The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 am**

Thanks Roger, that's what I was thinking of doing but it's always nice to
know someone else tried it and it worked out okay.

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: <rognal@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:22 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: Rebel wing fairing box

Hi Allen,

...can (I) make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings?
I did. The rear wing attach brackets were installed in both the wing and
the fuselage so I just took a measurement from the bolt hole center to the
root rib, and the bolt hole center to the fuselage to get the mounted
distance between the two. I would not do this if the wing attach brackets
had not been installed.

Then I measured the distance from the rear wing attach bracket on the wing
to the trailing edge of the flaperon to determine the position for the
trailing edge of the wing fairing box on the fuselage.

This worked for me. Hope this helps,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

On 10/19/2006 2:12 PM, apoulsen@comcast.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi all,
->
-> I won't be able to mount my wings till I find another work space so I'm
trying to do some things out of order to keep making progress.
->
-> Does anyone know if the distance from fus to wing is consistent enough
that I can make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings?
If
so, do you have the measurement? Would it be safe to install them by
taking
measurements off my wings/airlerons instead of actually having them
mounted
to align the trailing edge?
->
-> All opinions welcome.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Allen Poulsen
-> 786R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 am**

Allen,
FWIW, I am going to wait. I am not going to install the rear attach brackets
in the fuse until I can get the wings on and align everything, set incidence
and make sure there is no wing sweep. Once I rivet the attach brackets I
will make the fairing boxes. For now I am not going to rivet that area of
the fuselage where the fairing box goes.
The way I plan to locate the attach brackets inside the sandwiched bulkhead
is a bit tricky. I measured for the location like the manual says in order
to get them close, but I only drilled 2 of the #30 holes. After the bulkhead
is riveted into the fuselage I can use those 2 holes to cleco the brackets
in place while I mount the wings. I will make a template from scrap of the
hole pattern on the brackets which will be clecoed on the outside of of the
bulkhead with the bracket in place. I should then be able to perfectly align
the wings with a digital level and move the brackets accordingly. The 2
original #30 holes can be moved slightly with a 1/8 round file, and with the
template I can drill the remaining holes in the right place. Then I can make
the fairing boxes fit perfectly. That's my plan, but it sounds like it
worked great for Roger to do everything beforehand. I just don't trust the
symmetry of my fuselage enough to align the wing incidence and sweep by
measuring from the cabin roof alone. You are basically saying the roof is
perfectly level with no twist, and aligned perfectly with the fuselage
centerline. Considering it is built in space with no jig, and based on a lot
of laser sightings and measurements with a digital level, I know mine aint!
Jesse

From: rognal@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: Rebel wing fairing box
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:22:50 -0800

Hi Allen,

...can (I) make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings?
I did. The rear wing attach brackets were installed in both the wing and
the fuselage so I just took a measurement from the bolt hole center to the
root rib, and the bolt hole center to the fuselage to get the mounted
distance between the two. I would not do this if the wing attach brackets
had not been installed.

Then I measured the distance from the rear wing attach bracket on the wing
to the trailing edge of the flaperon to determine the position for the
trailing edge of the wing fairing box on the fuselage.

This worked for me. Hope this helps,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

On 10/19/2006 2:12 PM, apoulsen@comcast.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi all,
->
-> I won't be able to mount my wings till I find another work space so I'm
trying to do some things out of order to keep making progress.
->
-> Does anyone know if the distance from fus to wing is consistent enough
that I can make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings? If
so, do you have the measurement? Would it be safe to install them by taking
measurements off my wings/airlerons instead of actually having them mounted
to align the trailing edge?
->
-> All opinions welcome.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Allen Poulsen
-> 786R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 am**

I thought about doing the same thing but instead I mounted the wings and tested then for placement to the flaps. I find that to be in alignment with the flaps that the trailing edge of each fairing box would be about 3/4 of an inch lower than the top of the adjacent fuselage. The front top edge is even with the fuselage. Looking at pictures on various Rebel websites, I find two pictures where the top edge of the fairing box is even with the top of the fuselage and two where the trailing edge is 3/4 of an inch lower as mine would be if I mounted them to align with the trailing edge of the flaps. (Maybe I do not have the linkages of my flaps adjusted correctly but I think I do) If that is the case which method is correct - trailing edge of the fairing even with the fuselage or the trailing edge down 3/4 of an inch? The answer to this question will determine the answer to your question. So which way is correct? I have not rivited my fairings yet.

Gary Gustafsin - 242R

---- rognal@dcsol.com wrote:

Hi Allen,

...can (I) make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings?
I did. The rear wing attach brackets were installed in both the wing and
the fuselage so I just took a measurement from the bolt hole center to the
root rib, and the bolt hole center to the fuselage to get the mounted
distance between the two. I would not do this if the wing attach brackets
had not been installed.

Then I measured the distance from the rear wing attach bracket on the wing
to the trailing edge of the flaperon to determine the position for the
trailing edge of the wing fairing box on the fuselage.

This worked for me. Hope this helps,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

On 10/19/2006 2:12 PM, apoulsen@comcast.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi all,
->
-> I won't be able to mount my wings till I find another work space so I'm
trying to do some things out of order to keep making progress.
->
-> Does anyone know if the distance from fus to wing is consistent enough
that I can make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings? If
so, do you have the measurement? Would it be safe to install them by taking
measurements off my wings/airlerons instead of actually having them mounted
to align the trailing edge?
->
-> All opinions welcome.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Allen Poulsen
-> 786R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 am**

Honestly in retrospect I'd just put the box even with the top of the
fuselage where it is easiest.
It will likely never align with the flaperons and it is difficult to
notice anyway. Even if the stick is perfectly centered, how much do you
let them droop on the ground so that they are zero in flight. If you run
reflex in flight they definately won't align. If you do align them on
the ground they will be way off in flight. There would probably be less
descrepancy with electric actuation but I've actually come to like the
cable design.
Ken

gargus@adelphia.net wrote:

I thought about doing the same thing but instead I mounted the wings and tested then for placement to the flaps. I find that to be in alignment with the flaps that the trailing edge of each fairing box would be about 3/4 of an inch lower than the top of the adjacent fuselage. The front top edge is even with the fuselage. Looking at pictures on various Rebel websites, I find two pictures where the top edge of the fairing box is even with the top of the fuselage and two where the trailing edge is 3/4 of an inch lower as mine would be if I mounted them to align with the trailing edge of the flaps. (Maybe I do not have the linkages of my flaps adjusted correctly but I think I do) If that is the case which method is correct - trailing edge of the fairing even with the fuselage or the trailing edge down 3/4 of an inch? The answer to this question will determine the answer to your question. So which way is correct? I have not rivited my fairings yet.

Gary Gustafsin - 242R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 am**

Hi Gary !

I'm with Ken ! The Rebel was designed to have the fairing
box even with the top of the fuselage - and this should be even
with the back of the flapperons. Sounds like you might have to
adjust your linkages a bit. If you have more than about 120 hp,
be sure to add a second negative hole position for cruise - that is,
minus 6 degrees and minus 12 degrees. This will give you a faster
cruise and a smoother ride in turbulence. You will still have
3 positive flapperon angles ... + 6 degrees, + 12 degrees, and
+ 18 degrees. The Rebel flapperons are in neutral when aligned
with the box.

As a matter of fact, the Elite was designed the same way -
except - when the flaps are even with the box on the Elite, they
are actually in a 5 degree negative position. This gives a faster
cruise -- since there's no effective use of negative flapperon
on an Elite (separate flaps ...). Some Elite builders have chosen
to mount the fairing box lower at the rear on the fuselage to have
the flaps at zero instead of negative - their choice .....
but I think it doesn't look as nice, and it's certainly slower !

--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 20 October 2006 06:20 am, gargus@adelphia.net wrote:

I thought about doing the same thing but instead I mounted the wings and

tested then for placement to the flaps. I find that to be in alignment with
the flaps that the trailing edge of each fairing box would be about 3/4 of an
inch lower than the top of the adjacent fuselage. The front top edge is even
with the fuselage. Looking at pictures on various Rebel websites, I find two
pictures where the top edge of the fairing box is even with the top of the
fuselage and two where the trailing edge is 3/4 of an inch lower as mine
would be if I mounted them to align with the trailing edge of the flaps.
(Maybe I do not have the linkages of my flaps adjusted correctly but I think
I do) If that is the case which method is correct - trailing edge of the
fairing even with the fuselage or the trailing edge down 3/4 of an inch? The
answer to this question will determine the answer to your question. So which
way is correct? I have not rivited my fairings yet.

Gary Gustafsin - 242R

---- rognal@dcsol.com wrote:
Hi Allen,

...can (I) make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings?
I did. The rear wing attach brackets were installed in both the wing and
the fuselage so I just took a measurement from the bolt hole center to the
root rib, and the bolt hole center to the fuselage to get the mounted
distance between the two. I would not do this if the wing attach brackets
had not been installed.

Then I measured the distance from the rear wing attach bracket on the wing
to the trailing edge of the flaperon to determine the position for the
trailing edge of the wing fairing box on the fuselage.

This worked for me. Hope this helps,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

On 10/19/2006 2:12 PM, apoulsen@comcast.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi all,
->
-> I won't be able to mount my wings till I find another work space so I'm
trying to do some things out of order to keep making progress.
->
-> Does anyone know if the distance from fus to wing is consistent enough
that I can make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings?

If

so, do you have the measurement? Would it be safe to install them by

taking

measurements off my wings/airlerons instead of actually having them

mounted

to align the trailing edge?
->
-> All opinions welcome.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Allen Poulsen
-> 786R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 am**

Hi Gary
Don't forget to allow distance for the flaperon hinge or u will be making
two like me and alot of others.

Steve W. 637R

_________________________________________________________________
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the creative potential of today's youth? Check out Mobile Jam Fest for your
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 am**

Jesse,

A swept wing Rebel! There's a thought....

I figured that if I had to make any adjusments I would do it when I drill
out the holes for the mounting bolts.

Did anyone else have any trouble with wing alignment using the procedure in
the manual??

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] RE: Rebel wing fairing box

Allen,
FWIW, I am going to wait. I am not going to install the rear attach
brackets
in the fuse until I can get the wings on and align everything, set
incidence
and make sure there is no wing sweep. Once I rivet the attach brackets I
will make the fairing boxes. For now I am not going to rivet that area of
the fuselage where the fairing box goes.
The way I plan to locate the attach brackets inside the sandwiched
bulkhead
is a bit tricky. I measured for the location like the manual says in order
to get them close, but I only drilled 2 of the #30 holes. After the
bulkhead
is riveted into the fuselage I can use those 2 holes to cleco the brackets
in place while I mount the wings. I will make a template from scrap of the
hole pattern on the brackets which will be clecoed on the outside of of
the
bulkhead with the bracket in place. I should then be able to perfectly
align
the wings with a digital level and move the brackets accordingly. The 2
original #30 holes can be moved slightly with a 1/8 round file, and with
the
template I can drill the remaining holes in the right place. Then I can
make
the fairing boxes fit perfectly. That's my plan, but it sounds like it
worked great for Roger to do everything beforehand. I just don't trust the
symmetry of my fuselage enough to align the wing incidence and sweep by
measuring from the cabin roof alone. You are basically saying the roof is
perfectly level with no twist, and aligned perfectly with the fuselage
centerline. Considering it is built in space with no jig, and based on a
lot
of laser sightings and measurements with a digital level, I know mine
aint!
Jesse

From: rognal@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: Rebel wing fairing box
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:22:50 -0800

Hi Allen,

...can (I) make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings?
I did. The rear wing attach brackets were installed in both the wing and
the fuselage so I just took a measurement from the bolt hole center to the
root rib, and the bolt hole center to the fuselage to get the mounted
distance between the two. I would not do this if the wing attach brackets
had not been installed.

Then I measured the distance from the rear wing attach bracket on the wing
to the trailing edge of the flaperon to determine the position for the
trailing edge of the wing fairing box on the fuselage.

This worked for me. Hope this helps,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

On 10/19/2006 2:12 PM, apoulsen@comcast.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi all,
->
-> I won't be able to mount my wings till I find another work space so I'm
trying to do some things out of order to keep making progress.
->
-> Does anyone know if the distance from fus to wing is consistent enough
that I can make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings?
If
so, do you have the measurement? Would it be safe to install them by
taking
measurements off my wings/airlerons instead of actually having them
mounted
to align the trailing edge?
->
-> All opinions welcome.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Allen Poulsen
-> 786R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 am**

Thanks. Will be on the lookout

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of steve
whitenect
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 12:30 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] RE: Rebel wing fairing box

Hi Gary
Don't forget to allow distance for the flaperon hinge or u will be making
two like me and alot of others.

Steve W. 637R

_________________________________________________________________
Ready for the world's first international mobile film festival celebrating
the creative potential of today's youth? Check out Mobile Jam Fest for your
a chance to WIN $10,000! www.mobilejamfest.com

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:17 am**

I had no trouble with the book method. I did draw a couple of the holes
a wee bit with a file before reaming.
I used a 2.5 thou undersize reamer on the AN6. One thou undersize on
the AN-4 size was still a bit sloppy so I used precision AN174 bolts
there which are larger than AN-4.
Ken

apoulsen wrote:

Jesse,

A swept wing Rebel! There's a thought....

I figured that if I had to make any adjusments I would do it when I drill
out the holes for the mounting bolts.

Did anyone else have any trouble with wing alignment using the procedure in
the manual??

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] RE: Rebel wing fairing box

Allen,
FWIW, I am going to wait. I am not going to install the rear attach
brackets
in the fuse until I can get the wings on and align everything, set
incidence
and make sure there is no wing sweep. Once I rivet the attach brackets I
will make the fairing boxes. For now I am not going to rivet that area of
the fuselage where the fairing box goes.
The way I plan to locate the attach brackets inside the sandwiched
bulkhead
is a bit tricky. I measured for the location like the manual says in order
to get them close, but I only drilled 2 of the #30 holes. After the
bulkhead
is riveted into the fuselage I can use those 2 holes to cleco the brackets
in place while I mount the wings. I will make a template from scrap of the
hole pattern on the brackets which will be clecoed on the outside of of
the
bulkhead with the bracket in place. I should then be able to perfectly
align
the wings with a digital level and move the brackets accordingly. The 2
original #30 holes can be moved slightly with a 1/8 round file, and with
the
template I can drill the remaining holes in the right place. Then I can
make
the fairing boxes fit perfectly. That's my plan, but it sounds like it
worked great for Roger to do everything beforehand. I just don't trust the
symmetry of my fuselage enough to align the wing incidence and sweep by
measuring from the cabin roof alone. You are basically saying the roof is
perfectly level with no twist, and aligned perfectly with the fuselage
centerline. Considering it is built in space with no jig, and based on a
lot
of laser sightings and measurements with a digital level, I know mine
aint!
Jesse

From: rognal@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: Rebel wing fairing box
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:22:50 -0800

Hi Allen,

I did. The rear wing attach brackets were installed in both the wing and
the fuselage so I just took a measurement from the bolt hole center to the
root rib, and the bolt hole center to the fuselage to get the mounted
distance between the two. I would not do this if the wing attach brackets
had not been installed.

Then I measured the distance from the rear wing attach bracket on the wing
to the trailing edge of the flaperon to determine the position for the
trailing edge of the wing fairing box on the fuselage.

This worked for me. Hope this helps,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA

On 10/19/2006 2:12 PM, apoulsen@comcast.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi all,
->
-> I won't be able to mount my wings till I find another work space so I'm
trying to do some things out of order to keep making progress.
->
-> Does anyone know if the distance from fus to wing is consistent enough
that I can make the wing fairing boxes without having mounted the wings?
If
so, do you have the measurement? Would it be safe to install them by
taking
measurements off my wings/airlerons instead of actually having them
mounted
to align the trailing edge?
->
-> All opinions welcome.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Allen Poulsen
-> 786R

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