The Murphy Builders Site

At 09:55 PM 8/7/2006 -0500, you wrote:

Hi all,
I recently read a comment by Wayne about cheating and running the fuel

lines above the door and down the forward door post. This is what I did and
I really like the way it came out. Has any one had any experience with this
not working out well in a gravity system?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

piper did that on tri-pacers and had to plachard them prohibitting take off
with less than about half tanks. Fuel doesn't like to flow uphill and the
climb angle of a rebel can be really steep. I suspect you might be
dissappointed when you do your flow test.
Drew



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Mike ,, I don't know for sure (if this is what Wayne ment for sure) but I
would think he was referring to the lines running up hill on a take off
situation. If fuel was low you could easily encounter problems. Just my
opinion as to why you wouldn't want to do it this way... Dale SR-033
----- Original Message -----
From:




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

The Tri-Pacer/Pacer was a little different in that the forward pickup on the
right tank went down the front door post but the main or rear fuel pickup on
the right tank went down behind the door all the way to a belly drain in the
floor then forward along the floor and then way back up to tee into the one
coming down from the front door post at the bottom of the instrument panel.
Then over under the panel to the selector valve.
In anycase it doesn't seem like you would get much (any?)pressure in the
three point attitude if the fuel line runs forward and gets above the fuel in
the tank. Maybe the line stays below it? Not seeing what it looks like it
doesn't sound like it would be too good. I know it would not work on my
Moose.

Scott

On 8/7/2006 7:02 PM, drewjan@cabletv.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> At 09:55 PM 8/7/2006 -0500, you wrote:
-> >Hi all,
-> >I recently read a comment by Wayne about cheating and running the fuel
-> lines above the door and down the forward door post. This is what I did
and
-> I really like the way it came out. Has any one had any experience with this
-> not working out well in a gravity system?
-> >Thanks,
-> >Mike Betti
-> >771E
->
-> piper did that on tri-pacers and had to plachard them prohibitting take off
-> with less than about half tanks. Fuel doesn't like to flow uphill and the
-> climb angle of a rebel can be really steep. I suspect you might be
-> dissappointed when you do your flow test.
-> Drew





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with the others, I think you will be disappointed in the fuel flow.

FWIW

On 8/8/06, sa@dcsol.com <sa@dcsol.com> wrote:

The Tri-Pacer/Pacer was a little different in that the forward pickup on the
right tank went down the front door post but the main or rear fuel pickup on
the right tank went down behind the door all the way to a belly drain in the
floor then forward along the floor and then way back up to tee into the one
coming down from the front door post at the bottom of the instrument panel.
Then over under the panel to the selector valve.
In anycase it doesn't seem like you would get much (any?)pressure in the
three point attitude if the fuel line runs forward and gets above the fuel in
the tank. Maybe the line stays below it? Not seeing what it looks like it
doesn't sound like it would be too good. I know it would not work on my
Moose.

Scott

On 8/7/2006 7:02 PM, drewjan@cabletv.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> At 09:55 PM 8/7/2006 -0500, you wrote:
-> >Hi all,
-> >I recently read a comment by Wayne about cheating and running the fuel
-> lines above the door and down the forward door post. This is what I did
and
-> I really like the way it came out. Has any one had any experience with this
-> not working out well in a gravity system?
-> >Thanks,
-> >Mike Betti
-> >771E
->
-> piper did that on tri-pacers and had to plachard them prohibitting take off
-> with less than about half tanks. Fuel doesn't like to flow uphill and the
-> climb angle of a rebel can be really steep. I suspect you might be
-> dissappointed when you do your flow test.
-> Drew





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Mike !

I'm surprised you did that, with all the comments in the archive
that it is not a good idea ! That approach has been tried several
times, right back to the early 90's-You will definitely have problems -
my lines also run forward, and no fuel would flow on climb or low
fuel situations if it weren't for the ram air tubes on top of the
fuel caps. I really don't like these, for many reasons, and would
not suggest this route --- but it was the only solution at the time.
(I didn't build this Rebel ...)

You have another option - just run a line down behind the door
and along the side, on top of the inside wraps. You can cover it with
a Lexan 'witches hat' you can bend up, for protection. This will
give good flow, avoid problems, and be easily accessible for
replacement, if ever needed. Several builders have done this,
rather than running lines under the floor, where they can't be
inspected.
--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 08 August 2006 02:55 am, Mike Betti wrote:

Hi all,
I recently read a comment by Wayne about cheating and running the fuel lines

above the door and down the forward door post. This is what I did and I
really like the way it came out. Has any one had any experience with this not
working out well in a gravity system?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

It's possible it may work but I can see in the climb attitude with 1/2
tanks, I will be getting fuel via siphon. The tanks are still higher than
the engine, but if I slosh and loose siphon, :(
I hate doing things over! It looked so good.........and I hate being a test
pilot.
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz17086@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel lines

Hi Mike ,, I don't know for sure (if this is what Wayne ment for sure) but
I
would think he was referring to the lines running up hill on a take off
situation. If fuel was low you could easily encounter problems. Just my
opinion as to why you wouldn't want to do it this way... Dale SR-033
----- Original Message -----
From:




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks,
I'm all for exposed plumbing. Do I need to put a tee'd down line for drain
at the 90 degree angle where it turns to come forward on the corner wraps?
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel lines

Hi Mike !

I'm surprised you did that, with all the comments in the archive
that it is not a good idea ! That approach has been tried several
times, right back to the early 90's-You will definitely have problems -
my lines also run forward, and no fuel would flow on climb or low
fuel situations if it weren't for the ram air tubes on top of the
fuel caps. I really don't like these, for many reasons, and would
not suggest this route --- but it was the only solution at the time.
(I didn't build this Rebel ...)

You have another option - just run a line down behind the door
and along the side, on top of the inside wraps. You can cover it with
a Lexan 'witches hat' you can bend up, for protection. This will
give good flow, avoid problems, and be easily accessible for
replacement, if ever needed. Several builders have done this,
rather than running lines under the floor, where they can't be
inspected.
--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 08 August 2006 02:55 am, Mike Betti wrote:

Hi all,
I recently read a comment by Wayne about cheating and running the fuel
lines

above the door and down the forward door post. This is what I did and I
really like the way it came out. Has any one had any experience with this
not
working out well in a gravity system?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mike it all goes back to the old saying if it looks to good to be true it
usually is. Not picking on you here just trying to get other guys to look
at all angles of things before they do them a certain way..
Planning on having a 1/2 a tank to fly is a good idea but , here is a
scenario that could happen, you take off with say left tank on with a
partial tank when climbing out for some unknown reason you have to make a
turn to the left, fuel leaves outlet for an instant and now you have no
siphon.
You have worked so hard to get where you are, I am sure you will do the
right thing.. Dale SR-033




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

You just MIGHT not have to ---- if you can start the curve
high enough, the low point just might turn out to be up front ! ;-)
That is, if the line slopes down the corner wraps enough ...
sure wouldn't want the extra joints if they could be avoided !

Can't say if that will work on the Elite, but it's worth a
bit of fiddling .... :-) (maybe with string first ??)

Worst case, guess you would need the drains ...
--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 09 August 2006 01:56 am, Mike Betti wrote:

Thanks,
I'm all for exposed plumbing. Do I need to put a tee'd down line for drain
at the 90 degree angle where it turns to come forward on the corner wraps?
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel lines

Hi Mike !

I'm surprised you did that, with all the comments in the archive
that it is not a good idea ! That approach has been tried several
times, right back to the early 90's-You will definitely have problems -
my lines also run forward, and no fuel would flow on climb or low
fuel situations if it weren't for the ram air tubes on top of the
fuel caps. I really don't like these, for many reasons, and would
not suggest this route --- but it was the only solution at the time.
(I didn't build this Rebel ...)

You have another option - just run a line down behind the door
and along the side, on top of the inside wraps. You can cover it with
a Lexan 'witches hat' you can bend up, for protection. This will
give good flow, avoid problems, and be easily accessible for
replacement, if ever needed. Several builders have done this,
rather than running lines under the floor, where they can't be
inspected.
--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 08 August 2006 02:55 am, Mike Betti wrote:

Hi all,
I recently read a comment by Wayne about cheating and running the fuel
lines

above the door and down the forward door post. This is what I did and I
really like the way it came out. Has any one had any experience with this
not
working out well in a gravity system?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Organization: InterBIZ, and Patterson Systems
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 01:51:04 +0000
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel lines

Mike:

I think that Roger Hoffman did it the way bobp mentioned.

Look through his photo set at: http://tincantimes.dcsol.com/

GREAT ideas and workmanship! (not to mention he is getting close to finish).

Over-and-out . . .

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662
Lake Tapps, Washington USA

You have another option - just run a line down behind the door
and along the side, on top of the inside wraps. You can cover it with
a Lexan 'witches hat' you can bend up, for protection. This will
give good flow, avoid problems, and be easily accessible for
replacement, if ever needed. Several builders have done this,
rather than running lines under the floor, where they can't be
inspected.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ralph and Susan: I have uploaded a picture of my fuel line run that was
incorporated in both Rebel 652 and 725. It is under 206 Rebel fus. or just
look up recent - Fuel line. This method results in a one piece fuel line
from the shut off to the gascolator with no need for a drain sump. The flow
is all down hill to the gascolator even in the sitting position. My fuel
flow tests resulted in 36 GPH on a single line and 54 GPH running both and
that was with only 20 litres of fuel in each tank. The only down side to
this installation is the fuel lines are exposed, however I did not find it
being a problem as you are actually climbing over this point on entry and
exit. Also makes easy inspection. Best regards Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:44 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] fuel lines

Our Elite has the 8:00 tires and the Moose tailwheel. Fuel line not yet
run but it will go to rear and down behind the door, then forward just
below door sill to front. We looked at avoiding a low point sump at the
rear of the door and could not see how it can be done without a sump. We
will put a sump in every low point. May not be necessary but I will not
take the chance.We get too much condensation here in South Carolina. An
additional concern is the oncoming possibility of alchohol in the mogas
and
the potential water problems that brings.
Rallph Baker



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Bob, this is quite timely as I'm just about to run my lines.

I assume you just 'T'd the lines inside the firewall before going to
the gascolator?

Cheers
Jim
Rebel 333

Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:

Hi Ralph and Susan: I have uploaded a picture of my fuel line run that was
incorporated in both Rebel 652 and 725. It is under 206 Rebel fus. or just
look up recent - Fuel line. This method results in a one piece fuel line
from the shut off to the gascolator with no need for a drain sump. The flow
is all down hill to the gascolator even in the sitting position. My fuel
flow tests resulted in 36 GPH on a single line and 54 GPH running both and
that was with only 20 litres of fuel in each tank. The only down side to
this installation is the fuel lines are exposed, however I did not find it
being a problem as you are actually climbing over this point on entry and
exit. Also makes easy inspection. Best regards Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:44 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] fuel lines

Our Elite has the 8:00 tires and the Moose tailwheel. Fuel line not yet
run but it will go to rear and down behind the door, then forward just
below door sill to front. We looked at avoiding a low point sump at the
rear of the door and could not see how it can be done without a sump. We
will put a sump in every low point. May not be necessary but I will not
take the chance.We get too much condensation here in South Carolina. An
additional concern is the oncoming possibility of alchohol in the mogas
and
the potential water problems that brings.
Rallph Baker



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes Jim, That is exactly what I did. (twice)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] fuel lines

Thanks Bob, this is quite timely as I'm just about to run my lines.

I assume you just 'T'd the lines inside the firewall before going to
the gascolator?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure on the Elite if by following the door opening that I will have a low point behind the door or not. My airplane is on blocks yet so I can't check, but I like the routing. Need to go home and study this more.
Mike Betti
771E

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:23:09 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Thanks Bob, this is quite timely as I'm just about to run my lines.

I assume you just 'T'd the lines inside the firewall before going to
the gascolator?

Cheers
Jim
Rebel 333

Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:

Hi Ralph and Susan: I have uploaded a picture of my fuel line run that was
incorporated in both Rebel 652 and 725. It is under 206 Rebel fus. or just
look up recent - Fuel line. This method results in a one piece fuel line
from the shut off to the gascolator with no need for a drain sump. The flow
is all down hill to the gascolator even in the sitting position. My fuel
flow tests resulted in 36 GPH on a single line and 54 GPH running both and
that was with only 20 litres of fuel in each tank. The only down side to
this installation is the fuel lines are exposed, however I did not find it
being a problem as you are actually climbing over this point on entry and
exit. Also makes easy inspection. Best regards Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:44 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] fuel lines

Our Elite has the 8:00 tires and the Moose tailwheel. Fuel line not yet
run but it will go to rear and down behind the door, then forward just
below door sill to front. We looked at avoiding a low point sump at the
rear of the door and could not see how it can be done without a sump. We
will put a sump in every low point. May not be necessary but I will not
take the chance.We get too much condensation here in South Carolina. An
additional concern is the oncoming possibility of alchohol in the mogas
and
the potential water problems that brings.
Rallph Baker



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I was confused. I was thinking of something someone said in response to
plumbing a floor mounted selector. He said not to have the line run down
hill from the selector to the gascolator, because air could be introduced at
the gascolator and be trapped at the selector. At least I think that was the
jist of it.
What you guys are talking about would be different, because any air could
get all the way back up to the tank.
Jesse

From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz17086@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel lines
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:23:35 -0400

On all factory planes the gascolator is the lowest point for dirt and water
to be trapped and extracted. Dale SR-033
----- Original Message -----




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------