The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:08 am**

At 07:20 AM 9/9/2006 -0400, you wrote:

I was wondering when the outer skins get rivited ? ( fus 39, 40 )
as the man has proceeded we just keep going on and on with no mention of
riviting these skins ? Now I'm going on to the inner floor channels between
the cabin uprights and bulkheads A and F. this would be section 12.15.1 I
just don't see how you can make these with the bulkheads not being rivited ?
One more item would it be to any advantage to go with the stainless steel
firewall or the stock fus 6 that came with the kit ?
Thank you to all that can help with these questions.
Dave T / rebel #009

You need a stainless firewall. I made a double firwall using the aluminum
one and just cutting the stainless so it fits flat just inside the flanges.
Then I rivetted the witches hats over both. If you go with just stainless
it's a very good idea to use Wayne's stiffener plates or make your own as
the stainless isn't very stong by itself and you'll get tearing around the
motor mount after not many hours.
Drew

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:08 am**

Hi Dave

I don't remember what Fus 39 and 40 were but I believe I had all outer
fuselage skins riveted on by the time I got to what is 12.15 in the
newer manual.

Everything Bobp said about the firewall but I'd just laminate it if you
don't already possess the stainless firewall. 119R has a flat stainless
sheet riveted to the forward side of the original aluminum firewall. It
added some weight but it also adds strength which is apparently a good
thing if you ever ground loop it. Note that the cross channel between
the upper engine mount points is also intended to add strength between
the engine mount points. Some guys even add heavy plates to the firewall
at the engine mount points. Depending upon your engine mount design, a
laminated firewall may be a good alternative to that. The plates may be
a good idea with the standard Lycoming mounts that I've seen but a
laminated firewall should reduce te need. A laminated firewall also
reduces the heat coming through into the cockpit a bit. Regardless of
whether you laminate it or not, you must seal the edges with fire
resistant sealant. Sightly off topic but it may also be a very good
idea to use a steel cabin heat valve and box if you want an effective
firewall.

Ken

David L. Tuck wrote:

I was wondering when the outer skins get rivited ? ( fus 39, 40 )
as the man has proceeded we just keep going on and on with no mention of
riviting these skins ? Now I'm going on to the inner floor channels between
the cabin uprights and bulkheads A and F. this would be section 12.15.1 I
just don't see how you can make these with the bulkheads not being rivited ?
One more item would it be to any advantage to go with the stainless steel
firewall or the stock fus 6 that came with the kit ?
Thank you to all that can help with these questions.
Dave T / rebel #009

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am**

I'm confused like David. It doesn't make sense to try and locate the floor
channels without the skin riveted in place. So what did everyone else do?

Allen Poulsen
786R

----- Original Message -----
From: "David L. Tuck" <dltuck53@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

I was wondering when the outer skins get rivited ? ( fus 39, 40 )
as the man has proceeded we just keep going on and on with no mention of
riviting these skins ? Now I'm going on to the inner floor channels
between
the cabin uprights and bulkheads A and F. this would be section 12.15.1 I
just don't see how you can make these with the bulkheads not being rivited
?
One more item would it be to any advantage to go with the stainless steel
firewall or the stock fus 6 that came with the kit ?
Thank you to all that can help with these questions.
Dave T / rebel #009

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am**

Allen, David
I started the cabin section by locating the bulkheads and drilling them and
the skins upside down. I then clecoed everything to the table and began to
build up from there. I have everything done from the cage back, and no
rivets yet. I am using the same technique I did on the tail cone that I
think of as "build it up, build it down". In the build it up part I get as
much of the structure clecoed together as possible not worrying about a lot
of the details. Then build it down means that I start from the top and
finish things off as I go (still no rivets) finishing all the tricky stuff
like wing and gear fittings and drilling to final rivet size and
disassembling from the top down. The next stage is the dreaded prep and
prime which is pure drudgery. Then I rebuild from the bottom up with rivets.
This allows me to rivet the bottom skins to the bulkheads and floor channels
first with that part upside down on the table, then turn it over and off you
go. I don't rivet the bulkhead quarter sections together until that first
"bathtub" is done, and then build it up again, hopefully for the last time.
Jesse

From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:35:55 -0400

I'm confused like David. It doesn't make sense to try and locate the floor
channels without the skin riveted in place. So what did everyone else do?

Allen Poulsen
786R

----- Original Message -----
From: "David L. Tuck" <dltuck53@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

I was wondering when the outer skins get rivited ? ( fus 39, 40 )
as the man has proceeded we just keep going on and on with no mention of
riviting these skins ? Now I'm going on to the inner floor channels
between
the cabin uprights and bulkheads A and F. this would be section 12.15.1
I
just don't see how you can make these with the bulkheads not being
rivited
?
One more item would it be to any advantage to go with the stainless
steel
firewall or the stock fus 6 that came with the kit ?
Thank you to all that can help with these questions.
Dave T / rebel #009

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am**

Hi Jesse,

Since I've followed the manual, the roof and a lot of the sides are all
riveted in place. In your opinion/recollection, if turn it over and rivet
the bottom skins to the bulkheads before I fit the floor channels will it
come back to haunt me? I know I need to leave a couple of rivets out each
side so they aren't in the way of the corner wraps and I know not to rivet
into the forward end since there will be another skin to join there. Would
just like to stabilize the whole thing before installing the floor channels.

Thanks for your input!!

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

Allen, David
I started the cabin section by locating the bulkheads and drilling them
and
the skins upside down. I then clecoed everything to the table and began to
build up from there. I have everything done from the cage back, and no
rivets yet. I am using the same technique I did on the tail cone that I
think of as "build it up, build it down". In the build it up part I get as
much of the structure clecoed together as possible not worrying about a
lot
of the details. Then build it down means that I start from the top and
finish things off as I go (still no rivets) finishing all the tricky stuff
like wing and gear fittings and drilling to final rivet size and
disassembling from the top down. The next stage is the dreaded prep and
prime which is pure drudgery. Then I rebuild from the bottom up with
rivets.
This allows me to rivet the bottom skins to the bulkheads and floor
channels
first with that part upside down on the table, then turn it over and off
you
go. I don't rivet the bulkhead quarter sections together until that first
"bathtub" is done, and then build it up again, hopefully for the last
time.
Jesse

From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:35:55 -0400

I'm confused like David. It doesn't make sense to try and locate the floor
channels without the skin riveted in place. So what did everyone else do?

Allen Poulsen
786R

----- Original Message -----
From: "David L. Tuck" <dltuck53@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

I was wondering when the outer skins get rivited ? ( fus 39, 40 )
as the man has proceeded we just keep going on and on with no mention
of
riviting these skins ? Now I'm going on to the inner floor channels
between
the cabin uprights and bulkheads A and F. this would be section 12.15.1
I
just don't see how you can make these with the bulkheads not being
rivited
?
One more item would it be to any advantage to go with the stainless
steel
firewall or the stock fus 6 that came with the kit ?
Thank you to all that can help with these questions.
Dave T / rebel #009

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am**

Allan,
No I don't think it will come back to haunt you, but if you do it that way
you will have to get underneath a second time to rivet the channels. Why not
drill through the bulkheads into the floor and the table and cleco in a few
spots to anchor everything down, then you can install the channels and when
you flip it over you can drill and rivet everything.
Clecos in the table is a great way to hold alignment.
Jesse

From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:38:42 -0400

Hi Jesse,

Since I've followed the manual, the roof and a lot of the sides are all
riveted in place. In your opinion/recollection, if turn it over and rivet
the bottom skins to the bulkheads before I fit the floor channels will it
come back to haunt me? I know I need to leave a couple of rivets out each
side so they aren't in the way of the corner wraps and I know not to rivet
into the forward end since there will be another skin to join there. Would
just like to stabilize the whole thing before installing the floor
channels.

Thanks for your input!!

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

Allen, David
I started the cabin section by locating the bulkheads and drilling them
and
the skins upside down. I then clecoed everything to the table and began
to
build up from there. I have everything done from the cage back, and no
rivets yet. I am using the same technique I did on the tail cone that I
think of as "build it up, build it down". In the build it up part I get
as
much of the structure clecoed together as possible not worrying about a
lot
of the details. Then build it down means that I start from the top and
finish things off as I go (still no rivets) finishing all the tricky
stuff
like wing and gear fittings and drilling to final rivet size and
disassembling from the top down. The next stage is the dreaded prep and
prime which is pure drudgery. Then I rebuild from the bottom up with
rivets.
This allows me to rivet the bottom skins to the bulkheads and floor
channels
first with that part upside down on the table, then turn it over and off
you
go. I don't rivet the bulkhead quarter sections together until that
first
"bathtub" is done, and then build it up again, hopefully for the last
time.
Jesse

From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:35:55 -0400

I'm confused like David. It doesn't make sense to try and locate the
floor
channels without the skin riveted in place. So what did everyone else
do?
Allen Poulsen
786R

----- Original Message -----
From: "David L. Tuck" <dltuck53@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

12.15.1
I rivited steel

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am**

Jesse,

That doesn't work for the prepunched part of the skin but I went ahead and
did what you suggest for the channels and the other bulkheads.

I hate to bring it up again, but with 800+ kits in the field I would be nice
if MAM would take the time to create a decent manual. It's a bit like
driving a car by looking in the rear view mirror instead of looking out the
windshield.

Thanks again!!

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

Allan,
No I don't think it will come back to haunt you, but if you do it that way
you will have to get underneath a second time to rivet the channels. Why
not
drill through the bulkheads into the floor and the table and cleco in a
few
spots to anchor everything down, then you can install the channels and
when
you flip it over you can drill and rivet everything.
Clecos in the table is a great way to hold alignment.
Jesse

From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:38:42 -0400

Hi Jesse,

Since I've followed the manual, the roof and a lot of the sides are all
riveted in place. In your opinion/recollection, if turn it over and rivet
the bottom skins to the bulkheads before I fit the floor channels will it
come back to haunt me? I know I need to leave a couple of rivets out each
side so they aren't in the way of the corner wraps and I know not to rivet
into the forward end since there will be another skin to join there. Would
just like to stabilize the whole thing before installing the floor
channels.

Thanks for your input!!

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

Allen, David
I started the cabin section by locating the bulkheads and drilling them
and
the skins upside down. I then clecoed everything to the table and began
to
build up from there. I have everything done from the cage back, and no
rivets yet. I am using the same technique I did on the tail cone that I
think of as "build it up, build it down". In the build it up part I get
as
much of the structure clecoed together as possible not worrying about a
lot
of the details. Then build it down means that I start from the top and
finish things off as I go (still no rivets) finishing all the tricky
stuff
like wing and gear fittings and drilling to final rivet size and
disassembling from the top down. The next stage is the dreaded prep and
prime which is pure drudgery. Then I rebuild from the bottom up with
rivets.
This allows me to rivet the bottom skins to the bulkheads and floor
channels
first with that part upside down on the table, then turn it over and
off
you
go. I don't rivet the bulkhead quarter sections together until that
first
"bathtub" is done, and then build it up again, hopefully for the last
time.
Jesse

floor
do?
12.15.1

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am**

Allen,
I forgot that some holes in the bottom skin are punched. It's been a while
since mine got clecoed to the table. It sounds like you are on your way
though. I agree totally about the manual... mostly junk. I have spent way
too much time figuring out how to do things that should be basic.
Jesse

From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:33:31 -0400

Jesse,

That doesn't work for the prepunched part of the skin but I went ahead and
did what you suggest for the channels and the other bulkheads.

I hate to bring it up again, but with 800+ kits in the field I would be
nice
if MAM would take the time to create a decent manual. It's a bit like
driving a car by looking in the rear view mirror instead of looking out the
windshield.

Thanks again!!

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

Allan,
No I don't think it will come back to haunt you, but if you do it that
way
you will have to get underneath a second time to rivet the channels. Why
not
drill through the bulkheads into the floor and the table and cleco in a
few
spots to anchor everything down, then you can install the channels and
when
you flip it over you can drill and rivet everything.
Clecos in the table is a great way to hold alignment.
Jesse

From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:38:42 -0400

Hi Jesse,

Since I've followed the manual, the roof and a lot of the sides are all
riveted in place. In your opinion/recollection, if turn it over and
rivet
the bottom skins to the bulkheads before I fit the floor channels will
it
come back to haunt me? I know I need to leave a couple of rivets out
each
side so they aren't in the way of the corner wraps and I know not to
rivet
into the forward end since there will be another skin to join there.
Would
just like to stabilize the whole thing before installing the floor
channels.

Thanks for your input!!

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Cabin area / fus 39,40

them
began
to
no
I
get
as
a
and
stuff
and
first floor do?
channels
12.15.1
stainless

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