The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360 vibration
loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel going into the
primer and out of the primer and again between the motormount and the
cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the gascolator.
The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was enough length to
re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to be to replace the
line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator. The leak was so slow
that I never noticed it, but after a couple of weeks without flying, 30
gallons of gas is missing from one wing tank and has gone through the
asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues the outcome could've been much
worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

In about 1,000 hours of flying 172s I can't remember ever using the primer.
Would it be unreasonable not to include one in a Rebel? It seems like an
expensive and potentially dangerous piece of equipment.

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 00:07:20 -0500

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360 vibration
loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel going into the
primer and out of the primer and again between the motormount and the
cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the gascolator.
The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was enough length to
re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to be to replace the
line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator. The leak was so slow
that I never noticed it, but after a couple of weeks without flying, 30
gallons of gas is missing from one wing tank and has gone through the
asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues the outcome could've been much
worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

Be more dangerous up here pumping a throttle on a cold day and hoping the
engine fires. Bob White was having a hard time getting his O-360 fired up on
the last trip to his hunt camp in Temagami late last week. He only has one
cylinder priming and he wants all 4 hooked up for spring. I'd never get mine
running in the winter, even after preheat, if it wasn't for the primer. Not
that you'll have that problem unless you head for the big hills to the north
in your state where they actually do use skis.

Speaking of skis...mine are on & ready to go. Could have even flown them
today if I could have moved and amphib and a boat out of the way. Did have a
Super Cub drop on on straight skis this afternoon!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

In about 1,000 hours of flying 172s I can't remember ever using the
primer.
Would it be unreasonable not to include one in a Rebel? It seems like an
expensive and potentially dangerous piece of equipment.

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 00:07:20 -0500

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360 vibration
loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel going into the
primer and out of the primer and again between the motormount and the
cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the gascolator.
The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was enough length to
re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to be to replace the
line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator. The leak was so slow
that I never noticed it, but after a couple of weeks without flying, 30
gallons of gas is missing from one wing tank and has gone through the
asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues the outcome could've been much
worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

It's true Wayne, I've never tried to start one in extreme cold, so I didn't
think of that. I guess I better put one in if I intend to be a real bush
pilot some day.

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 00:34:23 -0500

Be more dangerous up here pumping a throttle on a cold day and hoping the
engine fires. Bob White was having a hard time getting his O-360 fired up
on
the last trip to his hunt camp in Temagami late last week. He only has one
cylinder priming and he wants all 4 hooked up for spring. I'd never get
mine
running in the winter, even after preheat, if it wasn't for the primer. Not
that you'll have that problem unless you head for the big hills to the
north
in your state where they actually do use skis.

Speaking of skis...mine are on & ready to go. Could have even flown them
today if I could have moved and amphib and a boat out of the way. Did have
a
Super Cub drop on on straight skis this afternoon!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

In about 1,000 hours of flying 172s I can't remember ever using the
primer.
Would it be unreasonable not to include one in a Rebel? It seems like an
expensive and potentially dangerous piece of equipment.

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 00:07:20 -0500

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360 vibration
loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel going into the
primer and out of the primer and again between the motormount and the
cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

gascolator.
to
slow
30

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

Wayne:

I had a loop at the engine transition, but not elsewhere. Guess I'd
better get some new line and ferrules. I'll fix it after winter layup.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: November 5, 2006 12:07 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360 vibration
loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel going into the
primer and out of the primer and again between the motormount and the
cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the gascolator.

The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was enough length to

re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to be to replace the
line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator. The leak was so slow

that I never noticed it, but after a couple of weeks without flying, 30

gallons of gas is missing from one wing tank and has gone through the
asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues the outcome could've been much
worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

Hi Wayne, I just finished hooking up my gas lines yesterday - but didn't put
any loops in the system. I left some slack between the two parts of the
motor mount.
Are you saying that I really should have a loop to absorb all vibration?

Cheers
Jim
Rebel333

On 11/5/2006 12:07 AM, "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360 vibration
loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel going into the
primer and out of the primer and again between the motormount and the
cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the gascolator.
The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was enough length to
re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to be to replace the
line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator. The leak was so slow
that I never noticed it, but after a couple of weeks without flying, 30
gallons of gas is missing from one wing tank and has gone through the
asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues the outcome could've been much
worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

Hi Jim !

I think Wayne was referring to the primer lines - they're
small diameter, often copper, and being small, more sensitive
to vibration than the larger aluminum fuel lines. Imagine
you have some rubber sections to help with vibration ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 05 November 2006 08:25 am, Jim Cole wrote:

Hi Wayne, I just finished hooking up my gas lines yesterday - but didn't put
any loops in the system. I left some slack between the two parts of the
motor mount.
Are you saying that I really should have a loop to absorb all vibration?

Cheers
Jim
Rebel333

On 11/5/2006 12:07 AM, "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360 vibration
loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel going into the
primer and out of the primer and again between the motormount and the
cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the gascolator.
The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was enough length to
re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to be to replace the
line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator. The leak was so slow
that I never noticed it, but after a couple of weeks without flying, 30
gallons of gas is missing from one wing tank and has gone through the
asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues the outcome could've been much
worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

Hi Al !

Good thing you found it on the ground ! FWIW, I was taught
a loooong time ago to always turn the fuel valves off when leaving
the aircraft. That would have saved your floor - but the main reason
was that fuel evaporates from the carb bowl over time .. If the
valve is open, more fuel will run in to replace it, and eventually
you end up with some gooey residue on the float, needle, and in the
passages. Of course, that was long ago, when avgas wasn't as
good as it is now ..... but I still have the habit. I guess
another possible reason was to prevent a runaway if you had a
bad mag ground, and someone moved the prop, and it started.
I always turn the fuel off before hand propping, just in case.

Just some old thoughts - might save someone some grief someday.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 04 November 2006 11:51 pm, Alan Hepburn wrote:

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the gascolator.
The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was enough length to
re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to be to replace the
line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator. The leak was so slow
that I never noticed it, but after a couple of weeks without flying, 30
gallons of gas is missing from one wing tank and has gone through the
asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues the outcome could've been much
worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

"Winter lay up"! I did that last year...can't handle 8 months without flying
again so I'm ready to go on wheel/skis. I do know you have another "winter"
machine though if I'm not mistaken. So do I...just too lazy to do the extra
work (to get in and out of hangar) to use my J3 as my ski plane that would
save the work of doing the float change over on the Rebel.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:36 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

Wayne:

I had a loop at the engine transition, but not elsewhere. Guess I'd
better get some new line and ferrules. I'll fix it after winter layup.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: November 5, 2006 12:07 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360 vibration
loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel going into the
primer and out of the primer and again between the motormount and the
cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the gascolator.

The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was enough length to

re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to be to replace the
line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator. The leak was so slow

that I never noticed it, but after a couple of weeks without flying, 30

gallons of gas is missing from one wing tank and has gone through the
asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues the outcome could've been much
worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 am**

NO were are talking the little 1/8" lines for the primer that are
brass/copper. The rubber fuel lines on your 912S will be fine.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

Hi Wayne, I just finished hooking up my gas lines yesterday - but didn't
put
any loops in the system. I left some slack between the two parts of the
motor mount.
Are you saying that I really should have a loop to absorb all vibration?

Cheers
Jim
Rebel333

On 11/5/2006 12:07 AM, "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360 vibration
loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel going into the
primer and out of the primer and again between the motormount and the
cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the gascolator.
The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was enough length to
re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to be to replace the
line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator. The leak was so slow
that I never noticed it, but after a couple of weeks without flying, 30
gallons of gas is missing from one wing tank and has gone through the
asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues the outcome could've been much
worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:26 am**

Talking to Jack Wiebe, he had taken the trouble to put stainless lines
in the firewall side, with transitions going through the bulkhead. I
don't think I'll go to that trouble, but loops make a lot of sense. I
did have a loop at the engine transition - that one's obvious, given the
amount the engine can move - maybe two loops would be better. Bob: The
trouble with sitching off the fuel is I'd have found it in the air,
perhaps by the gas pissing onto the exhaust pipe.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: November 5, 2006 12:59 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

NO were are talking the little 1/8" lines for the primer that are
brass/copper. The rubber fuel lines on your 912S will be fine.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

Hi Wayne, I just finished hooking up my gas lines yesterday - but
didn't
put
any loops in the system. I left some slack between the two parts of

the

motor mount.
Are you saying that I really should have a loop to absorb all

vibration?

Cheers
Jim
Rebel333

On 11/5/2006 12:07 AM, "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
wrote:

Glad you caught it on the ground Al ! Yes you should have 360
vibration loops everywhere. above the gascolator, under the panel
going into the primer and out of the primer and again between the
motormount and the cylinders themselves.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@xplornet.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

I found my primer line fractured at the point it leaves the
gascolator. The line wasn't particularly tight, in fact there was
enough length to re-terminate it, However, the fix would appear to
be to replace the line, and have a 360* loop above the gascolator.
The leak was so slow that I never noticed it, but after a couple of
weeks without flying, 30 gallons of gas is missing from one wing
tank and has gone through the asphalt on my hangar floor. I gues
the outcome could've been much worse.

Al Hepburn
Elite C-FGAH

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:26 am**

Alan,

Have you considered using a remotely controlled electric primer pump,
instead of a manual primer, which would avoid having more fuel plumbing
in the cockpit?

Ron

Alan Hepburn wrote:

Talking to Jack Wiebe, he had taken the trouble to put stainless lines
in the firewall side, with transitions going through the bulkhead. I
don't think I'll go to that trouble, but loops make a lot of sense. I
did have a loop at the engine transition - that one's obvious, given the
amount the engine can move - maybe two loops would be better. Bob: The
trouble with sitching off the fuel is I'd have found it in the air,
perhaps by the gas pissing onto the exhaust pipe.

Al

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:26 am**

That's a thought, but the manual system is already installed, so I guess
I'll just put some loops in the lines and res-install them. I'm not
sure whyy I shouldn't go with stainless right back to the pump though.
Any thoughts? Do compression fittings work well with stainless, or do
you have to silver solder ferrules on? For some reason, I had no
trouble silver soldering the lines that came with the engine, so I guess
the type of steel lines they supply must be OK for solder.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ron Shannon
Sent: November 6, 2006 11:16 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fractured primer line

Alan,

Have you considered using a remotely controlled electric primer pump,
instead of a manual primer, which would avoid having more fuel plumbing
in the cockpit?

Ron

Alan Hepburn wrote:

Talking to Jack Wiebe, he had taken the trouble to put stainless lines

in the firewall side, with transitions going through the bulkhead. I
don't think I'll go to that trouble, but loops make a lot of sense. I

did have a loop at the engine transition - that one's obvious, given
the amount the engine can move - maybe two loops would be better.
Bob: The trouble with sitching off the fuel is I'd have found it in
the air, perhaps by the gas pissing onto the exhaust pipe.

Al

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