[rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Yes Charlie I've seen it done before. If you are going to do it make sure
you add a doubler of .025 across the corner/access hole/etc. as that was the
downfall of the one I saw/had to work on. If you get your hinge bolt/bushing
set right wear won't be an issue anyhow. You want the bolt just tight enough
that it rotates inside the steel bushing. If you make it too tight then the
bushing rotates in the the alum instead.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Hi all

I am ready to do the final assembly of the horizontal stabilizers of my
Rebel. I am concerned about eventual wear in the 3/8 Dia. hole of the
hinge
brackets ST-25. To allow easy installation and remove of the elevator
hinge
brackets. I am thinking of installing 1" dia. hole plugs in the aft
corners
of the bottom skin of each stabilizer. This will provide wrench access to
check rotation of the AN-3 bolt and nut assembly. Does anyone see any
thing
wrong with this, are maybe have a better way?

Charlie E. 802R




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Gary...stick to the manual! The tail cone of the Rebel is not set up to take
the torsion loads of a cantilever tail. We'd like to hear your flying
reports...not your wife posting you are no longer "on-line".

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@adelphia.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Since there has been some recent discussion about Horizontal
Stabilizers, I thought that I would ask a question about
making the horizontal stabilizer all one piece (rather than
in two pieces). It would clean up the aerodynamics a bit by
eliminating the support struts and the block by the tail
wheel spring. However I suspect that the internal tail cone
would have to be beefed up and the stabilizer spars would
have to be tied together.

Has it been done before? What is entailed?

Gary Gustafson




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[Robert Johnson]

Gary, I agree with Wayne. Having built two Rebels and now on my third, the
Rebel setup is by far lighter, stronger and simpler then a cantaliever
design.I am also currently assembling a Moose and even after the boxing in
and beaf ups done to the tail cone area, the set up would be much better
based on the Rebel concept. These aircraft are far from a speed range where
the absence of a few extra struts makes a differance. JMHO. - Bob Johnson.
(Rebel 192/731, Moose 226)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Gary...stick to the manual! The tail cone of the Rebel is not set up to
take
the torsion loads of a cantilever tail. We'd like to hear your flying
reports...not your wife posting you are no longer "on-line".

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@adelphia.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Since there has been some recent discussion about Horizontal
Stabilizers, I thought that I would ask a question about
making the horizontal stabilizer all one piece (rather than
in two pieces). It would clean up the aerodynamics a bit by
eliminating the support struts and the block by the tail
wheel spring. However I suspect that the internal tail cone
would have to be beefed up and the stabilizer spars would
have to be tied together.

Has it been done before? What is entailed?

Gary Gustafson




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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Gary !

I'll second (& third !) Wayne's comments !!! I don't think I'd
BE here if it weren't for those tail struts ! Don't mess with it,
just GET IT FLYING(tm) !!! :-)

If you're worried about cleaning the tail up a bit, you can
make balsa wood triangular fairings for the back of those strut
tubes and greatly reduce the drag. It helps !

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 27 November 2006 12:25 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Gary...stick to the manual! The tail cone of the Rebel is not set up to take
the torsion loads of a cantilever tail. We'd like to hear your flying
reports...not your wife posting you are no longer "on-line".

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@adelphia.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Since there has been some recent discussion about Horizontal
Stabilizers, I thought that I would ask a question about
making the horizontal stabilizer all one piece (rather than
in two pieces). It would clean up the aerodynamics a bit by
eliminating the support struts and the block by the tail
wheel spring. However I suspect that the internal tail cone
would have to be beefed up and the stabilizer spars would
have to be tied together.

Has it been done before? What is entailed?

Gary Gustafson

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[Gary Gustafson]

Thanks for the many comments and I was sure that I could count on a
prod from Wayne. PS Not to make you feel bad - I have had a hard time
this past 13 months after many operations, confined to bed with limited
up time (1/2 hour twice a day), and no ability to see my plane. It is
a hanger queen wanting some attention. My brother is over here now to
help and I should be able to work on it more and more. Next step is to
start the engine. My problem is that I have had too much time while lying
in bed to think up off-beat questions. So I appreciate the confirmation
of my thoughts.

One last question - how has the Elite tail cone area been beefed up to
support its cantilever tail?

Soon to be back working on the Rebel.

Gary Gustafson

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 12:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Gary...stick to the manual! The tail cone of the Rebel is not set up to take

the torsion loads of a cantilever tail. We'd like to hear your flying
reports...not your wife posting you are no longer "on-line".

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@adelphia.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Since there has been some recent discussion about Horizontal
Stabilizers, I thought that I would ask a question about
making the horizontal stabilizer all one piece (rather than
in two pieces). It would clean up the aerodynamics a bit by
eliminating the support struts and the block by the tail
wheel spring. However I suspect that the internal tail cone
would have to be beefed up and the stabilizer spars would
have to be tied together.

Has it been done before? What is entailed?

Gary Gustafson




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[Ken]

FWIW this question and answer seems odd to me.
The pivot bolt is AN4. The AN3 bolt is just to hold the safety wire. As
I understand the manual and MAM's bulletin, the bolt is supposed to be
tight and the 3/8" bushing is supposed to turn in the aluminum and the
only place that has been a problem is on the lower rudder bushing which
takes all the rudder cable tension. One does have access to the
elevator bolt by removing the elevator tip and you almost have to do
that anyway to remove or apply the safey wire on the bolt. MAM's
bulletin specifically cautions against leaving the bolt loose enough to
turn within the bushing and I agree with them. As advised by others
here I do periodically oil all the control pivot points. What possible
good would it do to put an access hole in the stabilizer (or the
elevator) of a Rebel??
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Yes Charlie I've seen it done before. If you are going to do it make sure
you add a doubler of .025 across the corner/access hole/etc. as that was the
downfall of the one I saw/had to work on. If you get your hinge bolt/bushing
set right wear won't be an issue anyhow. You want the bolt just tight enough
that it rotates inside the steel bushing. If you make it too tight then the
bushing rotates in the the alum instead.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Hi all

I am ready to do the final assembly of the horizontal stabilizers of my
Rebel. I am concerned about eventual wear in the 3/8 Dia. hole of the
hinge
brackets ST-25. To allow easy installation and remove of the elevator
hinge
brackets. I am thinking of installing 1" dia. hole plugs in the aft
corners
of the bottom skin of each stabilizer. This will provide wrench access to
check rotation of the AN-3 bolt and nut assembly. Does anyone see any
thing
wrong with this, are maybe have a better way?

Charlie E. 802R

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[Charlie Eubanks]

Wayne
That makes good sense. I will add the .025 doublers across the corners of
the stabilizer skins as you suggest. Thanks for all your help. Good luck
with your CD.
Charlie E.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Yes Charlie I've seen it done before. If you are going to do it make sure
you add a doubler of .025 across the corner/access hole/etc. as that was
the
downfall of the one I saw/had to work on. If you get your hinge
bolt/bushing
set right wear won't be an issue anyhow. You want the bolt just tight
enough
that it rotates inside the steel bushing. If you make it too tight then
the
bushing rotates in the the alum instead.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Hi all

I am ready to do the final assembly of the horizontal stabilizers of my
Rebel. I am concerned about eventual wear in the 3/8 Dia. hole of the
hinge
brackets ST-25. To allow easy installation and remove of the elevator
hinge
brackets. I am thinking of installing 1" dia. hole plugs in the aft
corners
of the bottom skin of each stabilizer. This will provide wrench access to
check rotation of the AN-3 bolt and nut assembly. Does anyone see any
thing
wrong with this, are maybe have a better way?

Charlie E. 802R




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

And we all do exactly what MAM's says here don't we?! LOL ;O)

This method works better with a fixed anchor nut inside the tube cap...vs
the floating F5000-4's but if you have a tight 1/4" hole in the cap to keep
the bolt from moving around then you will have no wobble and this keeps wear
to stuff you can easily replace (bushing or bolt). You are still safety
tieing the bolt so it' s not going anywhere.

The possible good, Ken, that Charlie is considering is so he can remove the
actual hinge brackets once they wear out from letting the bushing run in
them instead. I don't think he'll ever need to use them personally..but
better if he wants to do them now than later...provide he reinforces the
corners while doing so.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

FWIW this question and answer seems odd to me.
The pivot bolt is AN4. The AN3 bolt is just to hold the safety wire. As
I understand the manual and MAM's bulletin, the bolt is supposed to be
tight and the 3/8" bushing is supposed to turn in the aluminum and the
only place that has been a problem is on the lower rudder bushing which
takes all the rudder cable tension. One does have access to the
elevator bolt by removing the elevator tip and you almost have to do
that anyway to remove or apply the safey wire on the bolt. MAM's
bulletin specifically cautions against leaving the bolt loose enough to
turn within the bushing and I agree with them. As advised by others
here I do periodically oil all the control pivot points. What possible
good would it do to put an access hole in the stabilizer (or the
elevator) of a Rebel??
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Yes Charlie I've seen it done before. If you are going to do it make sure
you add a doubler of .025 across the corner/access hole/etc. as that was
the
downfall of the one I saw/had to work on. If you get your hinge
bolt/bushing
set right wear won't be an issue anyhow. You want the bolt just tight
enough
that it rotates inside the steel bushing. If you make it too tight then
the
bushing rotates in the the alum instead.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Hi all

I am ready to do the final assembly of the horizontal stabilizers of my
Rebel. I am concerned about eventual wear in the 3/8 Dia. hole of the
hinge
brackets ST-25. To allow easy installation and remove of the elevator
hinge
brackets. I am thinking of installing 1" dia. hole plugs in the aft
corners
of the bottom skin of each stabilizer. This will provide wrench access to
check rotation of the AN-3 bolt and nut assembly. Does anyone see any
thing
wrong with this, are maybe have a better way?

Charlie E. 802R

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I should add this idea only applies to the tail feathers. The flaperon bolts
get tightened completely as those bushings get to run inside bronze hat
bushings.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

And we all do exactly what MAM's says here don't we?! LOL ;O)

This method works better with a fixed anchor nut inside the tube cap...vs
the floating F5000-4's but if you have a tight 1/4" hole in the cap to
keep
the bolt from moving around then you will have no wobble and this keeps
wear
to stuff you can easily replace (bushing or bolt). You are still safety
tieing the bolt so it' s not going anywhere.

The possible good, Ken, that Charlie is considering is so he can remove
the
actual hinge brackets once they wear out from letting the bushing run in
them instead. I don't think he'll ever need to use them personally..but
better if he wants to do them now than later...provide he reinforces the
corners while doing so.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

FWIW this question and answer seems odd to me.
The pivot bolt is AN4. The AN3 bolt is just to hold the safety wire. As
I understand the manual and MAM's bulletin, the bolt is supposed to be
tight and the 3/8" bushing is supposed to turn in the aluminum and the
only place that has been a problem is on the lower rudder bushing which
takes all the rudder cable tension. One does have access to the
elevator bolt by removing the elevator tip and you almost have to do
that anyway to remove or apply the safey wire on the bolt. MAM's
bulletin specifically cautions against leaving the bolt loose enough to
turn within the bushing and I agree with them. As advised by others
here I do periodically oil all the control pivot points. What possible
good would it do to put an access hole in the stabilizer (or the
elevator) of a Rebel??
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Yes Charlie I've seen it done before. If you are going to do it make sure
you add a doubler of .025 across the corner/access hole/etc. as that was
the
downfall of the one I saw/had to work on. If you get your hinge
bolt/bushing
set right wear won't be an issue anyhow. You want the bolt just tight
enough
that it rotates inside the steel bushing. If you make it too tight then
the
bushing rotates in the the alum instead.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

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[Ken]

OK I understand better. Think I still like MAM's method. Having the
bolt not tight would bother me as a high inspection item checking for
movement or safety wire chafing. No bolt movement is more reassuring to
me than wondering how much is too much and I'd expect some wobble and
looseness in that bolt over time if it is not torqued tight. The play
in the stabilizer strut bolts (holes reamed undersize) already bothers
me and I am thinking of replacing those AN3 (actually AN173 precision
bolts) with 5mm drill rod in a light interference fit.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

And we all do exactly what MAM's says here don't we?! LOL ;O)

This method works better with a fixed anchor nut inside the tube cap...vs
the floating F5000-4's but if you have a tight 1/4" hole in the cap to keep
the bolt from moving around then you will have no wobble and this keeps wear
to stuff you can easily replace (bushing or bolt). You are still safety
tieing the bolt so it' s not going anywhere.

The possible good, Ken, that Charlie is considering is so he can remove the
actual hinge brackets once they wear out from letting the bushing run in
them instead. I don't think he'll ever need to use them personally..but
better if he wants to do them now than later...provide he reinforces the
corners while doing so.

Wayne

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[rognal]

Question: If the Rebel rudder/elevator pivot bolts/bushings/brackets are
high wear areas, and if these bolts/bushings do not need to be "too tight",
why not replace the steel bushing(s) with a synthetic (?) bushing such as
these:

http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P116.html Plain sleeve
bearing/machined acetron/non-metallic/self-lubricating,

Or http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P118.html Plain sleeve
bearing/non-metallic/teflon

Or something similiar ie; nylon, delrin, etc.

I have no real familiarity with the properties of any of this material, but
it seems I've seen most of it described as having high wear and self
lubricating properties.

Under 'not too tight' conditions could these synthetic bushings be suitable
as a replacement bushing with no need for additional lubrication.

Thanks for any comments.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




On 11/27/2006 6:07 AM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Yes Charlie I've seen it done before. If you are going to do it make sure
-> you add a doubler of .025 across the corner/access hole/etc. as that was
the
-> downfall of the one I saw/had to work on. If you get your hinge
bolt/bushing
-> set right wear won't be an issue anyhow. You want the bolt just tight
enough
-> that it rotates inside the steel bushing. If you make it too tight then the
-> bushing rotates in the the alum instead.
->
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:53 AM
-> Subject: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer
->
->
-> > Hi all
-> >
-> > I am ready to do the final assembly of the horizontal stabilizers of my
-> > Rebel. I am concerned about eventual wear in the 3/8 Dia. hole of the
-> > hinge
-> > brackets ST-25. To allow easy installation and remove of the elevator
-> > hinge
-> > brackets. I am thinking of installing 1" dia. hole plugs in the aft
-> > corners
-> > of the bottom skin of each stabilizer. This will provide wrench access to
-> > check rotation of the AN-3 bolt and nut assembly. Does anyone see any
-> > thing
-> > wrong with this, are maybe have a better way?
-> >
-> > Charlie E. 802R
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->





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[Ken]

The thing is that the bolt itself has little ability to resist side
loading or wobble. It is the 3/8 steel bushing tight against the spar
cap that provides most of the resistance to side to side movement of the
bolt. I would not be comfortable simply replacing the steel AIL-26
sleeve with a plastic part.

The other proposal made from time to time is to bush the holes that the
AIL-26 goes into. Except for the bottom of the rudder, I'd guess that
the 3/8" id x 1/2" od flanged bushings would be fine. It does not sound
like this is really a high wear area though and my aluminum brackets
don't have a lot of extra metal there to drill out. The next question
would be - can you actually source the bushings without buying a
thousand of them, or do you have a lathe to make your own? The flange
will take up a bit of space if the control surface is a tight fit. Wayne
might comment, but I consider most of those plastics with various trade
names like acetal, acetron, etc. to be equivalent to delrin. Anyway I
built to the plans, assembled them with grease, and will bush them later
if they wear.

I did put a brass bushing at the bottom of the rudder though. That
lower bushing does have higher loading than the others and it does
collect a lot more dirt ,oil, and water, than the others. Maybe it
wouldn't collect the dirt if it was plastic and dry instead of oiled but
in my mind the loading might be a bit high for plastic??

Ken

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:

Question: If the Rebel rudder/elevator pivot bolts/bushings/brackets are
high wear areas, and if these bolts/bushings do not need to be "too tight",
why not replace the steel bushing(s) with a synthetic (?) bushing such as
these:

http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P116.html Plain sleeve
bearing/machined acetron/non-metallic/self-lubricating,

Or http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P118.html Plain sleeve
bearing/non-metallic/teflon

Or something similiar ie; nylon, delrin, etc.

I have no real familiarity with the properties of any of this material, but
it seems I've seen most of it described as having high wear and self
lubricating properties.

Under 'not too tight' conditions could these synthetic bushings be suitable
as a replacement bushing with no need for additional lubrication.

Thanks for any comments.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 08:11 PM 11/29/2006 -0900, you wrote:

Question: If the Rebel rudder/elevator pivot bolts/bushings/brackets are
high wear areas, and if these bolts/bushings do not need to be "too tight",
why not replace the steel bushing(s) with a synthetic (?) bushing such as
these:

http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P116.html Plain sleeve
bearing/machined acetron/non-metallic/self-lubricating,

Or http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P118.html Plain sleeve
bearing/non-metallic/teflon

Or something similiar ie; nylon, delrin, etc.

I have no real familiarity with the properties of any of this material, but
it seems I've seen most of it described as having high wear and self
lubricating properties.

Under 'not too tight' conditions could these synthetic bushings be suitable
as a replacement bushing with no need for additional lubrication.

Thanks for any comments.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

Hi Roger I don't know about using any of the fancy plastics. If I find
eccessive wear I plan to use what I call an oilite bushing. These guys call
it a plain sleeve bearing.
http://www.qbcbearings.com/B610/HTML/B610P085_1.html
I haven't checked if there's enough edge clearance in the bracket to allow
it to be reamed larger or not. If the bracket isn't big enough I guess the
only solution is replacement. The only place I'm finding any wear so far is
the lower rudder bracket. I needed to bush my gear leg pivots after a
couple hundred hours and that's worked out very well.
Drew



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[Drew Dalgleish]

Hi Ken I was able to buy bushings in London at CBS by the each for next to
nothing. I've been told that TSC stores sell them as well.

At 08:29 AM 11/30/2006 -0500, you wrote:

The thing is that the bolt itself has little ability to resist side
loading or wobble. It is the 3/8 steel bushing tight against the spar
cap that provides most of the resistance to side to side movement of the
bolt. I would not be comfortable simply replacing the steel AIL-26
sleeve with a plastic part.

The other proposal made from time to time is to bush the holes that the
AIL-26 goes into. Except for the bottom of the rudder, I'd guess that
the 3/8" id x 1/2" od flanged bushings would be fine. It does not sound
like this is really a high wear area though and my aluminum brackets
don't have a lot of extra metal there to drill out. The next question
would be - can you actually source the bushings without buying a
thousand of them, or do you have a lathe to make your own? The flange
will take up a bit of space if the control surface is a tight fit. Wayne
might comment, but I consider most of those plastics with various trade
names like acetal, acetron, etc. to be equivalent to delrin. Anyway I
built to the plans, assembled them with grease, and will bush them later
if they wear.

I did put a brass bushing at the bottom of the rudder though. That
lower bushing does have higher loading than the others and it does
collect a lot more dirt ,oil, and water, than the others. Maybe it
wouldn't collect the dirt if it was plastic and dry instead of oiled but
in my mind the loading might be a bit high for plastic??

Ken

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:

Question: If the Rebel rudder/elevator pivot bolts/bushings/brackets are
high wear areas, and if these bolts/bushings do not need to be "too tight",
why not replace the steel bushing(s) with a synthetic (?) bushing such as
these:

http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P116.html Plain sleeve
bearing/machined acetron/non-metallic/self-lubricating,

Or http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P118.html Plain sleeve
bearing/non-metallic/teflon

Or something similiar ie; nylon, delrin, etc.

I have no real familiarity with the properties of any of this material, but
it seems I've seen most of it described as having high wear and self
lubricating properties.

Under 'not too tight' conditions could these synthetic bushings be suitable
as a replacement bushing with no need for additional lubrication.

Thanks for any comments.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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Drew



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[Jones, Michael]

Ken

Believe on builder from stoney creek put brass bushings in all locations on
tail feathers, might have even been approve by Murphy but it would have to
be confirmed to be sure

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:30 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

The thing is that the bolt itself has little ability to resist side
loading or wobble. It is the 3/8 steel bushing tight against the spar
cap that provides most of the resistance to side to side movement of the
bolt. I would not be comfortable simply replacing the steel AIL-26
sleeve with a plastic part.

The other proposal made from time to time is to bush the holes that the
AIL-26 goes into. Except for the bottom of the rudder, I'd guess that
the 3/8" id x 1/2" od flanged bushings would be fine. It does not sound
like this is really a high wear area though and my aluminum brackets
don't have a lot of extra metal there to drill out. The next question
would be - can you actually source the bushings without buying a
thousand of them, or do you have a lathe to make your own? The flange
will take up a bit of space if the control surface is a tight fit. Wayne
might comment, but I consider most of those plastics with various trade
names like acetal, acetron, etc. to be equivalent to delrin. Anyway I
built to the plans, assembled them with grease, and will bush them later
if they wear.

I did put a brass bushing at the bottom of the rudder though. That
lower bushing does have higher loading than the others and it does
collect a lot more dirt ,oil, and water, than the others. Maybe it
wouldn't collect the dirt if it was plastic and dry instead of oiled but
in my mind the loading might be a bit high for plastic??

Ken

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:

Question: If the Rebel rudder/elevator pivot bolts/bushings/brackets are
high wear areas, and if these bolts/bushings do not need to be "too tight",
why not replace the steel bushing(s) with a synthetic (?) bushing such as
these:

http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P116.html Plain sleeve
bearing/machined acetron/non-metallic/self-lubricating,

Or http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P118.html Plain sleeve
bearing/non-metallic/teflon

Or something similiar ie; nylon, delrin, etc.

I have no real familiarity with the properties of any of this material, but
it seems I've seen most of it described as having high wear and self
lubricating properties.

Under 'not too tight' conditions could these synthetic bushings be suitable
as a replacement bushing with no need for additional lubrication.

Thanks for any comments.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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