The Murphy Builders Site

Hi Gary: I sure find it hard to believe that much damage was caused by the
way you describe. That is something you might see from a bad ground loop. I
used the tail spring from Cdn tire like you have along with the MAM tail
wheel and was very happy. The one thing I notice that is not on that
airplane which really surprised me is the double tail wrap which is a real
important mod from way back. I have also heard complaints before about the
single arm tail wheels not being very good but no experience with same. Lots
of luck on the repair. Bob J - Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles




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From: Garry Wright <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:21:01 -0600

Hi Bob,

Yes. The doubled fus30 wasn't done. I think the notion was it would
never be used on wheels - until I fouled up the floats. The thing that
concerns me most is the damage to both fus 29's which goes beyond any
normal experience that people have reported. I haven't checked the
thickness of the original fus30 yet, suspect it was 0.25 not the current
0.32 due to the vintage of FOKM - 068R. The single arm tailwheel is
going back to ebay and will not be re-used by me. Thanks.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 12:02 -0400, Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:

Hi Gary: I sure find it hard to believe that much damage was caused by

the

way you describe. That is something you might see from a bad ground

loop. I

used the tail spring from Cdn tire like you have along with the MAM tail
wheel and was very happy. The one thing I notice that is not on that
airplane which really surprised me is the double tail wrap which is a

real

important mod from way back. I have also heard complaints before about

the

single arm tail wheels not being very good but no experience with same.

Lots

of luck on the repair. Bob J - Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles




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I have FOKM's tailend apart to repair some wrinkles that appeared in the
Fus29's and the Fus30 as a result apparently of the following:

1. Tailspring is steel Cdn Tire unit per Wayne's design, recently
installed.

2. Tailwheel is Scott24B predecessor of and relabeled to Scott2000 which
is a solid rubber with a single arm rather than the dual arm per the
Scott3200.

3. My tailwheel slipped off the pavement - deliberately, then I believe
when coming back on the pavement the stress gen'd the wrinkles.

My conclusion is that the problem is a result of these contributors:
a) slightly high weight on tailwheel
b) solid unforgiving rubber tire of small diameter
c) single arm causing significant torque on tailspring

I have concluded that the single arm tailwheel is inappropriate for the
Rebel. Tubular frame aircraft seem able to handle it but this design
won't. I must now go thru the Ontario mods to check out rear end mods
that may not have been done so I include everything.

Pics of the damage are at

http://members.davincibb.net/wright

and are

fus53 wrinkles.jpg
tailend wrinkles.jpg

Please provide comments on suggested means for fixing up the fus53. It
is rather impractical to remove fus53 as that would probably entail
causing more damage in the reconstruction than would be caused by a
repair to fus53. I plan to straighten fus53, then put a witches hat on
the inside to stiffen it back to normal strength. Other ideas?

From the picture of the wrinkles, is there any mod missing that I should

be alerted to now that she is apart?

Garry

Gary,
The other thing missing is the triangular reinforcement pieces on the inside
of the fuselage sides. I think it's FUS-89. It goes between FUS-29 and FuS-
30 on the inside.
Jesse

From: Garry Wright <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:21:01 -0600

Hi Bob,

Yes. The doubled fus30 wasn't done. I think the notion was it would
never be used on wheels - until I fouled up the floats. The thing that
concerns me most is the damage to both fus 29's which goes beyond any
normal experience that people have reported. I haven't checked the
thickness of the original fus30 yet, suspect it was 0.25 not the current
0.32 due to the vintage of FOKM - 068R. The single arm tailwheel is
going back to ebay and will not be re-used by me. Thanks.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 12:02 -0400, Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:

Hi Gary: I sure find it hard to believe that much damage was caused by

the

way you describe. That is something you might see from a bad ground

loop. I

used the tail spring from Cdn tire like you have along with the MAM tail
wheel and was very happy. The one thing I notice that is not on that
airplane which really surprised me is the double tail wrap which is a

real

important mod from way back. I have also heard complaints before about

the

single arm tail wheels not being very good but no experience with same.

Lots

of luck on the repair. Bob J - Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles




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Jesse,

My book is pretty old and I don't find a reference to fus89. However, if
you look at the picture at

http://members.davincibb.net/wright

specifically tailend wrinkles.jpg

you will see a triangular reinforcer on the outside between fus29 and
fus30. Is this equivalent to your fus89?

Garry

On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 09:36 -0700, Jesse Jenks wrote:

Gary,
The other thing missing is the triangular reinforcement pieces on the

of the fuselage sides. I think it's FUS-89. It goes between FUS-29 and

30 on the inside.
Jesse

From: Garry Wright <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:21:01 -0600

Hi Bob,

Yes. The doubled fus30 wasn't done. I think the notion was it would
never be used on wheels - until I fouled up the floats. The thing that
concerns me most is the damage to both fus 29's which goes beyond any
normal experience that people have reported. I haven't checked the
thickness of the original fus30 yet, suspect it was 0.25 not the current
0.32 due to the vintage of FOKM - 068R. The single arm tailwheel is
going back to ebay and will not be re-used by me. Thanks.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 12:02 -0400, Robert and Olga Johnson wrote: the loop. I

real the

Lots

Hi Garry !

Looks like you need to get a new manual. ;-) The piece Jesse is
talking about is like a scaled-down FUS-53 - a wide,tapered, bent-up
channel that nests inside the end of FUS-53, and extends it down into
the tail, about half way into FUS-30. It would be about 3 ft. long,
and made out of .025, I think.

It goes inside, and fastens to the skin. Hope that's enough
of a description -- see if you can get a new manual on CD from
the factory.

Hi Garry !

Looks like you need to get a new manual. ;-) The piece Jesse is
talking about is like a scaled-down FUS-53 - a wide,tapered, bent-up
channel that nests inside the end of FUS-53, and extends it down into
the tail, about half way into FUS-30. It would be about 3 ft. long,
and made out of .025, I think.

It goes inside, and fastens to the skin. Hope that's enough
of a description -- see if you can get a new manual on CD from
the factory.

Gary,
The other thing missing is the triangular reinforcement pieces on the inside
of the fuselage sides. I think it's FUS-89. It goes between FUS-29 and FuS-
30 on the inside.
Jesse

From: Garry Wright <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:21:01 -0600

Hi Bob,

Yes. The doubled fus30 wasn't done. I think the notion was it would
never be used on wheels - until I fouled up the floats. The thing that
concerns me most is the damage to both fus 29's which goes beyond any
normal experience that people have reported. I haven't checked the
thickness of the original fus30 yet, suspect it was 0.25 not the current
0.32 due to the vintage of FOKM - 068R. The single arm tailwheel is
going back to ebay and will not be re-used by me. Thanks.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 12:02 -0400, Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:

Hi Gary: I sure find it hard to believe that much damage was caused by

the

way you describe. That is something you might see from a bad ground

loop. I

used the tail spring from Cdn tire like you have along with the MAM tail
wheel and was very happy. The one thing I notice that is not on that
airplane which really surprised me is the double tail wrap which is a

real

important mod from way back. I have also heard complaints before about

the

single arm tail wheels not being very good but no experience with same.

Lots

of luck on the repair. Bob J - Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles




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From: Garry Wright <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:48:06 -0600

Jesse,

That was pretty sharp to notice that fus89 missing from the picture.
Thanks a bunch. It explains why the fus29's and fus53 failed I think.

Garry


On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 09:36 -0700, Jesse Jenks wrote:

Gary,
The other thing missing is the triangular reinforcement pieces on the

inside

of the fuselage sides. I think it's FUS-89. It goes between FUS-29 and

FuS-

30 on the inside.
Jesse

From: Garry Wright <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:21:01 -0600

Hi Bob,

Yes. The doubled fus30 wasn't done. I think the notion was it would
never be used on wheels - until I fouled up the floats. The thing that
concerns me most is the damage to both fus 29's which goes beyond any
normal experience that people have reported. I haven't checked the
thickness of the original fus30 yet, suspect it was 0.25 not the

current

0.32 due to the vintage of FOKM - 068R. The single arm tailwheel is
going back to ebay and will not be re-used by me. Thanks.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 12:02 -0400, Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:

by

the loop. I

tail

a

real

about

the

same.

Lots

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Garry,
I Just checked my manual and it is called FUS-89. It actually nests inside
the side skin and overlaps onto the inside of the FUS-30. The side skins in
my manual are called FUS-22-1, but I think that's what you are calling
FUS-53. Anyway the FUS-89 would be easy to make yourself. They are about 16"
long in total. They have the edges bent up to make flanges. Just imagine the
aft 16 inches of the side skin and that's what they look like, only a bit
narrower at the aft end. I think they are .025. You could really make them
as long as you want, but mine have about 5 inches on the side skin and about
11 inches on the FUS-30. I don't have the holes cut for the elevator
pushrods yet, but the aft end of the fus 89 will be about at the front edge
of the hole.
Jesse

From: Garry Wright <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:48:06 -0600

Jesse,

That was pretty sharp to notice that fus89 missing from the picture.
Thanks a bunch. It explains why the fus29's and fus53 failed I think.

Garry


On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 09:36 -0700, Jesse Jenks wrote:

Gary,
The other thing missing is the triangular reinforcement pieces on the

inside

of the fuselage sides. I think it's FUS-89. It goes between FUS-29 and

FuS-

30 on the inside.
Jesse

current

by

tail

a

about

same.

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Hi Bob,

Yes. The doubled fus30 wasn't done. I think the notion was it would
never be used on wheels - until I fouled up the floats. The thing that
concerns me most is the damage to both fus 29's which goes beyond any
normal experience that people have reported. I haven't checked the
thickness of the original fus30 yet, suspect it was 0.25 not the current
0.32 due to the vintage of FOKM - 068R. The single arm tailwheel is
going back to ebay and will not be re-used by me. Thanks.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 12:02 -0400, Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:

Hi Gary: I sure find it hard to believe that much damage was caused by the
way you describe. That is something you might see from a bad ground loop. I
used the tail spring from Cdn tire like you have along with the MAM tail
wheel and was very happy. The one thing I notice that is not on that
airplane which really surprised me is the double tail wrap which is a real
important mod from way back. I have also heard complaints before about the
single arm tail wheels not being very good but no experience with same. Lots
of luck on the repair. Bob J - Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles

hi garry

also in pics i dont think i see a doubler around rudder cable hole, all
openings should have a doubler who ever built it must have forgot, as for
tail cone thickness, my kit was 007 and it had .020 tail cone which i
upgraded to the elite tail cone !! a lot stronger now

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Garry Wright
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:19 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles


Thanks Jesse. I will do that. Much appreciated.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 15:34 -0700, Jesse Jenks wrote:

Garry,
I Just checked my manual and it is called FUS-89. It actually nests inside

the side skin and overlaps onto the inside of the FUS-30. The side skins

in

my manual are called FUS-22-1, but I think that's what you are calling
FUS-53. Anyway the FUS-89 would be easy to make yourself. They are about

16"

long in total. They have the edges bent up to make flanges. Just imagine

the

aft 16 inches of the side skin and that's what they look like, only a bit
narrower at the aft end. I think they are .025. You could really make them

as long as you want, but mine have about 5 inches on the side skin and

about

11 inches on the FUS-30. I don't have the holes cut for the elevator
pushrods yet, but the aft end of the fus 89 will be about at the front

edge

of the hole.
Jesse

From: Garry Wright <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:48:06 -0600

Jesse,

That was pretty sharp to notice that fus89 missing from the picture.
Thanks a bunch. It explains why the fus29's and fus53 failed I think.

Garry


On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 09:36 -0700, Jesse Jenks wrote: inside

FuS-

that

current

caused

by

ground

MAM

tail

that

is

a about same.

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119R came with a 0.020 fus-30 so it is very possible that is what is on
68R. No typo there - twenty thou!

I don't understand the allegation that a single arm tailwheel applies
torque to the tail spring. I will go so far as to say it does not as I'm
fairly sure the center of your wheel is vertically located under the
center of the spring - same as it would be with any tail wheel. I do
believe that a single arm tailwheel yoke will be heavier than a dual arm
design for the same strength but that is the only structural compromise
that I see.

I believe that my dual leaf steel tailspring reduces most forces on the
tail structure by virtue of it being considerably more flexible than the
aluminum "spring". I prefer a single bolt through the spring design as
used in all road designs but it doesn't sound like that was a factor at
all here. I agree that a pneumatic wheel might also reduce peak stresses.

I believe that the lack of FUS-89 re-inforcements (see the bulletin) to
transfer loads into the Fus-29 is a factor here. Also the lack of
doubler around the rudder cable holes. FWIW I also elected to increase
the size of the triangular doubler that ties Fus29 to Fus 30 on the
sides of the fuselage.

Ken

Garry Wright wrote:

Hi Bob,

Yes. The doubled fus30 wasn't done. I think the notion was it would
never be used on wheels - until I fouled up the floats. The thing that
concerns me most is the damage to both fus 29's which goes beyond any
normal experience that people have reported. I haven't checked the
thickness of the original fus30 yet, suspect it was 0.25 not the current
0.32 due to the vintage of FOKM - 068R. The single arm tailwheel is
going back to ebay and will not be re-used by me. Thanks.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 12:02 -0400, Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:

Hi Gary: I sure find it hard to believe that much damage was caused by the
way you describe. That is something you might see from a bad ground loop. I
used the tail spring from Cdn tire like you have along with the MAM tail
wheel and was very happy. The one thing I notice that is not on that
airplane which really surprised me is the double tail wrap which is a real
important mod from way back. I have also heard complaints before about the
single arm tail wheels not being very good but no experience with same. Lots
of luck on the repair. Bob J - Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] rebel tailend wrinkles

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