Page 1 of 1

Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by klehman
Mike

The autogyro crowd has lots of experience with the Subaru. Ask me for details at
the next Rebel meeting if you like but here's one opinion of them:

Crossflow uses a modified ej20 engine (with custom electronics) that was never
imported into North America so you are tied to them for parts and service. It
performs well on the test stand but has had some difficulty in aircraft. Very
expensive. The ej20 is great for very high power and mechanical reliability as
proven in international road rally racing. I don't believe their fuel flow
figures.

Eggenfellner seems to change parts of his design constantly so it always seems
like a work in progress to me. He uses rebuilt local engines with minimal
changes though. More reasonably priced. Probably a solid performer. Some flight
hours. Think his ej25 engines are the most popular (also slightly heavier).

Stratus uses a belt drive and carbs on the ej22. His conversions have been
around the longest and have lots of flight hours on them. Believe these are the
least expensive and possibly best value conversions. If you want to avoid fuel
injection this is the one. He doesn't need to spend much on advertising. I have
not personally seen one of these. One of the lighter high power conversions.

Subie-Lyc units will bolt onto a Lycoming dynafocal engine mount. Dave has
hundreds of hours on various models of the ej22 on his Rebel and that means a
lot. They have an impressive belt drive. They use a pricey mechanical fuel
injection system (airflow performance) but it seems to be quite reliable
combined with dual ignition. Dave flew his Rebel to Sun n Fun from Idaho. A
definate contender.

Air Ryder will do part or all of a custom engine pretty much anyway you want.
Their ones with SDS aftermarket electronics and the Marcotte gear box are very
nice. Most seem to be turboed. I don't believe they have a standard conversion
package but they will build what you want.

I personally would not deal with NSI.

High octane fuel will be required for any of the high power conversions. Costs
(and maintanance) are even higher if 100LL avgas is required.

Bottom line. Conversions usually don't save money but they burn less fuel, run
smoother, and can be dramatically cheaper to maintain. Doing your own conversion
will probably add at least a year to the project but you will know how to
maintain it. You are probably better off with a Lycoming if you are trying to
sell the aircraft or prefer to pay someone else to do your engine maintanance.
Plan on similar weight (or maybe 20 lb more) with an ej22 compared to a Lyc
0-320.

Ken

Mnleber@aol.com wrote:
1. A friend has suggested using the Cross Flow Subaru conversion instead of
the Lycoming O-235. Can anyone give me an idea as to how good this is and
where one can get information on weights, performance, durability,
serviceability etc other than from CROSSFLOW so I can talk to them
intelligently. I have been told the engine is "bullet proof" and it is well
designed and comes in many power ranges!! I am not interested in re-inventing
any wheels with this airplane.

Thanks
Mike Le Ber R683
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Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by LisaFly99
MIKE
I have REBEL # 460 with a 2.2 conversion AIRFLOW fuel injection ROSS redrive.
I can say if I where to do it again I personally would go with a LYC. or a
WALTER LOM or a FRANKLIN ! The auto conversion added about a year and a half
of working BUG'S out of the system. Of all the systems I've looked at
SUBIE-LYC is probably
you're best bet Dave Bangels has put a lot of work and thought in to his
product.
But it aint cheep.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D
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Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by Bob Patterson
Excellent summary, Ken !

I believe that the vast majority of Stratus engines were/are EA-81's,
(but I could be wrong ....)

Geert Frank has ordered an Eggenfellner EJ-25 to replace his DIY
EJ-22 with Ross drive - I'm looking forward to his report !!!!

....bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 10:01 AM 4/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
Mike

The autogyro crowd has lots of experience with the Subaru. Ask me for
details at
the next Rebel meeting if you like but here's one opinion of them:

Crossflow uses a modified ej20 engine (with custom electronics) that was never
imported into North America so you are tied to them for parts and service. It
performs well on the test stand but has had some difficulty in aircraft. Very
expensive. The ej20 is great for very high power and mechanical reliability as
proven in international road rally racing. I don't believe their fuel flow
figures.

Eggenfellner seems to change parts of his design constantly so it always seems
like a work in progress to me. He uses rebuilt local engines with minimal
changes though. More reasonably priced. Probably a solid performer. Some flight
hours. Think his ej25 engines are the most popular (also slightly heavier).

Stratus uses a belt drive and carbs on the ej22. His conversions have been
around the longest and have lots of flight hours on them. Believe these are the
least expensive and possibly best value conversions. If you want to avoid fuel
injection this is the one. He doesn't need to spend much on advertising. I have
not personally seen one of these. One of the lighter high power conversions.

Subie-Lyc units will bolt onto a Lycoming dynafocal engine mount. Dave has
hundreds of hours on various models of the ej22 on his Rebel and that means a
lot. They have an impressive belt drive. They use a pricey mechanical fuel
injection system (airflow performance) but it seems to be quite reliable
combined with dual ignition. Dave flew his Rebel to Sun n Fun from Idaho. A
definate contender.

Air Ryder will do part or all of a custom engine pretty much anyway you want.
Their ones with SDS aftermarket electronics and the Marcotte gear box are very
nice. Most seem to be turboed. I don't believe they have a standard conversion
package but they will build what you want.

I personally would not deal with NSI.

High octane fuel will be required for any of the high power conversions. Costs
(and maintanance) are even higher if 100LL avgas is required.

Bottom line. Conversions usually don't save money but they burn less fuel, run
smoother, and can be dramatically cheaper to maintain. Doing your own
conversion
will probably add at least a year to the project but you will know how to
maintain it. You are probably better off with a Lycoming if you are trying to
sell the aircraft or prefer to pay someone else to do your engine maintanance.
Plan on similar weight (or maybe 20 lb more) with an ej22 compared to a Lyc
0-320.

Ken

Mnleber@aol.com wrote:
1. A friend has suggested using the Cross Flow Subaru conversion instead of
the Lycoming O-235. Can anyone give me an idea as to how good this is and
where one can get information on weights, performance, durability,
serviceability etc other than from CROSSFLOW so I can talk to them
intelligently. I have been told the engine is "bullet proof" and it is well
designed and comes in many power ranges!! I am not interested in re-inventing
any wheels with this airplane.

Thanks
Mike Le Ber R683
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Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by rebelair
Hi Bob

What is an 'DIY' EJ-22?

Thanks

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Subaru ej22 conversions



Excellent summary, Ken !

I believe that the vast majority of Stratus engines were/are EA-81's,
(but I could be wrong ....)

Geert Frank has ordered an Eggenfellner EJ-25 to replace his DIY
EJ-22 with Ross drive - I'm looking forward to his report !!!!

....bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 10:01 AM 4/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
Mike

The autogyro crowd has lots of experience with the Subaru. Ask me for
details at
the next Rebel meeting if you like but here's one opinion of them:

Crossflow uses a modified ej20 engine (with custom electronics) that was
never
imported into North America so you are tied to them for parts and service.
It
performs well on the test stand but has had some difficulty in aircraft.
Very
expensive. The ej20 is great for very high power and mechanical reliability
as
proven in international road rally racing. I don't believe their fuel flow
figures.

Eggenfellner seems to change parts of his design constantly so it always
seems
like a work in progress to me. He uses rebuilt local engines with minimal
changes though. More reasonably priced. Probably a solid performer. Some
flight
hours. Think his ej25 engines are the most popular (also slightly heavier).

Stratus uses a belt drive and carbs on the ej22. His conversions have been
around the longest and have lots of flight hours on them. Believe these are
the
least expensive and possibly best value conversions. If you want to avoid
fuel
injection this is the one. He doesn't need to spend much on advertising. I
have
not personally seen one of these. One of the lighter high power
conversions.
Subie-Lyc units will bolt onto a Lycoming dynafocal engine mount. Dave has
hundreds of hours on various models of the ej22 on his Rebel and that means
a
lot. They have an impressive belt drive. They use a pricey mechanical fuel
injection system (airflow performance) but it seems to be quite reliable
combined with dual ignition. Dave flew his Rebel to Sun n Fun from Idaho. A
definate contender.

Air Ryder will do part or all of a custom engine pretty much anyway you
want.
Their ones with SDS aftermarket electronics and the Marcotte gear box are
very
nice. Most seem to be turboed. I don't believe they have a standard
conversion
package but they will build what you want.

I personally would not deal with NSI.

High octane fuel will be required for any of the high power conversions.
Costs
(and maintanance) are even higher if 100LL avgas is required.

Bottom line. Conversions usually don't save money but they burn less fuel,
run
smoother, and can be dramatically cheaper to maintain. Doing your own
conversion
will probably add at least a year to the project but you will know how to
maintain it. You are probably better off with a Lycoming if you are trying
to
sell the aircraft or prefer to pay someone else to do your engine
maintanance.
Plan on similar weight (or maybe 20 lb more) with an ej22 compared to a Lyc
0-320.

Ken

Mnleber@aol.com wrote:
1. A friend has suggested using the Cross Flow Subaru conversion instead
of
the Lycoming O-235. Can anyone give me an idea as to how good this is and
where one can get information on weights, performance, durability,
serviceability etc other than from CROSSFLOW so I can talk to them
intelligently. I have been told the engine is "bullet proof" and it is
well
designed and comes in many power ranges!! I am not interested in
re-inventing
any wheels with this airplane.

Thanks
Mike Le Ber R683
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Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by klehman
What is an 'DIY' EJ-22?
Darn Ingenious Yonder EnJine 2.2 litre ??

Hi Brian

Or more likely just that he didn't buy a so called "firewall forward" package
from a vendor.

Are those neat little plastic bumpers that you put on your control stick stops
available anywhere or are they "Make It Yourself" items?

Also how does one level the fuselage prior to setting the stabiliser incidence?
Level the fuselage bottom/interior floor perhaps or maybe the wing mounting bolt
holes?

Bob
The later Stratus 2.2 liter Cessna 150 performed rather spectacularly by all
accounts but yes there seem to be more of his EA81 (1.8 liter) engines around.

Ken

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Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by LisaFly99
MIKE
Another thing to think about if you live in the states is you will have an
extra 15 hr.
fly off time with an auto convertion.
Phi&Lisa Smith #460 N414D
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Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by Bob Patterson
Sorry - "DIY" is a popular British expression for "Do It Yourself" !

I believe Geert used a stock Legacy engine, and added the Ross
redrive, and a custom cooling system, fitted into a slightly modified
Murphy Rotax 912 cowling, leaving everything else completely STOCK.
It ran great, put out about 130 hp., and burned less than 6 US gal/hr.
He wants to upgrade to the EJ-25 for more power (165 hp. in the car),
as his strip is about 1,300 ft. long, with high trees at both ends -
fun to land on in the dark ;-) but a bit of a challenge to get out
of fully loaded on a hot day ....

.....bobp

-------------------------orig.-------------------------------------------
At 12:40 AM 4/29/00 -0400, you wrote:
Hi Bob

What is an 'DIY' EJ-22?

Thanks

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Subaru ej22 conversions



Excellent summary, Ken !

I believe that the vast majority of Stratus engines were/are EA-81's,
(but I could be wrong ....)

Geert Frank has ordered an Eggenfellner EJ-25 to replace his DIY
EJ-22 with Ross drive - I'm looking forward to his report !!!!

....bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 10:01 AM 4/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
Mike

The autogyro crowd has lots of experience with the Subaru. Ask me for
details at
the next Rebel meeting if you like but here's one opinion of them:

Crossflow uses a modified ej20 engine (with custom electronics) that was
never
imported into North America so you are tied to them for parts and service.
It
performs well on the test stand but has had some difficulty in aircraft.
Very
expensive. The ej20 is great for very high power and mechanical reliability
as
proven in international road rally racing. I don't believe their fuel flow
figures.

Eggenfellner seems to change parts of his design constantly so it always
seems
like a work in progress to me. He uses rebuilt local engines with minimal
changes though. More reasonably priced. Probably a solid performer. Some
flight
hours. Think his ej25 engines are the most popular (also slightly heavier).

Stratus uses a belt drive and carbs on the ej22. His conversions have been
around the longest and have lots of flight hours on them. Believe these are
the
least expensive and possibly best value conversions. If you want to avoid
fuel
injection this is the one. He doesn't need to spend much on advertising. I
have
not personally seen one of these. One of the lighter high power
conversions.
Subie-Lyc units will bolt onto a Lycoming dynafocal engine mount. Dave has
hundreds of hours on various models of the ej22 on his Rebel and that means
a
lot. They have an impressive belt drive. They use a pricey mechanical fuel
injection system (airflow performance) but it seems to be quite reliable
combined with dual ignition. Dave flew his Rebel to Sun n Fun from Idaho. A
definate contender.

Air Ryder will do part or all of a custom engine pretty much anyway you
want.
Their ones with SDS aftermarket electronics and the Marcotte gear box are
very
nice. Most seem to be turboed. I don't believe they have a standard
conversion
package but they will build what you want.

I personally would not deal with NSI.

High octane fuel will be required for any of the high power conversions.
Costs
(and maintanance) are even higher if 100LL avgas is required.

Bottom line. Conversions usually don't save money but they burn less fuel,
run
smoother, and can be dramatically cheaper to maintain. Doing your own
conversion
will probably add at least a year to the project but you will know how to
maintain it. You are probably better off with a Lycoming if you are trying
to
sell the aircraft or prefer to pay someone else to do your engine
maintanance.
Plan on similar weight (or maybe 20 lb more) with an ej22 compared to a Lyc
0-320.

Ken

Mnleber@aol.com wrote:
1. A friend has suggested using the Cross Flow Subaru conversion instead
of
the Lycoming O-235. Can anyone give me an idea as to how good this is and
where one can get information on weights, performance, durability,
serviceability etc other than from CROSSFLOW so I can talk to them
intelligently. I have been told the engine is "bullet proof" and it is
well
designed and comes in many power ranges!! I am not interested in
re-inventing
any wheels with this airplane.

Thanks
Mike Le Ber R683
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Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by Rebflyer
Hi All,
Sometime ago I dropped a line on her about 2 H2AD Lyc cores forsale. As
usual, When someone responded, I had lost the phone number.
Anyway, to refresh the memory, They are the later "T" designator,
removed for engine upgrades, complete with logs. I believe they were asking
around 3500.00 US complete with accessories. Both were near tbo at removal.
Now, ta da, the phone number!
248-625-8048 Pauline Tedder is her name,
Located in Michigan, North and alittle west of Detroit. Aprt Id PTK
You can also call me @ 248-673-0177
Curt N97MR Keep at it , it's worth it!
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Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by rebelair
Hi Bob

Thanks for the clarification. BTW, your Rebels look like they need to be
flown today. It was beautiful up there & very smooth once you got to 9000
feet which does not take long in a Rebel in a day like today.

Regards

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 2:16 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: RE: Subaru ej22 conversions



Sorry - "DIY" is a popular British expression for "Do It Yourself" !

I believe Geert used a stock Legacy engine, and added the Ross
redrive, and a custom cooling system, fitted into a slightly modified
Murphy Rotax 912 cowling, leaving everything else completely STOCK.
It ran great, put out about 130 hp., and burned less than 6 US gal/hr.
He wants to upgrade to the EJ-25 for more power (165 hp. in the car),
as his strip is about 1,300 ft. long, with high trees at both ends -
fun to land on in the dark ;-) but a bit of a challenge to get out
of fully loaded on a hot day ....

.....bobp

-------------------------orig.-------------------------------------------
At 12:40 AM 4/29/00 -0400, you wrote:
Hi Bob

What is an 'DIY' EJ-22?

Thanks

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Subaru ej22 conversions



Excellent summary, Ken !

I believe that the vast majority of Stratus engines were/are EA-81's,
(but I could be wrong ....)

Geert Frank has ordered an Eggenfellner EJ-25 to replace his DIY
EJ-22 with Ross drive - I'm looking forward to his report !!!!

....bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 10:01 AM 4/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
Mike

The autogyro crowd has lots of experience with the Subaru. Ask me for
details at
the next Rebel meeting if you like but here's one opinion of them:

Crossflow uses a modified ej20 engine (with custom electronics) that was
never
imported into North America so you are tied to them for parts and service.
It
performs well on the test stand but has had some difficulty in aircraft.
Very
expensive. The ej20 is great for very high power and mechanical
reliability
as
proven in international road rally racing. I don't believe their fuel flow
figures.

Eggenfellner seems to change parts of his design constantly so it always
seems
like a work in progress to me. He uses rebuilt local engines with minimal
changes though. More reasonably priced. Probably a solid performer. Some
flight
hours. Think his ej25 engines are the most popular (also slightly
heavier).
Stratus uses a belt drive and carbs on the ej22. His conversions have been
around the longest and have lots of flight hours on them. Believe these
are
the
least expensive and possibly best value conversions. If you want to avoid
fuel
injection this is the one. He doesn't need to spend much on advertising. I
have
not personally seen one of these. One of the lighter high power
conversions.
Subie-Lyc units will bolt onto a Lycoming dynafocal engine mount. Dave has
hundreds of hours on various models of the ej22 on his Rebel and that
means
a
lot. They have an impressive belt drive. They use a pricey mechanical fuel
injection system (airflow performance) but it seems to be quite reliable
combined with dual ignition. Dave flew his Rebel to Sun n Fun from Idaho.
A
definate contender.

Air Ryder will do part or all of a custom engine pretty much anyway you
want.
Their ones with SDS aftermarket electronics and the Marcotte gear box are
very
nice. Most seem to be turboed. I don't believe they have a standard
conversion
package but they will build what you want.

I personally would not deal with NSI.

High octane fuel will be required for any of the high power conversions.
Costs
(and maintanance) are even higher if 100LL avgas is required.

Bottom line. Conversions usually don't save money but they burn less fuel,
run
smoother, and can be dramatically cheaper to maintain. Doing your own
conversion
will probably add at least a year to the project but you will know how to
maintain it. You are probably better off with a Lycoming if you are trying
to
sell the aircraft or prefer to pay someone else to do your engine
maintanance.
Plan on similar weight (or maybe 20 lb more) with an ej22 compared to a
Lyc
0-320.

Ken

Mnleber@aol.com wrote:
1. A friend has suggested using the Cross Flow Subaru conversion instead
of
the Lycoming O-235. Can anyone give me an idea as to how good this is
and
where one can get information on weights, performance, durability,
serviceability etc other than from CROSSFLOW so I can talk to them
intelligently. I have been told the engine is "bullet proof" and it is
well
designed and comes in many power ranges!! I am not interested in
re-inventing
any wheels with this airplane.

Thanks
Mike Le Ber R683
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Subaru ej22 conversions

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm
by rebelair
HI Ken

Make those stops ourselves out of 5/8" dia. Delrin.

As far as getting the one degree angle of incidence on the stab., there are
lots of ways of doing it. We used a wooden jig which had used on many
occasions to support the tailcone area. Moved this jig back and forth
lengthwise on the tailcone until we got the airplane in level flight mode
or zero degrees and then offset the stab by one degree. (Checked the inner
floor & door sill which are both zero). Did this using with a shim of
approx. .0176" per degree of run per inch or .209" per foot. Double checked
with a digital level.

As I mentioned recently, in normal loading situations, elevator trim is
absolutley neutral. Just flew another 1.6 hours again today, and the only
thing I do with the elevator trim is to be sure that I have not accidentaly
touched it prior to takeoff. If I have, which is very easy to do in the
winter time with gloves on, I just set it back to zero and never go back.

Happy Building Ken

Brian #328R


-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net [mailto:klehman@albedo.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 9:43 AM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: Subaru ej22 conversions

What is an 'DIY' EJ-22?
Darn Ingenious Yonder EnJine 2.2 litre ??

Hi Brian

Or more likely just that he didn't buy a so called "firewall forward"
package
from a vendor.

Are those neat little plastic bumpers that you put on your control stick
stops
available anywhere or are they "Make It Yourself" items?

Also how does one level the fuselage prior to setting the stabiliser
incidence?
Level the fuselage bottom/interior floor perhaps or maybe the wing mounting
bolt
holes?

Bob
The later Stratus 2.2 liter Cessna 150 performed rather spectacularly by all
accounts but yes there seem to be more of his EA81 (1.8 liter) engines
around.

Ken

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