For Brian #328R,
I was curious why you think installing the elevator trim was a waste of
time? I'm working on the elevators now.
Roger #687R
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Elevator trim
-
BILNEWKIRK
Elevator trim
I HAVE 115 HOURS ON REBEL #376 AND HAVE FOUND THE TRIM TO BE OF LITTLE OR NO
USE. LAST WEEK I WENT TO TUCSON, ARIZONA AND BACK (700 MILES). THE PLANE
WAS EASIER TO STABILIZE WITH SMALL INPUTS OF THROTTLE THAN WITH ELEVATOR TRIM
... I WOULD NOT INSTALL IT AGAIN
BILL NEWKIRK, #376
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USE. LAST WEEK I WENT TO TUCSON, ARIZONA AND BACK (700 MILES). THE PLANE
WAS EASIER TO STABILIZE WITH SMALL INPUTS OF THROTTLE THAN WITH ELEVATOR TRIM
... I WOULD NOT INSTALL IT AGAIN
BILL NEWKIRK, #376
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Wayne G. O'Shea
Elevator trim
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 155 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 23:28:31 on 14 Apr 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most seem to have this opinion of the elevator trim. However, I'm sure you
will use it if you ever want to fly hands off on a long X-country (with a
different c of g than from your circuit flying). The biggest reason to
install it is to have 2 means of controlling the axis. What would you do,
God forbid, when your elevator cable breaks or a horn breaks off the control
column??? Go along for one LAST ride (saying over and over again I wish I
had installed the trim) or control your destiny with the trim control and
power inputs to land safely!!
Everyone says they don't use it, but when you look at their planes the trim
is never in the neutral position!(usually nose up) Except Howards! I mounted
his horizontal stabilizer at 0.6 degrees instead of 1.0 degree as I found
mine always had nose up trim. Mounting at 0.6 gave the neccesary built in
nose up correction without adding the drag of the trim tab down and elevator
up, to correct for nose heavyness. (note that both our planes do not have
the firewall moved back)
I'm sure Brian will use his trim when all loaded up with tents, sleeping
bags, food, beer, beer, beer, etc. etc. on the Ramble. He just might need a
little nose down trim to keep it level! Hey Brian, weren't you supposed to
do Sun-n-Fun???
As always, just my 2 cents Canadian,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: BILNEWKIRK@aol.com <BILNEWKIRK@aol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Elevator trim
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Your following message has been delivered to the 155 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 23:28:31 on 14 Apr 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most seem to have this opinion of the elevator trim. However, I'm sure you
will use it if you ever want to fly hands off on a long X-country (with a
different c of g than from your circuit flying). The biggest reason to
install it is to have 2 means of controlling the axis. What would you do,
God forbid, when your elevator cable breaks or a horn breaks off the control
column??? Go along for one LAST ride (saying over and over again I wish I
had installed the trim) or control your destiny with the trim control and
power inputs to land safely!!
Everyone says they don't use it, but when you look at their planes the trim
is never in the neutral position!(usually nose up) Except Howards! I mounted
his horizontal stabilizer at 0.6 degrees instead of 1.0 degree as I found
mine always had nose up trim. Mounting at 0.6 gave the neccesary built in
nose up correction without adding the drag of the trim tab down and elevator
up, to correct for nose heavyness. (note that both our planes do not have
the firewall moved back)
I'm sure Brian will use his trim when all loaded up with tents, sleeping
bags, food, beer, beer, beer, etc. etc. on the Ramble. He just might need a
little nose down trim to keep it level! Hey Brian, weren't you supposed to
do Sun-n-Fun???
As always, just my 2 cents Canadian,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: BILNEWKIRK@aol.com <BILNEWKIRK@aol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Elevator trim
NOI HAVE 115 HOURS ON REBEL #376 AND HAVE FOUND THE TRIM TO BE OF LITTLE OR
TRIMUSE. LAST WEEK I WENT TO TUCSON, ARIZONA AND BACK (700 MILES). THE PLANE
WAS EASIER TO STABILIZE WITH SMALL INPUTS OF THROTTLE THAN WITH ELEVATOR
---------*... I WOULD NOT INSTALL IT AGAIN
BILL NEWKIRK, #376
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-
rebelair
Elevator trim
Hi Roger
I have flown just over 100 hours on the 0320 powered Rebel. My C of G came
in about 11.25". At this number, and with different weights on board of
people & fuel, I have only used the elevator trim two times. Even when I
used the trim, I did so only briefly, and I'm not even sure it was
worthwhile.
This is not my normal technique. I trained on the Cessna 172 & used trim
constantly to depending upon power setting etc. I always used it to keep
the wheel light when on a 65 knot final approach. Every flight required it
to keep the forces down.
Not so on the Rebel. The aircraft is always well balanced. You are probably
better off in trying to fly the aircraft without an elevator trim assuming
your C of G is in the proper range. Why install equipment that you will not
use? So far it has not been necessary. I have not however tried flying the
aircraft with the C of G in the extreme aft position. MAM has greatly
decreased the C of G range & I always fly it in the recommended ranges & am
very happy with it.
It is a great aircraft!
Regards
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger & Alice Hoffman [mailto:rognal@continet.com]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 9:50 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Elevator trim
For Brian #328R,
I was curious why you think installing the elevator trim was a waste of
time? I'm working on the elevators now.
Roger #687R
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I have flown just over 100 hours on the 0320 powered Rebel. My C of G came
in about 11.25". At this number, and with different weights on board of
people & fuel, I have only used the elevator trim two times. Even when I
used the trim, I did so only briefly, and I'm not even sure it was
worthwhile.
This is not my normal technique. I trained on the Cessna 172 & used trim
constantly to depending upon power setting etc. I always used it to keep
the wheel light when on a 65 knot final approach. Every flight required it
to keep the forces down.
Not so on the Rebel. The aircraft is always well balanced. You are probably
better off in trying to fly the aircraft without an elevator trim assuming
your C of G is in the proper range. Why install equipment that you will not
use? So far it has not been necessary. I have not however tried flying the
aircraft with the C of G in the extreme aft position. MAM has greatly
decreased the C of G range & I always fly it in the recommended ranges & am
very happy with it.
It is a great aircraft!
Regards
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger & Alice Hoffman [mailto:rognal@continet.com]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 9:50 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Elevator trim
For Brian #328R,
I was curious why you think installing the elevator trim was a waste of
time? I'm working on the elevators now.
Roger #687R
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rebelair
Elevator trim
Hi Wayne
I really wanted to go to Sun 'n Fun and took the week off to do it. But we
had snow here even on Wednesday this week. I thought this was the month of
April not March. The weather is ridiculous. They were forecasting some
nasty stuff moving in from the west & we were not sure that we could make it
back on time. As it turned out I could have. Oh well ... next year.
I just read your comment on trim after I posted mine. You are right, I have
not tried the airplane heavily loaded in the rear. However, in all my
flying, the trim is dead in line with the rest of the elevator. The 11" C
of G seems just about right for the airplane. I must try controlling the
airplane with trim only. I forgot about that point. That would be quite an
experience. For safety reasons, I agree, install the trim. But, you had
better check it regularily on preflight, because 95% of the time on my
REbel, it will stay dead centered.
Regards
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 11:26 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Elevator trim
Most seem to have this opinion of the elevator trim. However, I'm sure you
will use it if you ever want to fly hands off on a long X-country (with a
different c of g than from your circuit flying). The biggest reason to
install it is to have 2 means of controlling the axis. What would you do,
God forbid, when your elevator cable breaks or a horn breaks off the control
column??? Go along for one LAST ride (saying over and over again I wish I
had installed the trim) or control your destiny with the trim control and
power inputs to land safely!!
Everyone says they don't use it, but when you look at their planes the trim
is never in the neutral position!(usually nose up) Except Howards! I mounted
his horizontal stabilizer at 0.6 degrees instead of 1.0 degree as I found
mine always had nose up trim. Mounting at 0.6 gave the neccesary built in
nose up correction without adding the drag of the trim tab down and elevator
up, to correct for nose heavyness. (note that both our planes do not have
the firewall moved back)
I'm sure Brian will use his trim when all loaded up with tents, sleeping
bags, food, beer, beer, beer, etc. etc. on the Ramble. He just might need a
little nose down trim to keep it level! Hey Brian, weren't you supposed to
do Sun-n-Fun???
As always, just my 2 cents Canadian,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: BILNEWKIRK@aol.com <BILNEWKIRK@aol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Elevator trim
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Archives located at:
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*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
I really wanted to go to Sun 'n Fun and took the week off to do it. But we
had snow here even on Wednesday this week. I thought this was the month of
April not March. The weather is ridiculous. They were forecasting some
nasty stuff moving in from the west & we were not sure that we could make it
back on time. As it turned out I could have. Oh well ... next year.
I just read your comment on trim after I posted mine. You are right, I have
not tried the airplane heavily loaded in the rear. However, in all my
flying, the trim is dead in line with the rest of the elevator. The 11" C
of G seems just about right for the airplane. I must try controlling the
airplane with trim only. I forgot about that point. That would be quite an
experience. For safety reasons, I agree, install the trim. But, you had
better check it regularily on preflight, because 95% of the time on my
REbel, it will stay dead centered.
Regards
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 11:26 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Elevator trim
Most seem to have this opinion of the elevator trim. However, I'm sure you
will use it if you ever want to fly hands off on a long X-country (with a
different c of g than from your circuit flying). The biggest reason to
install it is to have 2 means of controlling the axis. What would you do,
God forbid, when your elevator cable breaks or a horn breaks off the control
column??? Go along for one LAST ride (saying over and over again I wish I
had installed the trim) or control your destiny with the trim control and
power inputs to land safely!!
Everyone says they don't use it, but when you look at their planes the trim
is never in the neutral position!(usually nose up) Except Howards! I mounted
his horizontal stabilizer at 0.6 degrees instead of 1.0 degree as I found
mine always had nose up trim. Mounting at 0.6 gave the neccesary built in
nose up correction without adding the drag of the trim tab down and elevator
up, to correct for nose heavyness. (note that both our planes do not have
the firewall moved back)
I'm sure Brian will use his trim when all loaded up with tents, sleeping
bags, food, beer, beer, beer, etc. etc. on the Ramble. He just might need a
little nose down trim to keep it level! Hey Brian, weren't you supposed to
do Sun-n-Fun???
As always, just my 2 cents Canadian,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: BILNEWKIRK@aol.com <BILNEWKIRK@aol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Elevator trim
NOI HAVE 115 HOURS ON REBEL #376 AND HAVE FOUND THE TRIM TO BE OF LITTLE OR
TRIMUSE. LAST WEEK I WENT TO TUCSON, ARIZONA AND BACK (700 MILES). THE PLANE
WAS EASIER TO STABILIZE WITH SMALL INPUTS OF THROTTLE THAN WITH ELEVATOR
---------*... I WOULD NOT INSTALL IT AGAIN
BILL NEWKIRK, #376
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
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Bob Windom
Elevator trim
For Roger, My Rebel #226 has elevator trim and I highly recommend it. I
fly from Montana to Arizona and back most years as well as to Arlington, Wn.
and Oshkosh . I use the trim all of the time even on short flights. 226MR
is powered with an O320 and I cut two inches from the firewall and put my
battery in the back in order to maintain my C G.
Bob Windom
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger & Alice Hoffman <rognal@continet.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 7:50 PM
Subject: Elevator trim
--------*
--------*
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fly from Montana to Arizona and back most years as well as to Arlington, Wn.
and Oshkosh . I use the trim all of the time even on short flights. 226MR
is powered with an O320 and I cut two inches from the firewall and put my
battery in the back in order to maintain my C G.
Bob Windom
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger & Alice Hoffman <rognal@continet.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 7:50 PM
Subject: Elevator trim
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------For Brian #328R,
I was curious why you think installing the elevator trim was a waste of
time? I'm working on the elevators now.
Roger #687R
--------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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--------*
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Bob Patterson
Elevator trim
Roger,
Don't worry, go ahead and install the trim ! Most builders
agree that you don't use it <much>, but it <IS> good to have. I usually
have to set it once, for each load configuration, and then the Rebel
flies hands-off for the rest of the trip - BUT - without the trim,
even the lightest control pressure can become annoying and dangerous
on a longer flight .... (and I have flown <some> Rebels that REALLY
needed the trim to get the right setting !)
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 06:50 PM 4/14/00 -0700, you wrote:
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Don't worry, go ahead and install the trim ! Most builders
agree that you don't use it <much>, but it <IS> good to have. I usually
have to set it once, for each load configuration, and then the Rebel
flies hands-off for the rest of the trip - BUT - without the trim,
even the lightest control pressure can become annoying and dangerous
on a longer flight .... (and I have flown <some> Rebels that REALLY
needed the trim to get the right setting !)
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 06:50 PM 4/14/00 -0700, you wrote:
---------*For Brian #328R,
I was curious why you think installing the elevator trim was a waste of
time? I'm working on the elevators now.
Roger #687R
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Roger & Alice Hoffman
Elevator Trim
All,
I'm starting the elevator trim assembly this evening and was wondering about
the continuous hinge. The manual only indicates a 30" length of aluminum
hinge is required. It makes no mention of width or thickness.
I know I can get it through the aircraft parts catalogs, but would
appreciate some suggestions on proper size.
Thanks for the help,
Roger #687R
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I'm starting the elevator trim assembly this evening and was wondering about
the continuous hinge. The manual only indicates a 30" length of aluminum
hinge is required. It makes no mention of width or thickness.
I know I can get it through the aircraft parts catalogs, but would
appreciate some suggestions on proper size.
Thanks for the help,
Roger #687R
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Bob Patterson
Elevator Trim
Wasn't there some hinge material included in your kit ???
.....bobp
-----------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 03:59 PM 4/21/00 -0700, you wrote:
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.....bobp
-----------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 03:59 PM 4/21/00 -0700, you wrote:
---------*All,
I'm starting the elevator trim assembly this evening and was wondering about
the continuous hinge. The manual only indicates a 30" length of aluminum
hinge is required. It makes no mention of width or thickness.
I know I can get it through the aircraft parts catalogs, but would
appreciate some suggestions on proper size.
Thanks for the help,
Roger #687R
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Wayne G. O'Shea
Elevator Trim
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 157 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 19:41:02 on 21 Apr 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger, the hinge should have come in your kit, (assuming you bought the trim
option through MAM). If you didn't buy the option from MAM use a P3 or P4
hinge. P3 is 1 1/4" O/A width(when open flat) and P4 is 1 1/2" OAW. Both are
40thou thick. The kit supplied hinge was "open" loop style MS20257 or you
can splurge and buy the extruded MS20001 at 5 times the price.
Keep at it, It's worth it!!
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger & Alice Hoffman <rognal@continet.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:02 PM
Subject: Elevator Trim
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Roger, the hinge should have come in your kit, (assuming you bought the trim
option through MAM). If you didn't buy the option from MAM use a P3 or P4
hinge. P3 is 1 1/4" O/A width(when open flat) and P4 is 1 1/2" OAW. Both are
40thou thick. The kit supplied hinge was "open" loop style MS20257 or you
can splurge and buy the extruded MS20001 at 5 times the price.
Keep at it, It's worth it!!
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger & Alice Hoffman <rognal@continet.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:02 PM
Subject: Elevator Trim
aboutAll,
I'm starting the elevator trim assembly this evening and was wondering
---------*the continuous hinge. The manual only indicates a 30" length of aluminum
hinge is required. It makes no mention of width or thickness.
I know I can get it through the aircraft parts catalogs, but would
appreciate some suggestions on proper size.
Thanks for the help,
Roger #687R
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rebelair
Elevator Trim
HI Folks
My elevator trim kit was shipped complete. I did not have to buy anything
for the airplane for years, that is until the skylights & fuel system were
started on.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:12 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Elevator Trim
Wasn't there some hinge material included in your kit ???
.....bobp
-----------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 03:59 PM 4/21/00 -0700, you wrote:
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My elevator trim kit was shipped complete. I did not have to buy anything
for the airplane for years, that is until the skylights & fuel system were
started on.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:12 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Elevator Trim
Wasn't there some hinge material included in your kit ???
.....bobp
-----------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 03:59 PM 4/21/00 -0700, you wrote:
aboutAll,
I'm starting the elevator trim assembly this evening and was wondering
---------*the continuous hinge. The manual only indicates a 30" length of aluminum
hinge is required. It makes no mention of width or thickness.
I know I can get it through the aircraft parts catalogs, but would
appreciate some suggestions on proper size.
Thanks for the help,
Roger #687R
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
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Archives located at:
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*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
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Randy Straeten
Elevator Trim
Hi Folks
I have kit #682 and there is no hinge materials for the elevator trim in my
kit either, Bob do you know if they are not shipping that as part of the
kit now?
Randy Straeten
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I have kit #682 and there is no hinge materials for the elevator trim in my
kit either, Bob do you know if they are not shipping that as part of the
kit now?
Randy Straeten
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Bob Patterson
Elevator Trim
AFAIK, it <should> be included ! Was it on the packing list, as a
backorder, perhaps ???
Maybe a call to Elaine in shipping is in order ....
Will try to find out what the story is !
....bobp
---------------------------orig.-------------------------------------------
At 11:51 AM 4/22/00 -0400, you wrote:
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backorder, perhaps ???
Maybe a call to Elaine in shipping is in order ....
Will try to find out what the story is !
....bobp
---------------------------orig.-------------------------------------------
At 11:51 AM 4/22/00 -0400, you wrote:
---------*Hi Folks
I have kit #682 and there is no hinge materials for the elevator trim in my
kit either, Bob do you know if they are not shipping that as part of the
kit now?
Randy Straeten
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Roger & Alice Hoffman
Elevator trim
All,
Nope. No hinge in my kit. Everything else is there. I think the trim is a
standard item now. I was not given an option. The trim kit parts are listed
on a separate parts list which is made a part of that chapter in my manual.
It lists the hinge, but it wasn't in the kit.
Wayne thanks for the info regarding hinge size. That is exactly what I was
looking for.
With regard to my question about moving the trim cut line, I elected to cut
it at the required distance. I felt that to move the trim spar, which is a
fixed height, further into the taper of the trim tab would upset the overall
thickness of the whole piece. If that makes any sense.
Anyway, I'm moving on...
Roger #687R
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Nope. No hinge in my kit. Everything else is there. I think the trim is a
standard item now. I was not given an option. The trim kit parts are listed
on a separate parts list which is made a part of that chapter in my manual.
It lists the hinge, but it wasn't in the kit.
Wayne thanks for the info regarding hinge size. That is exactly what I was
looking for.
With regard to my question about moving the trim cut line, I elected to cut
it at the required distance. I felt that to move the trim spar, which is a
fixed height, further into the taper of the trim tab would upset the overall
thickness of the whole piece. If that makes any sense.
Anyway, I'm moving on...
Roger #687R
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Bob Patterson
Elevator trim
Good point ! You <could> just cut up a piece of the door or window
hinge -- maybe they even sent a little extra, just for the trim tab ??
Should have a definitive answer soooooon .....
....bobp
-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 03:55 PM 4/23/00 -0700, you wrote:
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hinge -- maybe they even sent a little extra, just for the trim tab ??
Should have a definitive answer soooooon .....
....bobp
-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 03:55 PM 4/23/00 -0700, you wrote:
---------*All,
Nope. No hinge in my kit. Everything else is there. I think the trim is a
standard item now. I was not given an option. The trim kit parts are listed
on a separate parts list which is made a part of that chapter in my manual.
It lists the hinge, but it wasn't in the kit.
Wayne thanks for the info regarding hinge size. That is exactly what I was
looking for.
With regard to my question about moving the trim cut line, I elected to cut
it at the required distance. I felt that to move the trim spar, which is a
fixed height, further into the taper of the trim tab would upset the overall
thickness of the whole piece. If that makes any sense.
Anyway, I'm moving on...
Roger #687R
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