The Murphy Builders Site

Ian, I had fitted a cabin heater box I got from Aicrft Spruce and ran a duct
from a muff on my exhaust. I used it winters up to about -15C and worked OK.
I was planning to add a "Y" and run a second duct up under the panel to
throw a bit of heat up to the windshield.
My buddy has a better set up though, he used a small automotive heater with
a fan and can regulate the speed and heat setting, works great off the
coolant ssystem we have. If I was planning to fly more in winters here,
definetly would go with that option.

Aurele
R063

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Donaldson" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:58 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel-Rotax cabin heater

G'day

Winter has descended on us in the Land Down Under and I have finally
decided
to fit a cabin heater. Normally we would could use air conditioning, but
this year it seems colder than usual and I want some heat!

My Rebel is powered with the Rotax 100hp engine and I would appreciate
some
input from anyone who has fitted a heater to their plane.

Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson




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G'day Aurele

I had thought of a muff on the exhaust but it seemed too complicated for me
to do.

What I had thought to do was to use a small aluminum radiator, that was once
used as an oil cooler, and just fit a few 12v computer cooling fans to it to
force the air through. It would be light and compact and should make enough
warmth.

Thankfully we never see the temperature extremes that you have and at the
worst it might get to freezing for a short while in the morning. Maybe I am
getting soft in my old age!

Could you ask your friend just how he plumbed his heater into the water
lines? I had a look there and got mightily confused!

thanks and regards

Ian


: Ian, I had fitted a cabin heater box I got from Aicrft Spruce and ran a
duct
: from a muff on my exhaust. .
: My buddy has a better set up though, he used a small automotive heater
with
: a fan




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Ian, sounds like your idea might work and probably much cheaper than my
buddies setup, those auto heaters don't come cheap.
I'll drop him a ring and find out how he connected the lines, never bothered
to have a good look at the plumbing.

Best to you,
Aurele

P.S. Might be a good idea to dress up a little warmer, I might have a spare
snowmobile suit I can send you. LOL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Donaldson" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel-Rotax cabin heater

G'day Aurele

I had thought of a muff on the exhaust but it seemed too complicated for
me
to do.

What I had thought to do was to use a small aluminum radiator, that was
once
used as an oil cooler, and just fit a few 12v computer cooling fans to it
to
force the air through. It would be light and compact and should make
enough
warmth.

Thankfully we never see the temperature extremes that you have and at the
worst it might get to freezing for a short while in the morning. Maybe I
am
getting soft in my old age!

Could you ask your friend just how he plumbed his heater into the water
lines? I had a look there and got mightily confused!

thanks and regards

Ian


: Ian, I had fitted a cabin heater box I got from Aicrft Spruce and ran a
duct
: from a muff on my exhaust. .
: My buddy has a better set up though, he used a small automotive heater
with
: a fan




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"SNOW" or as we call it "white shit" is damp, cold, sticks to everything,
you have shovel it for 6 months, etc. etc.
On the other hand, it's great to ski on, snowmobile and ice fish if you're
crazy enough as we are to stay outdoors and actually endure it.

I'll get back to you on the plumbing.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Donaldson" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel-Rotax cabin heater

G'day again
I just had a look at Aircraft Spruce and they offer a whole range of
options. I had never thought to look there before, but they don't have
auto
type of fittings.

I would appreciate it if you would find out how he plumbed it in.

As for the snowmobile suit there is one problem. What is snow?


regards

Ian

: Ian, sounds like your idea might work and probably much cheaper than my
: buddies setup, those auto heaters don't come cheap.
: I'll drop him a ring and find out how he connected the lines, never
bothered
: to have a good look at the plumbing.
:
: P.S. Might be a good idea to dress up a little warmer, I might have a
spare
: snowmobile suit I can send you. LOL
:




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Hi Ian !

One thought I had, but never tried, was -- you've already GOT the
radiators (water & oil) - why not just run a SCAT tube back from the
back of one, into the cabin ??!!! The air coming out might not be
toooo warm, but it will have SOME heat - maybe enough to take the
chill off .... (since you don't really HAVE winter ! ;-) :-) )

We actually have 4 seasons here - almost winter, winter, still winter,
and road construction/repairs. :-) :-)

I did pick up an aluminum auto heater, with fan & mounting brackets,
from Princess Auto (a surplus jobber), for something like $25. Easy
to tee off the smaller hoses to the pump - one on in side, one on out.
Actually, a "Y" would be better than a T - the angle would force the
flow through the heater core ... and suck it out the other side.

--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 20 June 2006 12:26 am, Ian Donaldson wrote:

G'day Aurele

I had thought of a muff on the exhaust but it seemed too complicated for me
to do.

What I had thought to do was to use a small aluminum radiator, that was once
used as an oil cooler, and just fit a few 12v computer cooling fans to it to
force the air through. It would be light and compact and should make enough
warmth.

Thankfully we never see the temperature extremes that you have and at the
worst it might get to freezing for a short while in the morning. Maybe I am
getting soft in my old age!

Could you ask your friend just how he plumbed his heater into the water
lines? I had a look there and got mightily confused!

thanks and regards

Ian


: Ian, I had fitted a cabin heater box I got from Aicrft Spruce and ran a
duct
: from a muff on my exhaust. .
: My buddy has a better set up though, he used a small automotive heater
with
: a fan

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G'day Bruce


Thanks for your reply.

I had sort of intended doing that. As I really don't want to reinvent the
wheel I like to get some ideas from others and thanks for your suggestions.


regards

Ian
:
: You have water cooled heads and a radiator for your 912s. Tee off one of
these radiator hose lines and run it into the cabin. Connect a small
radiator (or two) to it and attach a small computer type fan to the radiator
to blow air through it. They work great! Any Kit manufacturer that sells the
912 will most likely have a heater kit they will sell you if you don't want
to piece it together.
:

:




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G'day Bob
:

why not just run a SCAT tube back from the back of one, into the cabin
??!!!

There you go, another idea that I had noy thought of!

: We actually have 4 seasons here - almost winter, winter, still winter,
: and road construction/repairs. :-) :-)

Well we still have four seasons, but mostly they are all hot and dry. In
fact we are in the eighth year of a drought and our water reserves are down
to less than 40% and no rain in sight. Oh well I might just have to drink
my whisky neat!


. Easy to tee off the smaller hoses to the pump - one on in side, one on
out.
: Actually, a "Y" would be better than a T - the angle would force the
: flow through the heater core ... and suck it out the other side.

I am leaning towards a water heated radiator and I guess that I will just
have to get into the engine compartment and see what I need to do.

I checked out your site. If you can give me a guarantee that I will look
like the male model in the pictures and that I will attract young birds I
will buy a truckfull!


regards and thanks

Ian

: --
: ......bobp
: http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
: http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
:







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G'day again
I just had a look at Aircraft Spruce and they offer a whole range of
options. I had never thought to look there before, but they don't have auto
type of fittings.

I would appreciate it if you would find out how he plumbed it in.

As for the snowmobile suit there is one problem. What is snow?


regards

Ian

: Ian, sounds like your idea might work and probably much cheaper than my
: buddies setup, those auto heaters don't come cheap.
: I'll drop him a ring and find out how he connected the lines, never
bothered
: to have a good look at the plumbing.
:
: P.S. Might be a good idea to dress up a little warmer, I might have a
spare
: snowmobile suit I can send you. LOL
:




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Hi Ian,

You have water cooled heads and a radiator for your 912s. Tee off one of these radiator hose lines and run it into the cabin. Connect a small radiator (or two) to it and attach a small computer type fan to the radiator to blow air through it. They work great! Any Kit manufacturer that sells the 912 will most likely have a heater kit they will sell you if you don't want to piece it together.

Bruce G




--Original Message-----

From: Ian Donaldson <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Jun 19, 2006 6:58 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel-Rotax cabin heater

G'day

Winter has descended on us in the Land Down Under and I have finally decided
to fit a cabin heater. Normally we would could use air conditioning, but
this year it seems colder than usual and I want some heat!

My Rebel is powered with the Rotax 100hp engine and I would appreciate some
input from anyone who has fitted a heater to their plane.

Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson




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________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com



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Ian, I found my instructions and will send you a scanned copy directly to
your email.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ian
Donaldson
Sent: June 21, 2006 5:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel-Rotax cabin heater

G'day Walter


Now that is a coincidence!

I purchased exactly the same thermostat, but it came without any fitting
instructions. I have been in touch with the manufacturer and despite them
saying that they would fax the instructions I have had no response so far.

The way to fit it seems obvious enough, but to be sure, would you remember
just how you plumbed yours in?


Regards and thanks


Ian Donaldson


: Here is the oil thermostat that I use with my 912 on another airplane.
Works
: pretty well.
:
: http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page14.html
:
: Walter
:




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Just curious -does the 912 actually have a water pump? I was told (by a
fellow with a fair bit of experience) that it is only gravity
circulation which might make plumbing a heater tricky if true??

The duct off the radiator seems to work well on a subaru as long as you
are sure no exhaust can find its way in.

On my soob I ran a 3.5 inch (about 85mm) duct from below the spinner to
a heater core so it was fed with fresh dry air instead of just
recirculating cabin air and moisture. I then added an oversize computer
type muffin fan to insure good heat while on the ground. Turns out the
air flow and heat is awesome on the ground even with the fan turned off
so the fan was not really needed in my setup. Taking a duct off the rad
would probably not really need a fan either.

Ken

Ian Donaldson wrote:

G'day Bob
:

why not just run a SCAT tube back from the back of one, into the cabin
??!!!

There you go, another idea that I had noy thought of!

: We actually have 4 seasons here - almost winter, winter, still winter,
: and road construction/repairs. :-) :-)

Well we still have four seasons, but mostly they are all hot and dry. In
fact we are in the eighth year of a drought and our water reserves are down
to less than 40% and no rain in sight. Oh well I might just have to drink
my whisky neat!


. Easy to tee off the smaller hoses to the pump - one on in side, one on
out.
: Actually, a "Y" would be better than a T - the angle would force the
: flow through the heater core ... and suck it out the other side.

I am leaning towards a water heated radiator and I guess that I will just
have to get into the engine compartment and see what I need to do.

I checked out your site. If you can give me a guarantee that I will look
like the male model in the pictures and that I will attract young birds I
will buy a truckfull!


regards and thanks

Ian

: --
: ......bobp
: http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
: http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
:

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The 912 definetly has a water pump for the record.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel-Rotax cabin heater

Just curious -does the 912 actually have a water pump? I was told (by a
fellow with a fair bit of experience) that it is only gravity
circulation which might make plumbing a heater tricky if true??

The duct off the radiator seems to work well on a subaru as long as you
are sure no exhaust can find its way in.

On my soob I ran a 3.5 inch (about 85mm) duct from below the spinner to
a heater core so it was fed with fresh dry air instead of just
recirculating cabin air and moisture. I then added an oversize computer
type muffin fan to insure good heat while on the ground. Turns out the
air flow and heat is awesome on the ground even with the fan turned off
so the fan was not really needed in my setup. Taking a duct off the rad
would probably not really need a fan either.

Ken

Ian Donaldson wrote:

G'day Bob
:

why not just run a SCAT tube back from the back of one, into the cabin
??!!!

There you go, another idea that I had noy thought of!

: We actually have 4 seasons here - almost winter, winter, still winter,
: and road construction/repairs. :-) :-)

Well we still have four seasons, but mostly they are all hot and dry. In
fact we are in the eighth year of a drought and our water reserves are
down
to less than 40% and no rain in sight. Oh well I might just have to drink
my whisky neat!


. Easy to tee off the smaller hoses to the pump - one on in side, one on
out.
: Actually, a "Y" would be better than a T - the angle would force the
: flow through the heater core ... and suck it out the other side.

I am leaning towards a water heated radiator and I guess that I will just
have to get into the engine compartment and see what I need to do.

I checked out your site. If you can give me a guarantee that I will look
like the male model in the pictures and that I will attract young birds I
will buy a truckfull!


regards and thanks

Ian

: --
: ......bobp
: http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
: http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
:

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Ken,

Yes, the 912 has a water pump. Have to check it every annual for leaks.

Bruce G

-----Original Message-----

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Sent: Jun 20, 2006 4:23 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel-Rotax cabin heater

Just curious -does the 912 actually have a water pump? I was told (by a
fellow with a fair bit of experience) that it is only gravity
circulation which might make plumbing a heater tricky if true??

The duct off the radiator seems to work well on a subaru as long as you
are sure no exhaust can find its way in.

On my soob I ran a 3.5 inch (about 85mm) duct from below the spinner to
a heater core so it was fed with fresh dry air instead of just
recirculating cabin air and moisture. I then added an oversize computer
type muffin fan to insure good heat while on the ground. Turns out the
air flow and heat is awesome on the ground even with the fan turned off
so the fan was not really needed in my setup. Taking a duct off the rad
would probably not really need a fan either.

Ken

Ian Donaldson wrote:

G'day Bob
:

why not just run a SCAT tube back from the back of one, into the cabin
??!!!

There you go, another idea that I had noy thought of!

: We actually have 4 seasons here - almost winter, winter, still winter,
: and road construction/repairs. :-) :-)

Well we still have four seasons, but mostly they are all hot and dry. In
fact we are in the eighth year of a drought and our water reserves are down
to less than 40% and no rain in sight. Oh well I might just have to drink
my whisky neat!


. Easy to tee off the smaller hoses to the pump - one on in side, one on
out.
: Actually, a "Y" would be better than a T - the angle would force the
: flow through the heater core ... and suck it out the other side.

I am leaning towards a water heated radiator and I guess that I will just
have to get into the engine compartment and see what I need to do.

I checked out your site. If you can give me a guarantee that I will look
like the male model in the pictures and that I will attract young birds I
will buy a truckfull!


regards and thanks

Ian

: --
: ......bobp
: http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
: http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
:

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Hi Ian !

From the recent feedback from Ken, the air duct from the rad or
oil cooler sounds like it works great ! Certainly be easier than
the plumbing for water...

I never hooked up my water heater, as I found the water system
on the 912 was very sensitive to small changes - only blocked off
about 1" or 2" of the rad in winter - any more caused drastic
increases.... So I was thinking that the extra fluid volume
to fill the heater, plus the extra curves in the piping and "Y"'s
might really confuse things. Chickened out !! Warmer clothing,
and lots of sunshine worked pretty well for most of 10 years. :-)

If I could guarantee the looks and the birds, I'd be flying my
own jet now !! ;-) I can tell you you'd feel more lively, and be
more healthy ! Not even sure if your government would let us ship
there - we now deliver to the door in Canada & the USA, but even here,
we can't ship across the border, it has to come from US warehouses
for the USA, and Canadian warehouses for Canada - different label
requirements !
Thanks for checking it out, anyway -- maybe one day ! :-)

--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 20 June 2006 03:48 am, Ian Donaldson wrote:

G'day Bob
:

why not just run a SCAT tube back from the back of one, into the cabin
??!!!

There you go, another idea that I had not thought of!

: We actually have 4 seasons here - almost winter, winter, still winter,
: and road construction/repairs. :-) :-)

Well we still have four seasons, but mostly they are all hot and dry. In
fact we are in the eighth year of a drought and our water reserves are down
to less than 40% and no rain in sight. Oh well I might just have to drink
my whisky neat!


. Easy to tee off the smaller hoses to the pump - one on in side, one on
out.
: Actually, a "Y" would be better than a T - the angle would force the
: flow through the heater core ... and suck it out the other side.

I am leaning towards a water heated radiator and I guess that I will just
have to get into the engine compartment and see what I need to do.

I checked out your site. If you can give me a guarantee that I will look
like the male model in the pictures and that I will attract young birds I
will buy a truckfull!


regards and thanks

Ian

: --
: ......bobp
: http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
: http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
:

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G'day Bob

I had never thought of using a duct directly from the radiator, but the way
the both the water radiator and oil cooler are mounted in my Rebel it may be
a difficult thing to do. But I will have a look when next I go to the
airfield.
I would hate to make big holes in the firewall and find that I did not get
enough heat!

I have given up with trying to get the amount of tape over the oil cooler
just right and I have an automotive oil thermostat that I am going to plumb
into the lines. At least it will keep the oil at reasonable level. I hope!


Certainly be easier than the plumbing for water...
:
: I never hooked up my water heater, as I found the water system: on the
912 was very sensitive to small changes - only blocked off: about 1" or 2"
of the rad in winter - any more caused drastic: increases....

I have a very large radiator that was supplied with the kit and I keep about
half of it close off except in the hottest of weather. I was tempted to put
an automotive radiator thermostat in the cooling system, but I have decided
that I will make up a simple flap set up that will fit in the inlet opening
of the cowl, and I will operate it with a cable from the cabin. as long as I
dont forget about it I think that it will work OK.



:! Not even sure if your government would let us ship there -

We have strange Customs practices. Maybe I should come over and pick up some
personally <grin>

I will have another look at it all this weekend.

Regards and thanks to all for their interest.


Ian







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