The Murphy Builders Site

Thanks for the suggestion, Ralph. What's your experience with the real
world working time (pot life) once you mix some up? I gather by "all
exposed rivets" you're filling side & bottom skin rivets as well. I
realize you don't know yet, but I wonder how much filling all the rivets
will contribute to drag reduction (slipperiness) as compared to paint
alone. Hurry up and finish that thing and let us know! :-)

Also, FWIW, it looks like I referenced the wrong Hysol product in my
original post. The local painter probably was referring to their EPL0151
epoxy instead of the glue. Duh.


Ralph Baker wrote:

We have used Super Fill in all of our exposed rivets applied with a popsicle stick. Light, and easy to sand smooth. You do have to be careful to get it well down in the hole. Quite laborious but looks good and would do it again. Still under construction so no actual operating experience.
Ralph Baker

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ron !

This will likely make me unpopular, but .....

If you are hoping for ANY perceivable speed benefit from filling
rivets - forget it ! Having flown lots of Rebels, with and without
filled rivets, and paint - no noticeable difference. One had carefully
filled-over flush rivets on the leading edges - and was 2 - 3 mph slower
than one with regular rivets just painted ! There can easily be that much
variation between individual airplanes, so I wouldn't blame the rivets ...
but it WAS a lot of extra work for nothing.

While it might be aesthetically pleasing, filling the rivets
is a LOT of work, and just adds weight. If you spray paint well
with a HVLP rig, the paint should flow into the rivet heads & seal
well, if the prep is well done. Proper prep is the key to any paint
job !

Our second and third Rebels sat outside year 'round - after more
than 10 years, there were maybe 2 or 3 rivets, if you searched a while,
that showed a spot of rust on the mandrel. I blame the painting done
with an old high-pressure system - those rivets didn't get any paint
in them because the blast reflected back from the pockets in the rivet heads.
Southern Ontario winters and springs can be pretty wet too ... :-)

If you really want to, one of our builders used the EP-430 Epoxy
Primer in agricultural syringes to fill the heads - took a couple
of applications. He always kept a syringe handy for visitors to
the hangar - "Ain't every day a kid gets to whitewash a fence !" ;-)

--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 05 August 2006 04:42 am, Ron Shannon wrote:

A local paint specialist recommended filling the rivets on the top
surfaces with something like Hysol (http://tinyurl.com/sy4xs) before
painting them, to help preclude moisture collecting in the tops of the
pulled rivets. We are on the Pacific coast here, where salty fog and
other ocean moisture regularly moves inland off the water, but
obviously, filling thousands of rivets on the top surfaces would be a
lot of work.

Does anyone else have experience doing this? Pros and cons, thoughts and
opinions?

Ron
254R
http://n254mr.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Bob. My interest in this was really only for additional
corrosion protection and like you, I doubted rivet filling would give
more than marginal additional insurance there, at best. Although I
admire those who (like Ralph and unlike me) have the necessary
perseverance, thanks for confirming I could avoid all that work without
too many regrets down the road, especially with a quality paint job.

The performance issue -- that was just daydreamin'. :-)

Dunno why you might become unpopular. Did you did something
controversial/notorious at Oshkosh after I left? :-)



Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Ron !

This will likely make me unpopular, but .....

If you are hoping for ANY perceivable speed benefit from filling
rivets - forget it ! Having flown lots of Rebels, with and without
filled rivets, and paint - no noticeable difference. One had carefully
filled-over flush rivets on the leading edges - and was 2 - 3 mph slower
than one with regular rivets just painted ! There can easily be that much
variation between individual airplanes, so I wouldn't blame the rivets ...
but it WAS a lot of extra work for nothing.

While it might be aesthetically pleasing, filling the rivets
is a LOT of work, and just adds weight. If you spray paint well
with a HVLP rig, the paint should flow into the rivet heads & seal
well, if the prep is well done. Proper prep is the key to any paint
job !

Our second and third Rebels sat outside year 'round - after more
than 10 years, there were maybe 2 or 3 rivets, if you searched a while,
that showed a spot of rust on the mandrel. I blame the painting done
with an old high-pressure system - those rivets didn't get any paint
in them because the blast reflected back from the pockets in the rivet heads.
Southern Ontario winters and springs can be pretty wet too ... :-)

If you really want to, one of our builders used the EP-430 Epoxy
Primer in agricultural syringes to fill the heads - took a couple
of applications. He always kept a syringe handy for visitors to
the hangar - "Ain't every day a kid gets to whitewash a fence !" ;-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ralph

What is this "super fill"?

Dave

Ralph Baker wrote:

We have used Super Fill in all of our exposed rivets applied with a popsicle stick. Light, and easy to sand smooth. You do have to be careful to get it well down in the hole. Quite laborious but looks good and would do it again. Still under construction so no actual operating experience.
Ralph Baker

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------