The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:45 pm**

Hello All,

We are getting ready to rivet the corner wraps on and wanted to hear
some opinions on creasing the edges of all corner wraps, (including the
tapered corner wraps which on the SR are about 0.40"?), with an edge
roller as MAM suggests.. what tools? how "deep" to put the crease? how
to keep the crease uniform?, etc. OR should they just be sealed and with
what? pro-seal? silicone?

Peter & Monica

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:45 pm**

Peter & Monica,
I used an edge roller that was purchased at Arlington several years ago.
The edge roller has two rollers and they are welded to a pair of vise grips.
I find that it works very well, but I had to practice to ensure that the
roller stays on the edge and does not roll off the material. When that
happens you will get a crease off the edge of the wrap. I used the zinc
chromate to seal the seams and that works well. On the .040 material I used
the edge roller on the long sides and a shrinker on ends. I understand
paint does not stick well to silicone and its difficult to clean from the
surface.
Al Paxhia SR026
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter & Monica <capete@sympatico.ca>
To: murphy <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Monday, March 13, 2000 12:48 PM
Subject: corner wraps

Hello All,

We are getting ready to rivet the corner wraps on and wanted to hear
some opinions on creasing the edges of all corner wraps, (including the
tapered corner wraps which on the SR are about 0.40"?), with an edge
roller as MAM suggests.. what tools? how "deep" to put the crease? how
to keep the crease uniform?, etc. OR should they just be sealed and with
what? pro-seal? silicone?

Peter & Monica

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:45 pm**

Peter & Monica

If you mean putting a couple of degrees of bend about 1/4" from the edge, I use
an Avery 1042 edge rolling tool ($12.) It is two nylon rollers mounted on a 3"
round hunk of aluminum. Easier to control than the type with the rollers on a
straight shaft.
Just run it up and down the edge. This insures no gap when you rivet it
together.

In regards to your tanks, I have heard the recommendation to put 4 inspection
openings in the SR tanks but that's about all I know about the SR.

Ken

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:45 pm**

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Your following message has been delivered to the 149 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 21:57:23 on 13 Mar 2000.
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Peter/Monica,

You can make your own "roller" tool with a 6" length of 1" x 3/16" (or 1/4")
steel flat stock. Drill and tap for cap screws to mount 1" dia x 1/4" wide
steel roller bearings at the required distance apart for the sheet thickness
(mount bearings at one end so leaves about 4" for a handle). I have a few
different ones to use on thin and thick sheets. Take about 20 minutes to
make and work better than the flanging tool I bought from ATS (that I never
use)

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net <klehman@albedo.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Monday, March 13, 2000 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: corner wraps

Peter & Monica

If you mean putting a couple of degrees of bend about 1/4" from the edge, I

use

an Avery 1042 edge rolling tool ($12.) It is two nylon rollers mounted on a

3"

round hunk of aluminum. Easier to control than the type with the rollers on

a

straight shaft.
Just run it up and down the edge. This insures no gap when you rivet it
together.

In regards to your tanks, I have heard the recommendation to put 4

inspection

openings in the SR tanks but that's about all I know about the SR.

Ken

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm**

Bruce,
You <could> do that - it would definitely help. I did that on one
of my earlier Rebels, when the original FUS-10 cracked - it was just a
temporary repair. Eventually, the old FUS-10's had to have the rivets
drilled out, and were replaced with FUS-70's (.025). Today, I would
just go to the latest FUS-(532 ??) of .032 thickness.

I guess they still sell the FUS-10's, but <I> sure wouldn't use
them up front, unless I were building a Very Light Rebel for use with
a Rotax 912 ONLY.

Personally, if you're not going to move the firewall, I would
strongly recommend replacing at least the bottom FUS-10's with the
heavier corner wraps - if you're going on floats, you WILL have to do
this someday, anyway !
-------
....bobp

-----------------------------orig.------------------------------------------
At 11:13 PM 12/22/00 EST, you wrote:

Bob,

I was at the Factory last month and picked up two corner raps and they are
stilled called fus 10, and are still .20 (I just measured one). I was
considering cutting the firewall back but decided not to.

I hear some are doubling up the corner raps? I was not going to take apart
what has been made to install heaver ones, but is it recommended to just cut
the .20 fus 10's short and rivet them over the originals?

Bruce G 357R
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm**

Hi Bruce !

If you're going to drill the rivets out anyway, you would be
better off to go to the thicker corner wraps ! If you still want to
double-up, you should liberally coat the pieces with epoxy chromate
& put them together wet, then rivet. Without the epoxy, this will
become a moisture trap, and you could have hidden corrosion.

If you DO go to new, thicker corner wraps, many builders now
do NOT trim them - they leave the extra material extending inward, and
add another row of rivets. This will add to the strength of the floor
and side walls....

......bobp

PS
I changed the SUBJECT line above - this is always a "GOOD THING"(tm)
to do when the topic shifts ! :-)

------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 10:53 PM 12/23/00 -0500, you wrote:

HI Bruce

I would be inclined to drill out the existing rivets & back drill to install
the corner wraps. The area at the cross over (2" square tube area), is the
one I believe is critical. That is where I have seen cracking in other
Rebels. At that spot, I would definitely want all the material I could get
to make it stiff in compression & also all corners well radiused to ensure
no crack propogation sites.

As far as the bigger rivets, as they are not stainless here, I would have no
problem removing these rivets & sliding in the new pieces. This is where
the problems would take place & therefore you want the thickest material.
The large rivets are not really much harder to remove than the smaller ones
& there would be no more than six per side. In my opinion, just do it.

I also have spring gear & did shorten the firewall. I'm sorry but I don't
understand your explanation for not cutting the firewall back.

Best Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Legeorgen@cs.com [mailto:Legeorgen@cs.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:51 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: new builder

Hi Brian,

Would you drill out the existing rivets on the corner raps, to install the
doublers? Or would you just cut the new ones short and drill new holes just
inside of the existing rivets?

Spring gear would be a "BIG" job to take apart if I use the existing rivet
holes (one of the reasons I chose not to cut back the firewall).

I don't remember, did you cut back your own firewall?

Bruce G
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

I recently had a visit to our only Rebel builder in So. America Jose
Guzzi. (Sao Paulo, Brazil). This is the second time I have managed to
see his progress. His work is high quality. He is now working on his
wings; both are up to the skin installation steps. Like lots of us he
was a bit skeptical about the Proseal process but I feel confident that
I got him past that with a bit of OJT. I left Jose with a few pending
questions to be answered.

Jose has Rebel kit # 700 and will be installing an 0-320 with the offset
carburetor. Are there any particular concerns such as clearance when
doing the metal cowl installation?

Has anyone used the exhaust crossover flanges (p/n BJ-7) from Wicks? Are
they welded in place?

Has anyone installed the economy wheel covers from Aircraft Spruce on
the JDM 6 X 800 tire/rim sets?

At what point did Murphy start supplying .032 corner wraps? His kit
apparently still has the .025.

Wayne.do you have (6) AN6H-47A bolts for a Warp Drive installation?

Paul Michel

Rebel s/n 374

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

AN6H-47A Bolts......... NOPE!

Corner wraps at .025 are just fine! .032's are just a pain in the ass to
work with. MAM combined the Elite and Rebel wraps to cut down on part
numbers to stock.

I presume Jose has 6 x .020 Fus-10's and 2 x .025 Fus-70's?? If he has all
Fus-70's (.025) that's even better as I really like to install a set of .025
Fus-70's on the top tailcone to cabin junction, as a really hard tailwheel
first landing will compress and pucker the lighter Fus-10's. Fus-10's are
just fine on the top firewall to carrythrough corners and the lower cabin to
tailcone transition (although a .025 is nice there as well!)

Shouldn't be any problem building the cowling for an E2D or similar model
with the carb that is mounted offset to one side of the sump and about
center for/aft on same (as opposed to the rear mounted carb on the A2B's
etc). carb is only about 3/8" offset to one side, so I don't see it making a
big difference in building. Just run an angle along each side of the air
filter to make the lower hinge mounts and form yourself the filler pieces to
close off the area around the filter box as you go. Have a look at my head
on shot of my cowling and just envision that your filter is going to sit a
little more proudly into the airstream since it's mounted further forward on
the sump.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Michel" <micreb@bellsouth.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Cc: "Jose" <jose.l.gozzi@uol.com.br>
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 9:15 PM
Subject: Corner wraps

I recently had a visit to our only Rebel builder in So. America Jose
Guzzi. (Sao Paulo, Brazil). This is the second time I have managed to
see his progress. His work is high quality. He is now working on his
wings; both are up to the skin installation steps. Like lots of us he
was a bit skeptical about the Proseal process but I feel confident that
I got him past that with a bit of OJT. I left Jose with a few pending
questions to be answered.

Jose has Rebel kit # 700 and will be installing an 0-320 with the offset
carburetor. Are there any particular concerns such as clearance when
doing the metal cowl installation?

Has anyone used the exhaust crossover flanges (p/n BJ-7) from Wicks? Are
they welded in place?

Has anyone installed the economy wheel covers from Aircraft Spruce on
the JDM 6 X 800 tire/rim sets?

At what point did Murphy start supplying .032 corner wraps? His kit
apparently still has the .025.

Wayne.do you have (6) AN6H-47A bolts for a Warp Drive installation?

Paul Michel

Rebel s/n 374

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

Hi Paul !

Good to hear from you !!

Murphy sells 2 kinds wheel pants - fat ones like the
Renegade, and long sexy ones for Rebels. Both look great -
the fat ones are mud-guards, the long ones can actually help
the cruise a bit .... Both are a pain for refuelling -
you can't stand on them ! Maybe the A-S ones are reinforced
and have a step ?? <All> mounting will take more fiddling
than you imagine to install so you're happy with them....

Ditto Wayne's comment - all .025 FUS-70's is great !
No need to go to the .032. Should be no problem with doing the
metal cowl either. He might want to angle the air filter a bit
more parallel to the cowl bottom....

I hope he has seen all the notes about using Warp Drive
props on Lycomings - there have been tooooo many cracks at the
roots ! Understand W-D will not sell for use on a Lyco ...

More builders are using the exhaust system from MAM -
it's made by the same folks who do Van's. It is a work of art -
stainless, with slip joints for flexible expansion near the
heads, and ball joints near the back ends ! Just support
the back end with a bit of firesleeve, and you're in business !

Hope to see you on a Ramble one of these years !! ;-)

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.-------------------------------
At 09:15 PM 4/26/03 -0400, you wrote:

I recently had a visit to our only Rebel builder in So. America Jose
Guzzi. (Sao Paulo, Brazil). This is the second time I have managed to
see his progress. His work is high quality. He is now working on his
wings; both are up to the skin installation steps. Like lots of us he
was a bit skeptical about the Proseal process but I feel confident that
I got him past that with a bit of OJT. I left Jose with a few pending
questions to be answered.

Jose has Rebel kit # 700 and will be installing an 0-320 with the offset
carburetor. Are there any particular concerns such as clearance when
doing the metal cowl installation?

Has anyone used the exhaust crossover flanges (p/n BJ-7) from Wicks? Are
they welded in place?

Has anyone installed the economy wheel covers from Aircraft Spruce on
the JDM 6 X 800 tire/rim sets?

At what point did Murphy start supplying .032 corner wraps? His kit
apparently still has the .025.

Wayne.do you have (6) AN6H-47A bolts for a Warp Drive installation?

Paul Michel

Rebel s/n 374

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:22 pm**

Angus were your corner wraps the original .20 Fus10 or the newer .32
Fus 70???

We had a smaller turnout than normal yesterday in Brampton but still a
valuable and lively discussion.
I was also able to take a couple of pictures of two different Rebels to
solve my firewall placement questions.
Thanks again to Bob and Anna.

Jim
Rebel 333

Angus McKenzie wrote:

Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several spots and the brake lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice on floats. So, now we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your feet to the calipers for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement increasing brake efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the front of the rear corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Drew
I think Angus has blown both brake lines and float hydraulic lines.
Ken

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines because of leaks. They
were not as high quality lines or fittings as the brake lines though. I
thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his origional instalation.
Drew

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:22 pm**

Hi Jim
Several years ago I redid all the corner wraps and the belly to .032 plus
much more internal witch's-hat stiffening. John and I made these components
ourselves.

I am finding some rivets smoking under the door frame, not sure of the panel
numbers but right under the sill were it begins to angle upward. The rivet
line of concern is vertical and it seems to be were the loading is focused
between the fore and aft float mount fittings.

More stuff to do--a homebuilt is never finished.
..............Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Corner Wraps

Angus were your corner wraps the original .20 Fus10 or the newer .32
Fus 70???

We had a smaller turnout than normal yesterday in Brampton but still a
valuable and lively discussion.
I was also able to take a couple of pictures of two different Rebels to
solve my firewall placement questions.
Thanks again to Bob and Anna.

Jim
Rebel 333

Angus McKenzie wrote:

Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several spots and the brake
lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice on floats. So, now
we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your feet to the calipers
for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement increasing brake
efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the front of the rear
corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines because of leaks. They
were not as high quality lines or fittings as the brake lines though. I
thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his origional instalation.
Drew

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:22 pm**

Thanks Angus, Bob had also mentioned on Sunday to put some support
behind Fus 26 which is the panel below the door. One of the Ontario Mods
is to make that panel out of .032 which I have done and now I'll add a
couple of supports.
Cheers
Jim
Rebel 333

Angus McKenzie wrote:

Hi Jim
Several years ago I redid all the corner wraps and the belly to .032 plus
much more internal witch's-hat stiffening. John and I made these components
ourselves.

I am finding some rivets smoking under the door frame, not sure of the panel
numbers but right under the sill were it begins to angle upward. The rivet
line of concern is vertical and it seems to be were the loading is focused
between the fore and aft float mount fittings.

More stuff to do--a homebuilt is never finished.
..............Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Corner Wraps

Angus were your corner wraps the original .20 Fus10 or the newer .32
Fus 70???

We had a smaller turnout than normal yesterday in Brampton but still a
valuable and lively discussion.
I was also able to take a couple of pictures of two different Rebels to
solve my firewall placement questions.
Thanks again to Bob and Anna.

Jim
Rebel 333

Angus McKenzie wrote:

Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several spots and the brake
lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice on floats. So, now
we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your feet to the calipers
for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement increasing brake
efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now have solid aluminum

from the pump to the floats but still have plastic lines in the floats,

though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the front of the rear
corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:23 pm**

I have .032 on my bottom front corner wraps and .025 on top, and
with well over 300 hours float flying, have yet to find any signs
of stress including rivet smoking. And I have had plenty of hard
large swell rough water landings which beat me up pretty good, so
it's not that I have babied my airplane. I still haven't done
those rear float attach point doublers either, but no signs of
stress or buckling yet there either.

So I do wander what some of you guys do to your airplanes to
cause that kind of stress. I do however, rarely land on non-paved
runways, so maybe that's where it gets kinder treatment.

Anyway, just interesting to hear about this, and I will keep
watching mine.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 5:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Corner Wraps

Hi Jim
Several years ago I redid all the corner wraps and the
belly to .032 plus
much more internal witch's-hat stiffening. John and I
made these components
ourselves.

I am finding some rivets smoking under the door frame,
not sure of the panel
numbers but right under the sill were it begins to
angle upward. The rivet
line of concern is vertical and it seems to be were
the loading is focused
between the fore and aft float mount fittings.

More stuff to do--a homebuilt is never finished.
..............Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Corner Wraps

Angus were your corner wraps the original .20 Fus10
or the newer .32
Fus 70???

We had a smaller turnout than normal yesterday in
Brampton but still a
valuable and lively discussion.
I was also able to take a couple of pictures of two
different Rebels to
solve my firewall placement questions.
Thanks again to Bob and Anna.

Jim
Rebel 333

Angus McKenzie wrote:

Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several
spots and the brake
lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and
twice on floats. So, now
we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your
feet to the calipers
for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement
increasing brake
efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have
blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of
the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably
reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I
now have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic
lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the
front of the rear
corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on
Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

hydraulic lines.
because of leaks. They
brake lines though. I
origional instalation.
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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.0.0 - Release
Date: 11/8/2004

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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.0.0 - Release
Date: 11/8/2004

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:23 pm**

Walter
Did u install a cabin V brace(firewall to top square cross box).

Steve W.

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