The Murphy Builders Site

I had some excellent suggestions on Pro-Sealing my tanks, including the
suggestion that I buy new Pro-Seal. I bought a couple of quarts from
Van's Aircraft here in Portland and it is dated 12/99.

The problem is that the gunk is still the same sticky consistency that
it was yesterday when I started. I applied heat overnight (bulb in the
tank) but it has not cured at all!

Known:
Mix ratio was 10:1, I have gone over and over the mix steps and ratio
was 10:1
Humidity outside is pretty high ( 80-100%) but with the element heater I
use in the garage, it is probably 50-75% inside.

Possible issues
Wrong accelerant or Proseal - the can does say MIL-S-8802F TY II CL B2
(the F is not on my P/S spec sheet)
Also, I just noticed that the can also has the numbers 236 B-2 stamped
on it. Anyone know if that is significant?
Maybe long cure times are normal (doubtful - as it suggests you have
limited time to work with it once mixed).

I would appreciate any insight you folks have. I suspect at the least I
have to strip it all off and clean it up.

--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com


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Scott, My Van's Thiokol (Pro-seal) has the same numbers on it that yours
does. Mil spec is same as yours and also MC-236 and to use accelerator batch
87023. The accelerator I was given is MC-236 and batch 87023. Ours was
starting to set up well within two hours. I remember mixing a little MEK
with it to soften it up a little so I could get a better finish on it. Just
used this in the corners so I could brush it in tight. Good luck, sAs

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel-return@dcsol.com
[mailto:murphy-rebel-return@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Scott Hibbs
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 7:11 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Pro-Seal cure time has me scared.............


I had some excellent suggestions on Pro-Sealing my tanks, including the
suggestion that I buy new Pro-Seal. I bought a couple of quarts from
Van's Aircraft here in Portland and it is dated 12/99.

The problem is that the gunk is still the same sticky consistency that
it was yesterday when I started. I applied heat overnight (bulb in the
tank) but it has not cured at all!

Known:
Mix ratio was 10:1, I have gone over and over the mix steps and ratio
was 10:1
Humidity outside is pretty high ( 80-100%) but with the element heater I
use in the garage, it is probably 50-75% inside.

Possible issues
Wrong accelerant or Proseal - the can does say MIL-S-8802F TY II CL B2
(the F is not on my P/S spec sheet)
Also, I just noticed that the can also has the numbers 236 B-2 stamped
on it. Anyone know if that is significant?
Maybe long cure times are normal (doubtful - as it suggests you have
limited time to work with it once mixed).

I would appreciate any insight you folks have. I suspect at the least I
have to strip it all off and clean it up.

--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com


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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*----------------------------------------------------*

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Hi Scott

Relax
Some of the stuff takes a long time to set up. I'm sure it is at least slightly
more viscous than yesterday and even if it takes two weeks to set up (been
there), I am told that the final product is just fine. Generally I find that it
takes a couple of days to set up at 60F and several weeks to loose most of its
tackiness.

THe B-2 simply means a minimum 2 hour working time at normal room temp.

You will be fine even if you have to wait a couple of weeks. THat advice comes
to me from guys who have used this stuff professionally for years on certified
a/c.

Ken
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I kind of wonder about mixing in MEK. I know people do it but MAM amd others say
even letting MEK touch cured pro-seal may weaken it. Even the brushable pro-seal
(A-1/2) is a bit thick but it is brushable with a stiff acid brush.
Ken

Sam Archer wrote:

Scott, My Van's Thiokol (Pro-seal) has the same numbers on it that yours
does. Mil spec is same as yours and also MC-236 and to use accelerator batch
87023. The accelerator I was given is MC-236 and batch 87023. Ours was
starting to set up well within two hours. I remember mixing a little MEK
with it to soften it up a little so I could get a better finish on it. Just
used this in the corners so I could brush it in tight. Good luck, sAs

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Your following message has been delivered to the 149 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 12:38:27 on 19 Mar 2000.
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Scott,

Like others have said, give it some time and don't get yourself into a
nightmare by trying to tear things apart! Make sure you set something over
the tank area though (lightly covered) to keep any aluminum chips or dust
from settling on the tacky Proseal.

I have had batches of Proseal in the winter, when it was relatively cool and
dry in the shop, that I actually had to take a tray of water and set it
inside the tank with a heater blowing across it (top skin still not
installed obviously). This added warmth and humidity to the tank area and
allowed the prosealed to set up. Proseal needs both humidity (which doesn't
sound like a problem at your house) and warmth to cure.

I find the same thing using Sikaflex to build floats. Both Proseal and
Sikaflex are hydroscopic and need to absorb moisture out of the air to
cure. In the winter I can use Sikaflex to rivet the entire side on a float
(approximately 7 hours straight work) and I still have time to fillet the
bulkheads when done riveting. In summer it barely stays workable for 3
hours! Therefore I try to schedule all this gooy work for winter to allow a
longer work time. The big bonus of this, is that it is alot more comfortable
wearing my fresh air hood when it is 65F in the shop, than when it's a 100F.
The disadvantage is that I can not run the exhaust fan or open the outside
door for air in the shop or it gets to cold. The fumes definitely keep
unwanted visitors out of the shop though!!

I know your work schedule is now screwed up while you wait to see that this
stuff actually hardens, but there are lots of other things to work on while
you wait! (besides, your wife probably has a HONEY Do list on the fridge!)

Keep at it Scott, it WILL be worth it in the end!
Wayne G. O'Shea - Rebel 243R and various others!
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Hibbs <hibbs@pacifier.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, March 19, 2000 10:07 AM
Subject: Pro-Seal cure time has me scared.............

I had some excellent suggestions on Pro-Sealing my tanks, including the
suggestion that I buy new Pro-Seal. I bought a couple of quarts from
Van's Aircraft here in Portland and it is dated 12/99.

The problem is that the gunk is still the same sticky consistency that
it was yesterday when I started. I applied heat overnight (bulb in the
tank) but it has not cured at all!

Known:
Mix ratio was 10:1, I have gone over and over the mix steps and ratio
was 10:1
Humidity outside is pretty high ( 80-100%) but with the element heater I
use in the garage, it is probably 50-75% inside.

Possible issues
Wrong accelerant or Proseal - the can does say MIL-S-8802F TY II CL B2
(the F is not on my P/S spec sheet)
Also, I just noticed that the can also has the numbers 236 B-2 stamped
on it. Anyone know if that is significant?
Maybe long cure times are normal (doubtful - as it suggests you have
limited time to work with it once mixed).

I would appreciate any insight you folks have. I suspect at the least I
have to strip it all off and clean it up.

--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com


*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*----------------------------------------------------*




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JAT - that ratio was by WEIGHT, wasn't it ???

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 07:11 AM 3/19/00 -0800, you wrote:

I had some excellent suggestions on Pro-Sealing my tanks, including the
suggestion that I buy new Pro-Seal. I bought a couple of quarts from
Van's Aircraft here in Portland and it is dated 12/99.

The problem is that the gunk is still the same sticky consistency that
it was yesterday when I started. I applied heat overnight (bulb in the
tank) but it has not cured at all!

Known:
Mix ratio was 10:1, I have gone over and over the mix steps and ratio
was 10:1
Humidity outside is pretty high ( 80-100%) but with the element heater I
use in the garage, it is probably 50-75% inside.

Possible issues
Wrong accelerant or Proseal - the can does say MIL-S-8802F TY II CL B2
(the F is not on my P/S spec sheet)
Also, I just noticed that the can also has the numbers 236 B-2 stamped
on it. Anyone know if that is significant?
Maybe long cure times are normal (doubtful - as it suggests you have
limited time to work with it once mixed).

I would appreciate any insight you folks have. I suspect at the least I
have to strip it all off and clean it up.

--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com


*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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