherwise known as Richard)

Richard

I had a lot of surface corrosion or oxidization on my kit bought second
hand
for #007, if lightly scuffed with scotch bright pad, cleaned with soap and
water dried and then put everbrite clear coat on everything and have had
no
more corrosion of any kind, check out their website
http://www.everbrite.net/


mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:02 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aluminum Cleaning Advice


Hi Richard !

By the looks of it, you may be doing more harm than good with all
that polishing !! A bit of light surface corrosion would be removed
just prior to painting by the etching process - best not to scratch
the surface before that .... Scratches can become stress risers
for cracks ...

Still, you may have gotten a better deal than you think .....
the 6061 aluminum in the Rebel will not oxidize nearly as quickly
as the 2024 used on Cessnas & RV's .... so a bit of surface stuff
is not such an immediate concern.

The "pinholes" in the floor are alarm me - are these right through
the aluminum sheet ??!!! If so, you would likely be best to replace
the whole skin ..... Also wondering why there's only corrosion
inside the wing for a couple of feet - is this from mouse urine ???
Again, if there is deep corrosion, you might have to go to a
doubler skin out there. You can get guidance from the factory
on how to do that - it has been done before. (...or ask Wayne ;-) )

It's unusual to have a lot of corrosion - unpainted Rebels
have sat outside for years with only very minor surface spots,
even in soggy Ontario. Salt water or salt breezes are another
matter, of course .... but even then, it shouldn't be tooooo bad.
Be interested to hear how this corrosion came about.

One caution - DO NOT use ANY polish, especially ones that contain
silicone - you will REALLY have a problem getting paint to stick if you do
!

Alumiprep & Alodyne should stop any further corrosion, and being
liquids, can be easy to flow into the wing, and over the outside.
Alumiprep
washing is standard procedure before epoxy priming (Alodyne treatment
after etch, before priming, is optional overkill), and final painting.
You
definitely should use an epoxy primer, for lasting protection. Most
paint shops want to do the priming and the painting at the same time,
using a consistent (one manufacturer) paint "system", to ensure
a good job. If you're at that stage anyway, might as well paint it !
:-)

You are right to be concerned about thorough flushing - it's
a must - and it IS do-able ! Also, both alumiprep & Alodyne
are 'hazmats', and must be disposed of carefully, to protect the
environment
!

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 25 January 2007 05:36, Richard E. Swan wrote:

Builders:

I'm in need of some sage advice. I've purchased a Rebel project that I

thought at first was just dirty (a 1994 vintage). As I began clean up it
became quickly apparent that I was dealing with corrosion.

I'm using lots and lots of elbow grease with maroon scotch brite pads (by

hand, by hand using pieces of pad on a cuticle stick to get to tight
areas,
self-made rotating dremel wheel of scotch brite, and an off-the shelf
maroon

wheel).

There is some corrosion on the bottom fuselage skins just under the cabin

that I believe necessitates cutting an inspection hole under both seat
areas

and the corresponding areas on the bottom to have a look-see. The
corrosion

there is bad enough that it has scarred the aluminum in some spots, and in
two places there are pin holes.

The area I need advice on is the inside 2 feet of the wing tips. I'm

considering using Alumiprep (or equivalent), flushing, and then priming -
but
I'm leery of not being able to flush out all the phosphoric acid solution
from the nooks and crannies of the internal wing ends.

Anyone care to offer some general advice, as well as the phosphoric acid

usage in the internal area of the wing tips?

Thanks a lot.
Signed,
First-time inexperienced builder taken advantage of through eBay
(otherwise known as Richard)

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Hi Richard !

By the looks of it, you may be doing more harm than good with all
that polishing !! A bit of light surface corrosion would be removed
just prior to painting by the etching process - best not to scratch
the surface before that .... Scratches can become stress risers
for cracks ...

Still, you may have gotten a better deal than you think .....
the 6061 aluminum in the Rebel will not oxidize nearly as quickly
as the 2024 used on Cessnas & RV's .... so a bit of surface stuff
is not such an immediate concern.

The "pinholes" in the floor are alarm me - are these right through
the aluminum sheet ??!!! If so, you would likely be best to replace
the whole skin ..... Also wondering why there's only corrosion
inside the wing for a couple of feet - is this from mouse urine ???
Again, if there is deep corrosion, you might have to go to a
doubler skin out there. You can get guidance from the factory
on how to do that - it has been done before. (...or ask Wayne ;-) )

It's unusual to have a lot of corrosion - unpainted Rebels
have sat outside for years with only very minor surface spots,
even in soggy Ontario. Salt water or salt breezes are another
matter, of course .... but even then, it shouldn't be tooooo bad.
Be interested to hear how this corrosion came about.

One caution - DO NOT use ANY polish, especially ones that contain
silicone - you will REALLY have a problem getting paint to stick if you do
!

Alumiprep & Alodyne should stop any further corrosion, and being
liquids, can be easy to flow into the wing, and over the outside.
Alumiprep
washing is standard procedure before epoxy priming (Alodyne treatment
after etch, before priming, is optional overkill), and final painting.
You
definitely should use an epoxy primer, for lasting protection. Most
paint shops want to do the priming and the painting at the same time,
using a consistent (one manufacturer) paint "system", to ensure
a good job. If you're at that stage anyway, might as well paint it !
:-)

You are right to be concerned about thorough flushing - it's
a must - and it IS do-able ! Also, both alumiprep & Alodyne
are 'hazmats', and must be disposed of carefully, to protect the
environment !

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 25 January 2007 05:36, Richard E. Swan wrote:

Builders:

I'm in need of some sage advice. I've purchased a Rebel project that I

thought at first was just dirty (a 1994 vintage). As I began clean up it
became quickly apparent that I was dealing with corrosion.

I'm using lots and lots of elbow grease with maroon scotch brite pads (by

hand, by hand using pieces of pad on a cuticle stick to get to tight
areas,
self-made rotating dremel wheel of scotch brite, and an off-the shelf
maroon
wheel).

There is some corrosion on the bottom fuselage skins just under the cabin

that I believe necessitates cutting an inspection hole under both seat
areas
and the corresponding areas on the bottom to have a look-see. The
corrosion
there is bad enough that it has scarred the aluminum in some spots, and in
two places there are pin holes.

The area I need advice on is the inside 2 feet of the wing tips. I'm

considering using Alumiprep (or equivalent), flushing, and then priming -
but
I'm leery of not being able to flush out all the phosphoric acid solution
from the nooks and crannies of the internal wing ends.

Anyone care to offer some general advice, as well as the phosphoric acid

usage in the internal area of the wing tips?

Thanks a lot.
Signed,
First-time inexperienced builder taken advantage of through eBay
(otherwise known as Richard)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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username "rebel" password "builder"
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Richard

I had a lot of surface corrosion or oxidization on my kit bought second
hand
for #007, if lightly scuffed with scotch bright pad, cleaned with soap and
water dried and then put everbrite clear coat on everything and have had
no
more corrosion of any kind, check out their website
http://www.everbrite.net/


mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:02 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aluminum Cleaning Advice


Hi Richard !

By the looks of it, you may be doing more harm than good with all
that polishing !! A bit of light surface corrosion would be removed
just prior to painting by the etching process - best not to scratch
the surface before that .... Scratches can become stress risers
for cracks ...

Still, you may have gotten a better deal than you think .....
the 6061 aluminum in the Rebel will not oxidize nearly as quickly
as the 2024 used on Cessnas & RV's .... so a bit of surface stuff
is not such an immediate concern.

The "pinholes" in the floor are alarm me - are these right through
the aluminum sheet ??!!! If so, you would likely be best to replace
the whole skin ..... Also wondering why there's only corrosion
inside the wing for a couple of feet - is this from mouse urine ???
Again, if there is deep corrosion, you might have to go to a
doubler skin out there. You can get guidance from the factory
on how to do that - it has been done before. (...or ask Wayne ;-) )

It's unusual to have a lot of corrosion - unpainted Rebels
have sat outside for years with only very minor surface spots,
even in soggy Ontario. Salt water or salt breezes are another
matter, of course .... but even then, it shouldn't be tooooo bad.
Be interested to hear how this corrosion came about.

One caution - DO NOT use ANY polish, especially ones that contain
silicone - you will REALLY have a problem getting paint to stick if you do
!

Alumiprep & Alodyne should stop any further corrosion, and being
liquids, can be easy to flow into the wing, and over the outside.
Alumiprep
washing is standard procedure before epoxy priming (Alodyne treatment
after etch, before priming, is optional overkill), and final painting.
You
definitely should use an epoxy primer, for lasting protection. Most
paint shops want to do the priming and the painting at the same time,
using a consistent (one manufacturer) paint "system", to ensure
a good job. If you're at that stage anyway, might as well paint it !
:-)

You are right to be concerned about thorough flushing - it's
a must - and it IS do-able ! Also, both alumiprep & Alodyne
are 'hazmats', and must be disposed of carefully, to protect the
environment
!

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 25 January 2007 05:36, Richard E. Swan wrote:

Builders:

I'm in need of some sage advice. I've purchased a Rebel project that I

thought at first was just dirty (a 1994 vintage). As I began clean up it
became quickly apparent that I was dealing with corrosion.

I'm using lots and lots of elbow grease with maroon scotch brite pads (by

hand, by hand using pieces of pad on a cuticle stick to get to tight
areas,
self-made rotating dremel wheel of scotch brite, and an off-the shelf
maroon

wheel).

There is some corrosion on the bottom fuselage skins just under the cabin

that I believe necessitates cutting an inspection hole under both seat
areas

and the corresponding areas on the bottom to have a look-see. The
corrosion

there is bad enough that it has scarred the aluminum in some spots, and in
two places there are pin holes.

The area I need advice on is the inside 2 feet of the wing tips. I'm

considering using Alumiprep (or equivalent), flushing, and then priming -
but
I'm leery of not being able to flush out all the phosphoric acid solution
from the nooks and crannies of the internal wing ends.

Anyone care to offer some general advice, as well as the phosphoric acid

usage in the internal area of the wing tips?

Thanks a lot.
Signed,
First-time inexperienced builder taken advantage of through eBay
(otherwise known as Richard)

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I'm really surprised by the "pin holes" he has though. You sure someone
didn't spill a battery in the hull..or have one charging heavily/bubbling
on
the floor right beside the open wings and under the fuselage to cause this
damage. This is about the only thing I can see eating a hole thru 6061.

----- Original Message -----
From: "mike jones" <mfjones001@cogeco.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Aluminum Cleaning Advice

Richard

I had a lot of surface corrosion or oxidization on my kit bought second
hand
for #007, if lightly scuffed with scotch bright pad, cleaned with soap
and
water dried and then put everbrite clear coat on everything and have had
no
more corrosion of any kind, check out their website
http://www.everbrite.net/


mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:02 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aluminum Cleaning Advice


Hi Richard !

By the looks of it, you may be doing more harm than good with all
that polishing !! A bit of light surface corrosion would be removed
just prior to painting by the etching process - best not to scratch
the surface before that .... Scratches can become stress risers
for cracks ...

Still, you may have gotten a better deal than you think .....
the 6061 aluminum in the Rebel will not oxidize nearly as quickly
as the 2024 used on Cessnas & RV's .... so a bit of surface stuff
is not such an immediate concern.

The "pinholes" in the floor are alarm me - are these right through
the aluminum sheet ??!!! If so, you would likely be best to replace
the whole skin ..... Also wondering why there's only corrosion
inside the wing for a couple of feet - is this from mouse urine ???
Again, if there is deep corrosion, you might have to go to a
doubler skin out there. You can get guidance from the factory
on how to do that - it has been done before. (...or ask Wayne ;-) )

It's unusual to have a lot of corrosion - unpainted Rebels
have sat outside for years with only very minor surface spots,
even in soggy Ontario. Salt water or salt breezes are another
matter, of course .... but even then, it shouldn't be tooooo bad.
Be interested to hear how this corrosion came about.

One caution - DO NOT use ANY polish, especially ones that contain
silicone - you will REALLY have a problem getting paint to stick if you
do
!

Alumiprep & Alodyne should stop any further corrosion, and being
liquids, can be easy to flow into the wing, and over the outside.
Alumiprep
washing is standard procedure before epoxy priming (Alodyne treatment
after etch, before priming, is optional overkill), and final painting.
You
definitely should use an epoxy primer, for lasting protection. Most
paint shops want to do the priming and the painting at the same time,
using a consistent (one manufacturer) paint "system", to ensure
a good job. If you're at that stage anyway, might as well paint it !
:-)

You are right to be concerned about thorough flushing - it's
a must - and it IS do-able ! Also, both alumiprep & Alodyne
are 'hazmats', and must be disposed of carefully, to protect the
environment
!

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 25 January 2007 05:36, Richard E. Swan wrote:

Builders:

I'm in need of some sage advice. I've purchased a Rebel project that I

thought at first was just dirty (a 1994 vintage). As I began clean up it
became quickly apparent that I was dealing with corrosion.

I'm using lots and lots of elbow grease with maroon scotch brite pads
(by

hand, by hand using pieces of pad on a cuticle stick to get to tight
areas,
self-made rotating dremel wheel of scotch brite, and an off-the shelf
maroon

wheel).

There is some corrosion on the bottom fuselage skins just under the
cabin

that I believe necessitates cutting an inspection hole under both seat
areas

and the corresponding areas on the bottom to have a look-see. The
corrosion

there is bad enough that it has scarred the aluminum in some spots, and
in
two places there are pin holes.

The area I need advice on is the inside 2 feet of the wing tips. I'm

considering using Alumiprep (or equivalent), flushing, and then priming -
but
I'm leery of not being able to flush out all the phosphoric acid solution
from the nooks and crannies of the internal wing ends.

Anyone care to offer some general advice, as well as the phosphoric acid

usage in the internal area of the wing tips?

Thanks a lot.
Signed,
First-time inexperienced builder taken advantage of through eBay
(otherwise known as Richard)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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