The Murphy Builders Site

Hi Dave,
Well I suspect you'll get a lot of answers on this one. If you look in the
archives I'm sure you'll get the whys too.
So for now I'll give you my .002
I moved mine back the 3". I would not do it again. To help compensate for
the reasons that have the concern of Daryl M, do the firewall fixes aka the
float fixes. Also do the heavier corner wraps. I think most are going to .032
corners. Wayne's firewall float fixes are great, I used them and they retro
fitted well. You may be able to just do the MAM suggested fixes firewall
easily as you are building new, and you should also do the "A" pillar fixes too.
A lot easier without the wing in the way. Keep everything you can as far
back as you can to help with the c of g.
On another note, hope the building is going well, it has been nice and
mild so the hanger heat bill should be much more tolerable.
I've even been able to go splashing as we have no ice yet! Last time on
the water was 12/23!!! The last three years the lake has been rock solid by the
first of December!!
Good luck and keep at it,it is worth it!
Curt Martin
N97MR




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Hi dave

Being kit number 007, most of what I did is probably what you will be doing
too,

I moved firewall back 3" for 0-320 because of c of g reasons
Lots don

I'm building an amphib rebel which will sport an O-360 and do not intend to
move the firewall. Others who may wish to remain un-named and have a lot
of experience with Rebels advised me of this. Keep it light with lightweight
accessories and enjoy the extra room inside the cabin. As for the mods: I
plan to go with everything proven and available to make it strong.

On 12/30/2006 2:37 PM, rebflyer@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi Dave,
-> Well I suspect you'll get a lot of answers on this one. If you look in the
-> archives I'm sure you'll get the whys too.
-> So for now I'll give you my .002
-> I moved mine back the 3". I would not do it again. To help compensate
for
-> the reasons that have the concern of Daryl M, do the firewall fixes aka
the
-> float fixes. Also do the heavier corner wraps. I think most are going
to .032
-> corners. Wayne's firewall float fixes are great, I used them and they
retro
-> fitted well. You may be able to just do the MAM suggested fixes firewall
-> easily as you are building new, and you should also do the "A" pillar fixes
too.
-> A lot easier without the wing in the way. Keep everything you can as far
-> back as you can to help with the c of g.
-> On another note, hope the building is going well, it has been nice and
-> mild so the hanger heat bill should be much more tolerable.
-> I've even been able to go splashing as we have no ice yet! Last time on
-> the water was 12/23!!! The last three years the lake has been rock solid
by the
-> first of December!!
-> Good luck and keep at it,it is worth it!
-> Curt Martin
-> N97MR
->





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It is experimental we are building but rebel was not designed for stress of
an 0-360, but good luck with it, if you look at how elite tail is designed
compared to rebel and the mods required on a super rebel to turn it into a
moose you can see all the extra strength that is required for this extra
power

Just my thoughts

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
eric.r@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 7:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel firewall

I'm building an amphib rebel which will sport an O-360 and do not intend to
move the firewall. Others who may wish to remain un-named and have a lot
of experience with Rebels advised me of this. Keep it light with lightweight

accessories and enjoy the extra room inside the cabin. As for the mods: I
plan to go with everything proven and available to make it strong.

On 12/30/2006 2:37 PM, rebflyer@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi Dave,
-> Well I suspect you'll get a lot of answers on this one. If you look in
the
-> archives I'm sure you'll get the whys too.
-> So for now I'll give you my .002
-> I moved mine back the 3". I would not do it again. To help compensate
for
-> the reasons that have the concern of Daryl M, do the firewall fixes aka
the
-> float fixes. Also do the heavier corner wraps. I think most are going
to .032
-> corners. Wayne's firewall float fixes are great, I used them and they
retro
-> fitted well. You may be able to just do the MAM suggested fixes firewall

-> easily as you are building new, and you should also do the "A" pillar
fixes
too.
-> A lot easier without the wing in the way. Keep everything you can as far

-> back as you can to help with the c of g.
-> On another note, hope the building is going well, it has been nice and

-> mild so the hanger heat bill should be much more tolerable.
-> I've even been able to go splashing as we have no ice yet! Last time
on
-> the water was 12/23!!! The last three years the lake has been rock solid
by the
-> first of December!!
-> Good luck and keep at it,it is worth it!
-> Curt Martin
-> N97MR
->





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I can't tell you what the advantage is because as near as I can tell there
aren't any.
The disadvantages are lots
- it will ad to your build time with lots of headaches along the way
- you won't be able to fit a normal radio
- you'll have to move the rudder pedals back which means you'll have to sit
farther back under the wing with reduced visibility
- the winsheild will either hang out over the firewall or have to be
installed more vertically than it was designed for
I'm sure there's other issues with cutting it back but that's what comes to
mind right now. I didn't cut my firewall back and don't regret it . My
empty C og G on wheels is 11.63" the forward limit is 10.85" and everything
that can be added moves the C of G back. On floats my empty C of G is 9.75"
but with a 150lb pilot and 30min. fuel it's 10.91" within the limits. I'm a
bit more than 150lbs so I don't worry about being too far forward and I
haven't had any problems with the flying caracteristics. My engine is an
ECI titan 0-320 with lightweight starter and alternator and a prince prop.
The firewall definately needs beefed up either by using Waynes kit or by
doing it yourself. I've looked at Waynes kit and it's excellent quality. I
don't know the price of the kit or of raw aluminum so I guess figure that
out and decide what your times worth.


At 06:11 PM 12/30/2006 -0500, you wrote:
[quote]Hi all : Can anyone tell me what is the advantage is to moving the firewall
back for the 0320 install ? or should I leave it where it is? When I spoke
to Darryl M. at OSH this summer he said that I should move it back for the
0320.
Also what about the firewall mod that Wayne sells ? Should I get this mod?
Thanks alot.
Dave Tuck/Rebel#009
Happy New Year to all !!

_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place!

I moved the firewall for the subaru and I think it was the right thing
to do for strength, stability, c of g., etc. And I didn't want to later
wish that I had moved it. However I am not really convinced that it was
worth the effort. If doing another one I'd probably leave it alone but
put the battery in the back. Note that moving the battery back changes
the c of g much much more than moving the firewall. Someone with long
legs probably would especially not want to move the FW.
My icom A200 VHF did fit fine at the bottom of the panel and some of the
newer avionics seem to be not near as deep as the icomm.
Ken

David L. Tuck wrote:

Hi all : Can anyone tell me what is the advantage is to moving the firewall
back for the 0320 install ? or should I leave it where it is? When I spoke
to Darryl M. at OSH this summer he said that I should move it back for the
0320.
Also what about the firewall mod that Wayne sells ? Should I get this mod?
Thanks alot.
Dave Tuck/Rebel#009
Happy New Year to all !!

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G'day from OZ Dave !

Whilst many people DO cut their firewall back - its not 100 percent necessary !
(and if /when you do cut it back , you will find that a lot of instruments are a very tight fit on the panel because of the reduced room behind them )

We have an I. O. 320 in Rebel 541 ..... AND a light weight gel cell "Decca" battery on the engine side of the firewall - and we get our balance from the 10kg (22 Lbs) of lead shot tied down right near the rudder post - and she flares wonderfully !

And a big YES on Wayne's firewall modification !!! - to unless you'd like to see your firewall " crinkle " as it compresses under the strain of the bigger engine and landing forces !

Rick "Biggus" Harper
R541
----- Original Message -----
From: David L. Tuck
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:11 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel firewall


Hi all : Can anyone tell me what is the advantage is to moving the firewall
back for the 0320 install ? or should I leave it where it is? When I spoke
to Darryl M. at OSH this summer he said that I should move it back for the
0320.
Also what about the firewall mod that Wayne sells ? Should I get this mod?
Thanks alot.
Dave Tuck/Rebel#009
Happy New Year to all !!

_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
Sales & Deals
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ct ... ata=200639




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Brad

You can put stainless plate of same thickness over top the aluminum
firewall,

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Brad
Hewlett
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 10:35 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Firewall

Found another problem with finishing an old kit.
Went to install the firewall this week end and discovered that it is
aluminum.

Checked with Murphy and they confirmed that the old kits were shipped this
way. A new stainless steel firewall is $ 300.00

Anyone out there have a different solution. Possibly a stainless cover? if
so any suggestions as to thickness and type.

Thanks,
Brad (R-195)

Brad Hewlett
Saskatoon, SK
bhewlett@sasktel.net

-----




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Hi Brad: I have the same thing with Rebel 192 and I plan to put a stainless
sheet over it as well. Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Hewlett" <bhewlett@sasktel.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Firewall

Found another problem with finishing an old kit.
Went to install the firewall this week end and discovered that it is
aluminum.

Checked with Murphy and they confirmed that the old kits were shipped this
way. A new stainless steel firewall is $ 300.00

Anyone out there have a different solution. Possibly a stainless cover? if
so any suggestions as to thickness and type.

Thanks,
Brad (R-195)

Brad Hewlett
Saskatoon, SK
bhewlett@sasktel.net

-----




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Hi Brad !

You can just overlay a sheet of .018 (or thereabouts) Stainless Steel,
OR - you can cover the firewall with FiberFrax - available in rolls
from Aircraft Spruce, etc. ... lightweight, and easy to install. It
must be glued on with the Silica adhesive recommended for
FiberFrax. (FiberFrax is a ceramic fabric, sometimes used to
line blast furnaces.) Helps a bit with sound too ....

You might want to coat the outside of the FiberFrax with
Silica too, to stop oil penetration.

There is at least one Rebel I know of flying with the aluminum
firewall covered with FiberFrax - has been for over 10 years !

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 07 March 2007 15:34, Brad Hewlett wrote:

Found another problem with finishing an old kit.
Went to install the firewall this week end and discovered that it is
aluminum.

Checked with Murphy and they confirmed that the old kits were shipped this
way. A new stainless steel firewall is $ 300.00

Anyone out there have a different solution. Possibly a stainless cover? if
so any suggestions as to thickness and type.

Thanks,
Brad (R-195)

Brad Hewlett
Saskatoon, SK
bhewlett@sasktel.net

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Hi Brad, IMHO the firewall is such an important part of the fuse, that for
$300 it's probably worth the piece of mind and of course the re-sale value.
Add Wayne's re-enforcing pieces - especially for floats - and your Rebel
will compete with any others that are on the market - IF and when you go to
sell it. I'm currently wiring my Rebel and just drilling the stainless
versus the aluminum illustrates the strength difference to me. Now having
said that there's a lot of builders that know more than I do!

Cheers
Jim
Rebel 333


On 3/7/2007 10:34 AM, "Brad Hewlett" <bhewlett@sasktel.net> wrote:

Found another problem with finishing an old kit.
Went to install the firewall this week end and discovered that it is
aluminum.

Checked with Murphy and they confirmed that the old kits were shipped this
way. A new stainless steel firewall is $ 300.00

Anyone out there have a different solution. Possibly a stainless cover? if
so any suggestions as to thickness and type.

Thanks,
Brad (R-195)

Brad Hewlett
Saskatoon, SK
bhewlett@sasktel.net

-----




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Remember when drilling that stainless....dip your bit in water after EVERY
hole (I just use a coke cup full of water). The bit will last for the whole
firewall...as opposed to 4 holes!

New firewall or stainless sheet...either way. The stainless over the alum
gives you a stronger firewall...but be sure to coat the entire thing with a
heavy smooth spray of epoxy after you're done drilling/deburring...and let
it dry..then assemble the stainless to the aluminum......otherwise you have
similar to a battery with two different plate materials to aid in corrosion.

As Bob points out there is also the Fiberfrax route...but like it was for
the airplane he is referencing...it would be an absolute last choice for me.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Firewall

Hi Brad, IMHO the firewall is such an important part of the fuse, that for
$300 it's probably worth the piece of mind and of course the re-sale
value.
Add Wayne's re-enforcing pieces - especially for floats - and your Rebel
will compete with any others that are on the market - IF and when you go
to
sell it. I'm currently wiring my Rebel and just drilling the stainless
versus the aluminum illustrates the strength difference to me. Now having
said that there's a lot of builders that know more than I do!

Cheers
Jim
Rebel 333


On 3/7/2007 10:34 AM, "Brad Hewlett" <bhewlett@sasktel.net> wrote:

Found another problem with finishing an old kit.
Went to install the firewall this week end and discovered that it is
aluminum.

Checked with Murphy and they confirmed that the old kits were shipped
this
way. A new stainless steel firewall is $ 300.00

Anyone out there have a different solution. Possibly a stainless cover?
if
so any suggestions as to thickness and type.

Thanks,
Brad (R-195)

Brad Hewlett
Saskatoon, SK
bhewlett@sasktel.net

-----




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Thank you for all the input...

Problem solved.

Brad.

Brad Hewlett
Saskatoon, SK
bhewlett@sasktel.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Firewall

Hi Brad, IMHO the firewall is such an important part of the fuse, that for
$300 it's probably worth the piece of mind and of course the re-sale
value.
Add Wayne's re-enforcing pieces - especially for floats - and your Rebel
will compete with any others that are on the market - IF and when you go
to
sell it. I'm currently wiring my Rebel and just drilling the stainless
versus the aluminum illustrates the strength difference to me. Now having
said that there's a lot of builders that know more than I do!

Cheers
Jim
Rebel 333


On 3/7/2007 10:34 AM, "Brad Hewlett" <bhewlett@sasktel.net> wrote:

Found another problem with finishing an old kit.
Went to install the firewall this week end and discovered that it is
aluminum.

Checked with Murphy and they confirmed that the old kits were shipped
this
way. A new stainless steel firewall is $ 300.00

Anyone out there have a different solution. Possibly a stainless cover?
if
so any suggestions as to thickness and type.

Thanks,
Brad (R-195)

Brad Hewlett
Saskatoon, SK
bhewlett@sasktel.net

-----




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The original SR-2500 kit also had aluminum firewall. Fix was to cut and
piece a sheet of stainless steel to fit all of the cavities and curves of
the firewall. It was then riveted to the firewall prior to install. It
seems to have worked well and there are few if any gaps that would be open
to flame from the engine compartment.

Charlie Starr - SR N96CS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Hewlett" <bhewlett@sasktel.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Firewall

Found another problem with finishing an old kit.
Went to install the firewall this week end and discovered that it is
aluminum.

Checked with Murphy and they confirmed that the old kits were shipped this
way. A new stainless steel firewall is $ 300.00

Anyone out there have a different solution. Possibly a stainless cover? if
so any suggestions as to thickness and type.

Thanks,
Brad (R-195)

Brad Hewlett
Saskatoon, SK
bhewlett@sasktel.net

-----




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A thin stainless lamination added about 6 lb for me but it added some
strength, some mass for low frequency noise reduction, and some
insulation for heat reduction. But since a stainless FW must weigh more
than the aluminum one, I still figure that the $/lb tradeoff was more
than the $100. per lb. figure that some folks use to justify weight
savings. ;) If you choose not to add FW reinforcing plates, the extra
strength might be a good idea. I like solid cobalt drill bits and a
firm push on the drill for stainless.
Ken

Brad Hewlett wrote:

Found another problem with finishing an old kit.
Went to install the firewall this week end and discovered that it is
aluminum.

Checked with Murphy and they confirmed that the old kits were shipped this
way. A new stainless steel firewall is $ 300.00

Anyone out there have a different solution. Possibly a stainless cover? if
so any suggestions as to thickness and type.

Thanks,
Brad (R-195)

Brad Hewlett
Saskatoon, SK
bhewlett@sasktel.net

-----

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