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Anyone,

I've just rivetted one of the aileron trailing edge's (AIL-28) to the
trailing edge ribs. There are two rivets through each side of the trailing
edge into each rib (Fig 2.2.6 of the manual). The manual advises to offset
the the two (one top, one bottom) rearmost rivets for clearance. The manual
offers no measurements for the offset.

I didn't find a whole lot of room to play with regarding this offset, and
still stay within the edge spacing and rivet spacing requirements.

And so when I went to rivet the opposite rearmost rivet, it bumps up against
the rivet from the other side. With some angling of the rivet and with some
slight squeezing of the riveter I was able to ease the rivet fully into the
rivet hole. However there is no clearance between the two opposite rivets
now. and it seems to have pushed the entire aileron slightly out of square.

Any suggestions? I'm getting frustrated!

Roger
Eugene, OR USA
Rebel 687


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This has been a challenge for a long time ....

Some early builders disassembled rivets & cut them down - now I think you
can just buy shorter rivets. Your method of partially squeezing & angling
is the popular method, but shorter rivets should help considerably.

....bobp

---------------------------orig.-------------------------------------------
At 01:21 PM 3/11/00 -0800, you wrote:

Anyone,

I've just rivetted one of the aileron trailing edge's (AIL-28) to the
trailing edge ribs. There are two rivets through each side of the trailing
edge into each rib (Fig 2.2.6 of the manual). The manual advises to offset
the the two (one top, one bottom) rearmost rivets for clearance. The manual
offers no measurements for the offset.

I didn't find a whole lot of room to play with regarding this offset, and
still stay within the edge spacing and rivet spacing requirements.

And so when I went to rivet the opposite rearmost rivet, it bumps up against
the rivet from the other side. With some angling of the rivet and with some
slight squeezing of the riveter I was able to ease the rivet fully into the
rivet hole. However there is no clearance between the two opposite rivets
now. and it seems to have pushed the entire aileron slightly out of square.

Any suggestions? I'm getting frustrated!

Roger
Eugene, OR USA
Rebel 687


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Hi Roger:

I just went through building the ailerons for the Rebel. I learned a couple of things that make it a little easier. First try to offset the two opposite trailing rivets as much as possible while still keeping the minimum edge distance. In this case the minimum edge distance will likely end up being tight on the 2D on the most rearward rivet. I don't believe that there will be extreme shear loads in this area so it should be ok.

**Second rivet the side of the trailing edge that has the most rearward rivet first, this will get the most difficult rivet to put in out of the way and then allow more room to put in the opposite rivet. You will be able to angle that rivet a little more. When you angle the rivet to put it in make sure that the entire trailing edge is support by the table so that you can apply a little pressure to the gun, so the rivet is pulled straight. If you do not apply enough pressure the rivet will pull incorrectly. If you apply too much and the trailing edge is not supported it will bend.

Third you can purchase shorter rivets for the odd ones that you cannot get in. I think I had to use only one, just made it a little easier. You can purchase 1/8 rivets with a smaller grip length of 0.063 and 0.0125. The ones you are using are 0.187 so they are a bit shorter, but just short enough.

Good Luck
Randy Straeten

Roger

The 3/16" grip rivet seems to be the shortest avex rivet available, probably
cause it is rated down to .032 minimum grip. I have ordered some BSP 41 rivets
that are supposed to have the same strength and a 1/16" grip. The BSP 41 is .3"
long versus .41" for the avex. We know it doesn't expand and fill the hole as
well as the avex and it is likely NOT really as strong as the avex the way we
use them, but I thought I'd try it in a couple of low/no stress areas where I
also have a length problem. I would NOT use it in the rear of the flaperons
though without the blessing of MAM.

Unfortunately the minimum length structural Q rivet seems to be the 1/8" grip
rivet (BSPQ 42). The catalogs list a BSPQ 41 with .212" length but nobody seems
to stock it. A special order requires 10,000 rivets it would seem. The BSPQ 42
is listed as only .275" long so it might be worth considering. The ones I just
looked at though are in fact longer than the avex. However, unlike the avex
ones, you can start to pull these a little before they are fully pushed into the
hole and I think you get the .275" length before there is any significant
expansion. I would guess that MAM would approve its use since it is much
stronger than the avex. These are twice the cost of the avex and are called
structural rivets because the mandrel is designed to remain in the rivet to
increase its shear strength. ie the mandrel breaks off at the mid grip rating
length.

I don't know anything about the length or availability of the CR3243-4-1 listed
in ASS for $0.77 US each. I think those need a special rivet puller but....
Cherry Textron does have a web site that might help.

It did not take very much offset for the avex rivets to miss each other on my
flaperons but there wasn't much that could be done with the prepunched holes at
the rear of the rudder and elevator skins.

Ken


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Roger

The 3/16" grip rivet seems to be the shortest avex rivet available, probably
cause it is rated down to .032 minimum grip. I have ordered some BSP 41 rivets
that are supposed to have the same strength and a 1/16" grip. The BSP 41 is .3"
long versus .41" for the avex. These don't expand and fill the hole as
well as the avex and they are likely NOT really as strong as the avex the way we
use them, but I thought I'd try them in a couple of low/no stress areas where I
also have a length problem. I would NOT use them in the rear of the flaperons
though without the blessing of MAM.

Unfortunately the minimum length structural Q rivet seems to be the 1/8" grip
rivet (BSPQ 42). The catalogs list a BSPQ 41 with .212" length but nobody seems
to stock it. Although I just noticed that ASS also lists it in their catalog
so maybe they have them. The BSPQ 42 is supposed to be only .275" long but
the ones I just looked at are in fact longer than
the avex. However, unlike the avex ones, you can easilly start to pull these a
little before they are fully pushed into the
hole and I think you get the .275" length before there is any significant
expansion. MAM might approve its use since it is much
stronger than the avex. These are only twice the cost of the avex and are called
structural rivets because the mandrel is designed to remain in the rivet to
increase its shear strength. ie the mandrel breaks off at the mid grip rating
length.

I don't know anything about the length or availability of the CR3243-4-1 listed
in ASS for $0.77 US each. I think those may need a special rivet puller and they
are pricey but.... Cherry Textron does have a web site that might help.

It did not take very much offset for the avex rivets to miss each other on my
flaperons but there wasn't much that could be done with the prepunched holes at
the rear of the rudder and elevator skins.

Ken

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