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[rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

https://www.murphybuilders.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6760

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[rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:07 am
by Robert and Olga Johnson
Hi Rich: I never added one to my Rebel (652) and did not need it either.
There was the normal tendency to turn left (O320) in cruise, but I corrected
that by increasing the spring tension on the right rudder pedal. Simple and
effective. I still needed additional right rudder on take off but that is
normal anyway. The only way around that is an electric or adjustable trim on
the rudder, but personally I do not like playing with trim all the time -
that's what flying is all about - YOU controlling the airplane in it's
various flying configurations. That's MHO. - Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Dodson" <r_dodson@yahoo.com>
To: "Rebel Listserve" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:34 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Gents,

I am moving along on the rudder construction. Just about have it all
drilled and getting ready to preserve it before assembly. Thanks for the
tips! I believe I have managed to deconflict my rivet spacing on the end
caps

I noticed on Deiter's very nice online builder's log that he attached a
trim tab (the good old fashioned manual type - just bend it to suit) to
the trailing edge. It looks good. Before I go ahead and fabricate one of
those, I was wondering what the opinion was from the more experienced
Rebel crowd.

Is it necessary? Nice to have? Or simply "a good thing" as Martha
Stewart would say?

Thanks for the help!
Rich Dodson
Virginia Beach, VA
Rebel 806R




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[rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:07 am
by Walter Klatt
Rich, I would wait until you are flying before deciding on rudder trim. I
don't have it on mine and don't need it. But I do have my vertical fin
offset.

While I have electric elevator trim, I never use it either. I could have got
away with just a fixed trim tab on the elevator. And if you mount your hor
stab as per Wayne's instructions (somewhere in the archives), you wouldn't
need that either. Unlike many airplanes, the Rebel doesn't require elevator
trim adjustments during different flight attitudes and speeds.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Robert
and Olga Johnson
Sent: August 29, 2006 6:01 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Hi Rich: I never added one to my Rebel (652) and did not need it either.
There was the normal tendency to turn left (O320) in cruise, but I corrected

that by increasing the spring tension on the right rudder pedal. Simple and
effective. I still needed additional right rudder on take off but that is
normal anyway. The only way around that is an electric or adjustable trim on

the rudder, but personally I do not like playing with trim all the time -
that's what flying is all about - YOU controlling the airplane in it's
various flying configurations. That's MHO. - Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Dodson" <r_dodson@yahoo.com>
To: "Rebel Listserve" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:34 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Gents,

I am moving along on the rudder construction. Just about have it all
drilled and getting ready to preserve it before assembly. Thanks for the
tips! I believe I have managed to deconflict my rivet spacing on the end
caps

I noticed on Deiter's very nice online builder's log that he attached a
trim tab (the good old fashioned manual type - just bend it to suit) to
the trailing edge. It looks good. Before I go ahead and fabricate one of
those, I was wondering what the opinion was from the more experienced
Rebel crowd.

Is it necessary? Nice to have? Or simply "a good thing" as Martha
Stewart would say?

Thanks for the help!
Rich Dodson
Virginia Beach, VA
Rebel 806R




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[rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:07 am
by Garry Wright
While I basically agree with Walter on the Rebel's lack of need for
elevator trim, I do find a need for it - not much - but with widely
varying loads, and big differences in airspeed, FOKM requires a small
amount of elevator trim to completely eliminate stick pressures. It does
this with both wheels and amphibs so it is sometimes necessary. I too do
not have any rudder trim. If one wanted to get away without the weight
of the trim system, one could probably do it with a fixed tab for most
flight regimes on FOKM too.

I may be overly sensitive to stick pressures having been weaned on a
plane with effective electric trims. I'm not sure I would put it on if I
did not have it.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 18:17 -0700, Walter Klatt wrote:
Rich, I would wait until you are flying before deciding on rudder trim. I
don't have it on mine and don't need it. But I do have my vertical fin
offset.

While I have electric elevator trim, I never use it either. I could have got
away with just a fixed trim tab on the elevator. And if you mount your hor
stab as per Wayne's instructions (somewhere in the archives), you wouldn't
need that either. Unlike many airplanes, the Rebel doesn't require elevator
trim adjustments during different flight attitudes and speeds.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Robert
and Olga Johnson
Sent: August 29, 2006 6:01 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Hi Rich: I never added one to my Rebel (652) and did not need it either.
There was the normal tendency to turn left (O320) in cruise, but I corrected

that by increasing the spring tension on the right rudder pedal. Simple and
effective. I still needed additional right rudder on take off but that is
normal anyway. The only way around that is an electric or adjustable trim on

the rudder, but personally I do not like playing with trim all the time -
that's what flying is all about - YOU controlling the airplane in it's
various flying configurations. That's MHO. - Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Dodson" <r_dodson@yahoo.com>
To: "Rebel Listserve" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:34 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Gents,

I am moving along on the rudder construction. Just about have it all
drilled and getting ready to preserve it before assembly. Thanks for the
tips! I believe I have managed to deconflict my rivet spacing on the end
caps

I noticed on Deiter's very nice online builder's log that he attached a
trim tab (the good old fashioned manual type - just bend it to suit) to
the trailing edge. It looks good. Before I go ahead and fabricate one of
those, I was wondering what the opinion was from the more experienced
Rebel crowd.

Is it necessary? Nice to have? Or simply "a good thing" as Martha
Stewart would say?

Thanks for the help!
Rich Dodson
Virginia Beach, VA
Rebel 806R




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[rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:07 am
by Walter Klatt
I think that c of g can vary more on wheels than on floats with different
loads, but agree that does affect elevator trim slightly and have noticed it
the odd time when I had a big load in back. Having said that, I can't
remember when I last used my elevator trim, probably not in the last year.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Garry
Wright
Sent: August 29, 2006 7:02 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

While I basically agree with Walter on the Rebel's lack of need for
elevator trim, I do find a need for it - not much - but with widely
varying loads, and big differences in airspeed, FOKM requires a small
amount of elevator trim to completely eliminate stick pressures. It does
this with both wheels and amphibs so it is sometimes necessary. I too do
not have any rudder trim. If one wanted to get away without the weight
of the trim system, one could probably do it with a fixed tab for most
flight regimes on FOKM too.

I may be overly sensitive to stick pressures having been weaned on a
plane with effective electric trims. I'm not sure I would put it on if I
did not have it.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 18:17 -0700, Walter Klatt wrote:
Rich, I would wait until you are flying before deciding on rudder trim. I
don't have it on mine and don't need it. But I do have my vertical fin
offset.

While I have electric elevator trim, I never use it either. I could have
got
away with just a fixed trim tab on the elevator. And if you mount your hor
stab as per Wayne's instructions (somewhere in the archives), you wouldn't
need that either. Unlike many airplanes, the Rebel doesn't require
elevator
trim adjustments during different flight attitudes and speeds.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Robert
and Olga Johnson
Sent: August 29, 2006 6:01 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Hi Rich: I never added one to my Rebel (652) and did not need it either.
There was the normal tendency to turn left (O320) in cruise, but I
corrected
that by increasing the spring tension on the right rudder pedal. Simple
and
effective. I still needed additional right rudder on take off but that is
normal anyway. The only way around that is an electric or adjustable trim
on
the rudder, but personally I do not like playing with trim all the time -
that's what flying is all about - YOU controlling the airplane in it's
various flying configurations. That's MHO. - Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Dodson" <r_dodson@yahoo.com>
To: "Rebel Listserve" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:34 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Gents,

I am moving along on the rudder construction. Just about have it all
drilled and getting ready to preserve it before assembly. Thanks for
the
tips! I believe I have managed to deconflict my rivet spacing on the
end
caps

I noticed on Deiter's very nice online builder's log that he attached a
trim tab (the good old fashioned manual type - just bend it to suit) to
the trailing edge. It looks good. Before I go ahead and fabricate one
of
those, I was wondering what the opinion was from the more experienced
Rebel crowd.

Is it necessary? Nice to have? Or simply "a good thing" as Martha
Stewart would say?

Thanks for the help!
Rich Dodson
Virginia Beach, VA
Rebel 806R




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[rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:07 am
by Drew Dalgleish
I use trim in flight depending on load and speed. It only takes a little
bit to get to fly hans off. I used to trim for approach speed to landing
but haven't bothered to do that for ages.

At 07:16 PM 8/29/2006 -0700, you wrote:
I think that c of g can vary more on wheels than on floats with different
loads, but agree that does affect elevator trim slightly and have noticed it
the odd time when I had a big load in back. Having said that, I can't
remember when I last used my elevator trim, probably not in the last year.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Garry
Wright
Sent: August 29, 2006 7:02 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

While I basically agree with Walter on the Rebel's lack of need for
elevator trim, I do find a need for it - not much - but with widely
varying loads, and big differences in airspeed, FOKM requires a small
amount of elevator trim to completely eliminate stick pressures. It does
this with both wheels and amphibs so it is sometimes necessary. I too do
not have any rudder trim. If one wanted to get away without the weight
of the trim system, one could probably do it with a fixed tab for most
flight regimes on FOKM too.

I may be overly sensitive to stick pressures having been weaned on a
plane with effective electric trims. I'm not sure I would put it on if I
did not have it.

Garry

On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 18:17 -0700, Walter Klatt wrote:
Rich, I would wait until you are flying before deciding on rudder trim. I
don't have it on mine and don't need it. But I do have my vertical fin
offset.

While I have electric elevator trim, I never use it either. I could have
got
away with just a fixed trim tab on the elevator. And if you mount your hor
stab as per Wayne's instructions (somewhere in the archives), you wouldn't
need that either. Unlike many airplanes, the Rebel doesn't require
elevator
trim adjustments during different flight attitudes and speeds.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Robert
and Olga Johnson
Sent: August 29, 2006 6:01 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Hi Rich: I never added one to my Rebel (652) and did not need it either.
There was the normal tendency to turn left (O320) in cruise, but I
corrected
that by increasing the spring tension on the right rudder pedal. Simple
and
effective. I still needed additional right rudder on take off but that is
normal anyway. The only way around that is an electric or adjustable trim
on
the rudder, but personally I do not like playing with trim all the time -
that's what flying is all about - YOU controlling the airplane in it's
various flying configurations. That's MHO. - Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Dodson" <r_dodson@yahoo.com>
To: "Rebel Listserve" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:34 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rudder Trim Tab

Gents,

I am moving along on the rudder construction. Just about have it all
drilled and getting ready to preserve it before assembly. Thanks for
the
tips! I believe I have managed to deconflict my rivet spacing on the
end
caps

I noticed on Deiter's very nice online builder's log that he attached a
trim tab (the good old fashioned manual type - just bend it to suit) to
the trailing edge. It looks good. Before I go ahead and fabricate one
of
those, I was wondering what the opinion was from the more experienced
Rebel crowd.

Is it necessary? Nice to have? Or simply "a good thing" as Martha
Stewart would say?

Thanks for the help!
Rich Dodson
Virginia Beach, VA
Rebel 806R




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Drew



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