Corrosion Protection
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:40 pm
Hello: Everyone, I am also a new builder, in fact the tail section kit for
the Rebel should be arriving mid February. I plan on putting the Rebel on
Floats and I am trying to make a decision on corrosion protection for the
aircraft. In particular should I prime all of the interior components and
if so with what product. I know Murphy suggests using Zinc chromate on
joints and dipping rivets, but is that enough for the water ( I also hate
Zinc Chromate for spraying) . I am interested in anyone's opinion.
Thanks
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: list-server <list-server@dcsol.com>
To: randy@w5.net <randy@w5.net>
Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 12:02 AM
Subject: murphy-rebel Digest for 27 Jan 2000
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel
the Rebel should be arriving mid February. I plan on putting the Rebel on
Floats and I am trying to make a decision on corrosion protection for the
aircraft. In particular should I prime all of the interior components and
if so with what product. I know Murphy suggests using Zinc chromate on
joints and dipping rivets, but is that enough for the water ( I also hate
Zinc Chromate for spraying) . I am interested in anyone's opinion.
Thanks
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: list-server <list-server@dcsol.com>
To: randy@w5.net <randy@w5.net>
Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 12:02 AM
Subject: murphy-rebel Digest for 27 Jan 2000
the*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
murphy-rebel Digest for 27 Jan 2000
Topics covered in this issue include:
1: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
by Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
2: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
by Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
3: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
by Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
4: Phone /e-mail for John Hart
by David Fife <aircrafttips@yahoo.com>
5: RE: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
by Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
6: Re: All metal ailerons - Rebel??
by Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
7: Re: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
by klehman@albedo.net
8: Re: Instruments
by Clay Smith <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
9: Rebel 0145R
by "Frank Arndt" <farndt@xcelco.on.ca>
10: Re: Instruments
by Richard DeCiero <rsdec1@star.net>
11: Re: Instruments
by Richard DeCiero <rsdec1@star.net>
12: Re: Instruments
by Richard DeCiero <rsdec1@star.net>
13: Re: Instruments
by Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
14: Re: Rebel 0145R
by Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
15: Small engines
by AURELE LAVIGNE <alavigne@ntl.sympatico.ca>
16: Re: Instruments
by Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Message:0001 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
To: "'murphy-rebel@dcsol.com'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
The Elite is coming along nicely. I'm working on the right
wing after knocking down a wall in my crowded workshop.
But am having an attack of bolt hole edge distance
paranoia.
Things have gone well and I am now fitting the front and
rear spar fittings. These are the fittings that attach the
wing to the fuselage (W-119 and W-124 which I believe are
the same part numbers on the Rebel).
The front and rear spars are pre-punched for placing
the spar fittings. The pre-punched holes at the spar root
have the normal 5/16" edge distance found on most parts.
However, these holes get drilled and reamed for either
AN3 or AN4 bolts which would require at least 3/8" edge
distance (for AN3 bolts).
As these fittings seem *really* small (for attaching something
as important as the wing). And the number of bolts doing
the attaching also seems small, I'm making every attempt
to keep tolerances tight.
The factory parts all seem to be manufactured correctly. I know
there are extra doublers in this area. But why is edge distance
not a problem here, when it seems like you'd *really* like that
extra metal?
Also, the construction in this area does not seem to allow
inspection or replacement of the bolts holding the front spar
fitting. As I'll be on floats, I'd like to be able to inspect
and replace all bolts as they can corrode over time from
water and abuse (especially salt water). Am I misreading
the manual or are these bolts all torque 'em and forget 'em?
I checked Wray's online manual and the Elite looks almost
identical to the Rebel in this area so words of wisdom and
comfort will help me sleep better.
Thanks,
Eric Fogelin
Elite 645
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Message:0002 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
Eric, Torque 'em and Forget 'em, just like a Cessna or any other! Coat them
with epoxy chromate before installing so the water can't get in there! I
have fixed some pretty good wrecks (if you can call a wreck good). The wing
fittings have always been in perfect condition (after the fall) and I had
one where the cabin was narrowed at the rear attach fitting by 8", after
thewing tip dug into the ground. The wing fittings were just fine, although
thecompression of all three torque tubes jamming together cause the opposite
wing to be damaged inside also. The Rebel that went in the lake and
cartwheeled bent the right wing up like a boomerang, but all fittings were
left like new! In most aspects of flight there is a compression load on the
attach fittings and not tension. Hope this lets you sleep at night now,
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
To: 'murphy-rebel@dcsol.com' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 1:09 AM
Subject: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------The Elite is coming along nicely. I'm working on the right
wing after knocking down a wall in my crowded workshop.
But am having an attack of bolt hole edge distance
paranoia.
Things have gone well and I am now fitting the front and
rear spar fittings. These are the fittings that attach the
wing to the fuselage (W-119 and W-124 which I believe are
the same part numbers on the Rebel).
The front and rear spars are pre-punched for placing
the spar fittings. The pre-punched holes at the spar root
have the normal 5/16" edge distance found on most parts.
However, these holes get drilled and reamed for either
AN3 or AN4 bolts which would require at least 3/8" edge
distance (for AN3 bolts).
As these fittings seem *really* small (for attaching something
as important as the wing). And the number of bolts doing
the attaching also seems small, I'm making every attempt
to keep tolerances tight.
The factory parts all seem to be manufactured correctly. I know
there are extra doublers in this area. But why is edge distance
not a problem here, when it seems like you'd *really* like that
extra metal?
Also, the construction in this area does not seem to allow
inspection or replacement of the bolts holding the front spar
fitting. As I'll be on floats, I'd like to be able to inspect
and replace all bolts as they can corrode over time from
water and abuse (especially salt water). Am I misreading
the manual or are these bolts all torque 'em and forget 'em?
I checked Wray's online manual and the Elite looks almost
identical to the Rebel in this area so words of wisdom and
comfort will help me sleep better.
Thanks,
Eric Fogelin
Elite 645
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
3 Message:0003 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
To: "'murphy-rebel@dcsol.com'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
Thanks, Wayne. I'm feeling better already.
But just to follow-up. How about the edge distance problem?
On the Rebel, is the Root Rib Attach Bracket (W-161) flush
with the root end of the front spar? If yes, then the Rebel
doesn't have an edge distance problem as the W-119 Front
Spar Fitting Attachment will be bolted 15/32" back from the
root end of the front spar. My W-161 bracket overhangs
the root end due to the 5/16" pre-punched holes in the front
spar used to align W-161.
I've got email into Murphy on what, if any, differences there
are in this area between the Elite and Rebel. They seem
almost identical, but something seems wrong.
Your insight and experience has been a great aspect of
this internet group.
Thanks,
Eric
----------
From: Wayne G. O'Shea[SMTP:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Reply To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 5:29 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
Eric, Torque 'em and Forget 'em, just like a Cessna or any other! Coat them
with epoxy chromate before installing so the water can't get in there! I
have fixed some pretty good wrecks (if you can call a wreck good). The wing
fittings have always been in perfect condition (after the fall) and I had
one where the cabin was narrowed at the rear attach fitting by 8", after
thewing tip dug into the ground. The wing fittings were just fine, although
checkcompression of all three torque tubes jamming together cause the opposite
wing to be damaged inside also. The Rebel that went in the lake and
cartwheeled bent the right wing up like a boomerang, but all fittings were
left like new! In most aspects of flight there is a compression load on the
attach fittings and not tension. Hope this lets you sleep at night now,
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
To: 'murphy-rebel@dcsol.com' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 1:09 AM
Subject: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
*----------------------------------------------------*The Elite is coming along nicely. I'm working on the right
wing after knocking down a wall in my crowded workshop.
But am having an attack of bolt hole edge distance
paranoia.
Things have gone well and I am now fitting the front and
rear spar fittings. These are the fittings that attach the
wing to the fuselage (W-119 and W-124 which I believe are
the same part numbers on the Rebel).
The front and rear spars are pre-punched for placing
the spar fittings. The pre-punched holes at the spar root
have the normal 5/16" edge distance found on most parts.
However, these holes get drilled and reamed for either
AN3 or AN4 bolts which would require at least 3/8" edge
distance (for AN3 bolts).
As these fittings seem *really* small (for attaching something
as important as the wing). And the number of bolts doing
the attaching also seems small, I'm making every attempt
to keep tolerances tight.
The factory parts all seem to be manufactured correctly. I know
there are extra doublers in this area. But why is edge distance
not a problem here, when it seems like you'd *really* like that
extra metal?
Also, the construction in this area does not seem to allow
inspection or replacement of the bolts holding the front spar
fitting. As I'll be on floats, I'd like to be able to inspect
and replace all bolts as they can corrode over time from
water and abuse (especially salt water). Am I misreading
the manual or are these bolts all torque 'em and forget 'em?
I checked Wray's online manual and the Elite looks almost
identical to the Rebel in this area so words of wisdom and
comfort will help me sleep better.
Thanks,
Eric Fogelin
Elite 645
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Message:0004 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Fife <aircrafttips@yahoo.com>
Subject: Phone /e-mail for John Hart
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
To John Hart. Please give me a call. Need to discuss
wing tips with you.
If anyone knows where to reach John, please give me a
number. John is in Fresno, CA.
=====
Sincerely,
David K. Fife
3D Composite Aircraft Parts Inc.
1345 Merkle St.
Ortonville, MI. 48462
Phone 248-627-4367
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Message:0005 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
Eric,
I have a "spare" Rebel wing out in the hanger and will have a look at it
later tonight (it's -39c so not to keen tonight) or in the morning, to
themthe edge distance. I am working on a SR wing set right now in the shop and
it has very minimal E.D. for the two bolts that hold the Root rib to the
front spar. I know Murphy load tests their wings before offering to the
market (unlike some others) so I wouldn't worry too much about it. The only
thing to check is that when you put the ribs in place, is the distance
between each rib set equal (for and aft) all the way along, to prove the
predrilled holes are in the right location and that you didn't get a bad
front spar.
Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
To: 'murphy-rebel@dcsol.com' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
Thanks, Wayne. I'm feeling better already.
But just to follow-up. How about the edge distance problem?
On the Rebel, is the Root Rib Attach Bracket (W-161) flush
with the root end of the front spar? If yes, then the Rebel
doesn't have an edge distance problem as the W-119 Front
Spar Fitting Attachment will be bolted 15/32" back from the
root end of the front spar. My W-161 bracket overhangs
the root end due to the 5/16" pre-punched holes in the front
spar used to align W-161.
I've got email into Murphy on what, if any, differences there
are in this area between the Elite and Rebel. They seem
almost identical, but something seems wrong.
Your insight and experience has been a great aspect of
this internet group.
Thanks,
Eric
----------
From: Wayne G. O'Shea[SMTP:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Reply To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 5:29 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
Eric, Torque 'em and Forget 'em, just like a Cessna or any other! Coat
wingwith epoxy chromate before installing so the water can't get in there! I
have fixed some pretty good wrecks (if you can call a wreck good). The
thethefittings have always been in perfect condition (after the fall) and I had
one where the cabin was narrowed at the rear attach fitting by 8", afterthewing tip dug into the ground. The wing fittings were just fine, althoughcompression of all three torque tubes jamming together cause the opposite
wing to be damaged inside also. The Rebel that went in the lake and
cartwheeled bent the right wing up like a boomerang, but all fittings were
left like new! In most aspects of flight there is a compression load on
----------------------------------------------------------------------------attach fittings and not tension. Hope this lets you sleep at night now,
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Fogelin <ericfo@whidbey.com>
To: 'murphy-rebel@dcsol.com' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 1:09 AM
Subject: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
*----------------------------------------------------*The Elite is coming along nicely. I'm working on the right
wing after knocking down a wall in my crowded workshop.
But am having an attack of bolt hole edge distance
paranoia.
Things have gone well and I am now fitting the front and
rear spar fittings. These are the fittings that attach the
wing to the fuselage (W-119 and W-124 which I believe are
the same part numbers on the Rebel).
The front and rear spars are pre-punched for placing
the spar fittings. The pre-punched holes at the spar root
have the normal 5/16" edge distance found on most parts.
However, these holes get drilled and reamed for either
AN3 or AN4 bolts which would require at least 3/8" edge
distance (for AN3 bolts).
As these fittings seem *really* small (for attaching something
as important as the wing). And the number of bolts doing
the attaching also seems small, I'm making every attempt
to keep tolerances tight.
The factory parts all seem to be manufactured correctly. I know
there are extra doublers in this area. But why is edge distance
not a problem here, when it seems like you'd *really* like that
extra metal?
Also, the construction in this area does not seem to allow
inspection or replacement of the bolts holding the front spar
fitting. As I'll be on floats, I'd like to be able to inspect
and replace all bolts as they can corrode over time from
water and abuse (especially salt water). Am I misreading
the manual or are these bolts all torque 'em and forget 'em?
I checked Wray's online manual and the Elite looks almost
identical to the Rebel in this area so words of wisdom and
comfort will help me sleep better.
Thanks,
Eric Fogelin
Elite 645
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
6 Message:0006 6
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: All metal ailerons - Rebel??
Wayne's right !! The Elite ailerons & flaps are COMPLETELY different
animals - there are extra hinge supports, weights in the front, and
large aerodynamic balance horns at the outboard ends.
Again - they added a lot of weight, complexity for building, and
lost roll effectiveness. Why ?? Because a bunch of potential customers
thought aluminum would look more like a "real airplane" - the old
"Cessna did it, so it must be good" thing !!! ;-(
(same reason the Elite was originally a tricycle ...)
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 08:22 PM 1/26/00 -0500, you wrote:Doug,
They are also both statically and aerodynamically(spades) balanced!
Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Martin <greyghost@powernet.net>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: All metal ailerons - Rebel??
Spitfires,Check with MAM the Elite's are all metal?
Doug in Reno
At 11:23 PM 1/25/2000 -0500, you wrote:lb.
spar----------------------------------------------------------------------------*----------------------------------------------------*Doug Martin
greyghost@powernet.net
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
7 Message:0007 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Attach Fittings Paranoia
Eric Fogelin wrote:EricBut just to follow-up. How about the edge distance problem?
On the Rebel, is the Root Rib Attach Bracket (W-161) flush
with the root end of the front spar? If yes, then the Rebel
doesn't have an edge distance problem as the W-119 Front
Spar Fitting Attachment will be bolted 15/32" back from the
root end of the front spar. My W-161 bracket overhangs
the root end due to the 5/16" pre-punched holes in the front
spar used to align W-161.
FWIW on my Rebel the w161 overlaps the leading edge spar (inboard) on both
wings.
On the right wing I just barely have 1/2" edge distance on the leading edge
Wayne'sfor the AN4 bolts. The left wing has quite a bit less. In addition to
forcomments, I think maybe the spar doublers (.040 and .050?) reduce the need
about anthe normal edge distance.
As far as corrosion goes, I chromated over the entire bolt. I asked MAM
ininspection/access plate and they said no, which I guess is not surprising
clearthis area. I believe I had to insert the bolts with the head forward to
onthe wing skin so there would be no way to remove them anyway.
There is a similar situation at the rear spar where the width of the flange
MAMthe root rib is not sufficient for the normal edge distance. I am sure that
cheaperhas designed for this as well however.
cheers
Ken
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Message:0008 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Clay Smith <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments
Is there any instruments types or brand names that I should stay away from?
There seems to be such a variety out there. I heard that some of the
Hebrands can't stand up to the vibration!?
Richard DeCiero wrote:
Clay,
Check out www.aeroelectric.com and read some of the material. Bob
Nuckolls is the owner of that site and has some interesting info there.
Gookhas a book on aircraft electrical systems that would be very helpful.
lessluck.
Rick D.
Rebel 446
Clay Smith wrote:
*----------------------------------------------------*I'm just about ready to start working on my panel. Would anyone have
any suggestions on flight and engine instrument types? A good place to
buy them with reasonable pricing? How about the other stuff, like
switches, wiring and circuit breakers?
Thanks, Clay
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 Message:0009 9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Frank Arndt" <farndt@xcelco.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Rebel 0145R
Hi gang,
I thought it was time to come out of hiding and make myself known. My
name is Frank Arndt and I live in Sarnia, Ont. (about 3hrs west of Toronto,
right on the US border). I bought 145R in Orangeville, Ont 90% complete
shouldengine and hanging way up from the rafters. The workmanship was quite good
in my opinion.
I would like to say that this mail list has been a great resource of
idea's and opinions with your primary aim focused on saftey, which it
isbe. I am starting to feel real guilty for absorbing all your ideas but
offering the list nothing, so here goes:
I am not a "HorsePower nut" so my engine choice would probably not suit
most people on the list. I have decided to give the Subaru EA-81 a fair try
at Rebel 145R. I am currently flying a Karatoo (with another EA-81) which
Ioverweight 970lbs+ and extreamely nose heavy as the airframe was not
intended for this engine. All that said, it flies not too bad and I figure
lighthave to get better performance in 145R. I am almost finished my little
project with some instruments and paint left to do. 145R is relatively
out(under 800lbs when complete, I hope!) and has all the safety modifications
done. All my flying will be on wheels, most of it solo and I'm not planning
any round the world trips, just a little air-time is what I am after. I am
hoping my new engine produces 85 to 90 HP, (I don't quite buy the 105HP
advertized) and I would be quite happy bumping along at 80 mph.
I don't want to bore you so I will shutup now.
I would love to hear your thoughts, (good or bad) and if there is anyone
line ofthere trying to do something similar I have lots of digital JPG's of 145R,
mostly the engine installation. Also I will share all my performance data
(good or bad) so anyone interested will learn from my experience.
Special thanks to Bob Patterson and Dave Bangle for your opinions up front
and honest.
Frank
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Message:0010 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1@star.net>
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments
Clay,
I am also working on instrument panel stuff. Aircraft spruce offers a
I2 1/4 " gauges that are supposedly vibration resistant. They are their
Microflite-1000 series. I have bought some of them and will try them out.
Mechanical oil press, mechanical oil temp, and voltmeter are the ones that
+purchased. Their ammeter is only a 30 amp so I got a Westach with a 60 amp
descriptionshunt. The Microflight-1000's are fairly inexpensive and had a good
have theof them in the catalog. They look nice too. Check their web site it may
ofsame info. I have a vibration isolated main panel for the standard six pack
for me.instruments and have not bought any of those yet. I also think that I will
isolate the small panel. The small 8-32 stud mounted shock isolators work
from?Same as Cessna panel mounts.
Good luck,
Rick D.
Clay Smith wrote:
Is there any instruments types or brand names that I should stay away
cheaperThere seems to be such a variety out there. I heard that some of the
Hebrands can't stand up to the vibration!?
Richard DeCiero wrote:
Clay,
Check out www.aeroelectric.com and read some of the material. Bob
Nuckolls is the owner of that site and has some interesting info there.
Gookhas a book on aircraft electrical systems that would be very helpful.
toluck.
Rick D.
Rebel 446
Clay Smith wrote:
me to--------------------------------------------------------------------------*----------------------------------------------------**----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
11 Message:0011 11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1@star.net>
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments
Clay,
One more point of philosophy. I elected to use 2 1/4" gauges instead of
specials such as some of the "many function" instruments. This will allow
at theuse just about anyones gauges if any of these conk out. I have used this
philosophy throught the aircraft. All of the fancy show all gauges put you
route. Onmercy of that manufacturer. Which is exactly why I went the homebuilt
buy itmy C-172 I had to buy a small bracket that kept the front of the cowl from
bumping the engine. At $ 92.00 I almost croaked but I had no choice but to
customfrom Cessna. I am unsure installing about electronic ignition for just this
reason. If I break down somewhere, who will help with repairs of your
from?electronic stuff, but with the old magnetoes just about anyone can help.
Bye,
Rick D.
Clay Smith wrote:
Is there any instruments types or brand names that I should stay away
cheaperThere seems to be such a variety out there. I heard that some of the
Hebrands can't stand up to the vibration!?
Richard DeCiero wrote:
Clay,
Check out www.aeroelectric.com and read some of the material. Bob
Nuckolls is the owner of that site and has some interesting info there.
Gookhas a book on aircraft electrical systems that would be very helpful.
toluck.
Rick D.
Rebel 446
Clay Smith wrote:
plane--------------------------------------------------------------------------*----------------------------------------------------**----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
12 Message:0012 12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments
Well said Rick,
Howard just loves his electronic (all in one, with the flashing red idiot
light) engine monitor. I won't name the brand. He did however have his
thetied to the dock for 2 days this summer, while he tried to get a hold of
thatmanufacturer as all readouts were away off so he couldn't fly. On the 3rd
day he had me come up to the lake and with the owner of the Electronic
Company on the other end of the phone line, I reprogrammed his "hidden" set
up pages that had been zapped by a power surge due, to starting up with the
monitor turned on! Good thing he was tied to his own dock! But if you were
in the boonies, I guess if you know your plane well enough and that it
normally doesn't redline on takeoff, etc and temperatures/pressures usually
run normal you could chance flying to civilization. (NOT With me along for
the ride you won't) Or you do carry all the info and programming sheets
allowcome with everything you are putting in the plane don't you! This will
ofyou to use you Cell Phone and call the manufacturer from Lake Timbucktwo.
What, no signal you say!!!! You did bring paddles, didn't you????
I guess I'm just an Analog type of guy also! (I did say Analog)
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1@star.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Instruments
Clay,
One more point of philosophy. I elected to use 2 1/4" gauges instead
thisme tospecials such as some of the "many function" instruments. This will allowat theuse just about anyones gauges if any of these conk out. I have used this
philosophy throught the aircraft. All of the fancy show all gauges put youroute. Onmercy of that manufacturer. Which is exactly why I went the homebuiltbuy itmy C-172 I had to buy a small bracket that kept the front of the cowl from
bumping the engine. At $ 92.00 I almost croaked but I had no choice but tofrom Cessna. I am unsure installing about electronic ignition for just
there.customreason. If I break down somewhere, who will help with repairs of yourfrom?electronic stuff, but with the old magnetoes just about anyone can help.
Bye,
Rick D.
Clay Smith wrote:
Is there any instruments types or brand names that I should stay awaycheaperThere seems to be such a variety out there. I heard that some of thebrands can't stand up to the vibration!?
Richard DeCiero wrote:
haveHeGook
:-)to--------------------------------------------------------------------------*----------------------------------------------------**----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
13 Message:0013 13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments
Nothing leaps to mind - most are ok. Are you planning on having any
gyro instruments ?? Vacuum or electric ?? There ARE differences between
vacuum gyros meant for vacuum pumps, and those for venturi tubes - get
the wrong one, and it won't work properly !! Personally, I dislike
vacuum pumps - they suck about 3 hp. all the time, and need overhaul
too often for my liking. Venturi tubes won't hurt much - it's not
a 300 mph. airplane ! :-) If you don't plan IFR anyway, then maybe
just a standby electric turn-and-bank, just in case ! ;-)
Vertical card compasses are nice, but expensive - probably not worth
the price ... If you can find a good one at Canadian Tire - go for it !
At a recent Rebel Builders meeting, we heard about a new type of compass
that's available through Radio Shack for about $60 - electronic, and
easy to set up, even with extreme magnetic conditions (like steel tube
next to compass).
Get an airspeed indicator that covers your range as close as possible
- markings down to 20 mph, and up to 140 or 160, although even 130 would
likely do. Avoid the 250 mph types - too hard to read the 1" needle range
----Many Rebel Builders are using the VAL panel mount radio - they cost
less than a hand held, and give good performance (8 watts), and have a
bright display that adjusts for lighting conditions. They have a 2 channel
flip flop switch which is handy for going to ground control quickly.
For about $75 extra, they will supply a made-up wiring harness, ready
to go - a bargain !
Hand-held GPS, with a bracket on the panel, is the most cost-effective
way to go. The technology is advancing quickly, so wait as long as you
can to buy - prices are falling. The fancy combination radio & GPS units
look sexy, but they're EXPENSIVE - both to buy, and maintain. If one
part goes, you lose both for servicing :-(
A moving map display is really nice, but we fly one Rebel with a
$140 GPS from the sporting goods store - works way better than our old
LORAN !! You can always move up, when you know what you want ...
You might want to check out photos of other panels - the standard
layout is becoming - electrical stuff on left angle panel, mounted on
a flip down panel with piano hinges top & bottom, with a doubler around
the hole. The flight instruments are often mounted on a floating panel
in front of the pilot - use 1/8" Lexan for this, and you can put labels
on the back, and paint the back. This looks great, and is protected.
The floating panel is mounted on shock mounts (or just bolts with
fuel line over them). Cut holes in the metal panel to match the floating
panel, but oversize about 1/4" or so - to keep the strength of the
panel (it IS structural). Attach a 1 1/2" aluminum angle to the bottom
of the panel - all the way across, and even out the angles. This angle
will stiffen up the panel AND give you a plave to mount the throttle,
mixture, carb heat, primer, and trim button, leaving space for 2 rows
of full sized instruments on the panel. (can be a 2" angle)
......bobp
-----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
from?At 09:09 PM 1/27/00 -0330, you wrote:Is there any instruments types or brand names that I should stay away
cheaperThere seems to be such a variety out there. I heard that some of the
Hebrands can't stand up to the vibration!?
Richard DeCiero wrote:
Clay,
Check out www.aeroelectric.com and read some of the material. Bob
Nuckolls is the owner of that site and has some interesting info there.
Gookhas a book on aircraft electrical systems that would be very helpful.
Toronto,--------------------------------------------------------------------------luck.
Rick D.
Rebel 446
Clay Smith wrote:
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
14 Message:0014 14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel 0145R
Glad you spoke up !! I'm sure there is interest here in the Subaru.
There are a LOT of people who just want to fly cheaply and have fun, so
I'm sure you're going to LOVE that Rebel !
Hope you get lots of requests for the photos for posting here & at
Wray's ....
Not to scare you, but the comment about buying a partly-built kit
reminded me -
Just a thought - for anyone buying a 'almost finished' Rebel -
especially the early ones ....
The old manuals had a 'cut-away' drawing of the fuel tanks which
DID NOT show the stringers in the top of the tank. Some Rebels were
actually built with the top stringers cut out of this area !!! This
would be EXTREMELY dangerous - like cutting the main spars ! PLEASE
inspect this area carefully - there are still some out there like this !
And there are some that were "patched up" when the builders realized the
problem - BEWARE !! This MAY be why they are selling cheap !!
There are ways to do a repair, but it will involve a lot of disassembly
and close work with the factory - they WILL be pleased to help !
Anybody out there with a 912 or a small Subaru who can give Frank
some encouragement about how well the Rebel flies with smaller engines ???
We sure enjoy ours with the 912 !! Cheap FUN flying !! :-)
.....bobp
--------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 08:13 PM 1/27/00 -0500, you wrote:Hi gang,
I thought it was time to come out of hiding and make myself known. My
name is Frank Arndt and I live in Sarnia, Ont. (about 3hrs west of
lessright on the US border). I bought 145R in Orangeville, Ont 90% complete
shouldengine and hanging way up from the rafters. The workmanship was quite good
in my opinion.
I would like to say that this mail list has been a great resource of
idea's and opinions with your primary aim focused on saftey, which it
suitbe. I am starting to feel real guilty for absorbing all your ideas but
offering the list nothing, so here goes:
I am not a "HorsePower nut" so my engine choice would probably not
trymost people on the list. I have decided to give the Subaru EA-81 a fair
isat Rebel 145R. I am currently flying a Karatoo (with another EA-81) which
Ioverweight 970lbs+ and extreamely nose heavy as the airframe was not
intended for this engine. All that said, it flies not too bad and I figure
lighthave to get better performance in 145R. I am almost finished my little
project with some instruments and paint left to do. 145R is relatively
planning(under 800lbs when complete, I hope!) and has all the safety modifications
done. All my flying will be on wheels, most of it solo and I'm not
outany round the world trips, just a little air-time is what I am after. I am
hoping my new engine produces 85 to 90 HP, (I don't quite buy the 105HP
advertized) and I would be quite happy bumping along at 80 mph.
I don't want to bore you so I will shutup now.
I would love to hear your thoughts, (good or bad) and if there is anyone
down--------------------------------------------------------------------------there trying to do something similar I have lots of digital JPG's of 145R,
mostly the engine installation. Also I will share all my performance data
(good or bad) so anyone interested will learn from my experience.
Special thanks to Bob Patterson and Dave Bangle for your opinions up front
and honest.
Frank
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
15 Message:0015 15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: AURELE LAVIGNE <alavigne@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: "(Murphy Rebel Builders List)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Small engines
I guess I can add my two cents, after that invite from Bob as I have the
912 in my Rebel. It wasn`t planned that way but I bought the fully
completed/used Rebel this way because;1-the price was right 2- it's
cheap to fly, operate and maintain as it's reg't as an AULA for one
thing 3-licensing was cheap also since I only needed a U/L.
Rick in Australia didn't beleive you could put floats on this setup, and
while I agree you won't get the performance of an 0-320, I can go pretty
much any place they can cheaper but slower. I call it "the poor man's
plane" but most people think otherwise when they see the plane.
As Bob P. put it, there are a few of us with this setup and we do some
nice slow flying which is enjoyable too. Bye the way, Bob flew mine from
the factory in B.C.back in 93 for the original owner to Northern
Ontario, so he's got almost as much time logged on it as I do.
If I ever have the money, like winning the lotary or something, I might
go for something like the 912S for that little extra Ummmph!!!
Keep us posted of your results with the Suburu.
Aurele Lavigne
Rebel 063
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 Message:0016 16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments
Great advice as usual Bob,
My experience with the Val Radio are:
Make sure you get a newer model that has a battery in it to retain the
frequency you set. Otherwise ever time you turn it on you have to reset the
frequency! Has caused problems for our chapter while doing Young Eagle
Flights because you concentrate on the kids safety as you taxi out. Then as
you pull out on the runway you broadcast your intentions without noticing
that the radio has defaulted to the bottom of the scale! Has cause some
close calls with aircraft pulling out with another on short final, much to
the excitement of the Parents!
Also, I have found if you are using a Val Radio, you better order a $150cdn
filter to put on the power lead AT the radio. The noise in the headset will
drive you nuts otherwise! (Remember test flying Howards Amphib Bob?) Have
had to filter 2 others also. One in a C150 and another Rebel. My KLX135's
are absolutely silent (for noise that is), but yes you are right, the
original one I bought cost me $4200cdn and the latest one the price was
cost-effectiveto $2200U.S ($3300cdn).
As for the vacuum instruments are you sure there is a difference?? I have
the same instruments (A/H and D/G) in both Rebels. One with pump and one
with V. tube. All work fine! Maybe I just got lucky?????
Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: Instruments
:-)Nothing leaps to mind - most are ok. Are you planning on having any
gyro instruments ?? Vacuum or electric ?? There ARE differences between
vacuum gyros meant for vacuum pumps, and those for venturi tubes - get
the wrong one, and it won't work properly !! Personally, I dislike
vacuum pumps - they suck about 3 hp. all the time, and need overhaul
too often for my liking. Venturi tubes won't hurt much - it's not
a 300 mph. airplane ! :-) If you don't plan IFR anyway, then maybe
just a standby electric turn-and-bank, just in case ! ;-)
Vertical card compasses are nice, but expensive - probably not worth
the price ... If you can find a good one at Canadian Tire - go for it !
At a recent Rebel Builders meeting, we heard about a new type of compass
that's available through Radio Shack for about $60 - electronic, and
easy to set up, even with extreme magnetic conditions (like steel tube
next to compass).
Get an airspeed indicator that covers your range as close as possible
- markings down to 20 mph, and up to 140 or 160, although even 130 would
likely do. Avoid the 250 mph types - too hard to read the 1" needle rangeMany Rebel Builders are using the VAL panel mount radio - they cost
less than a hand held, and give good performance (8 watts), and have a
bright display that adjusts for lighting conditions. They have a 2 channel
flip flop switch which is handy for going to ground control quickly.
For about $75 extra, they will supply a made-up wiring harness, ready
to go - a bargain !
Hand-held GPS, with a bracket on the panel, is the most
-way to go. The technology is advancing quickly, so wait as long as you
can to buy - prices are falling. The fancy combination radio & GPS units
look sexy, but they're EXPENSIVE - both to buy, and maintain. If one
part goes, you lose both for servicing :-(
A moving map display is really nice, but we fly one Rebel with a
$140 GPS from the sporting goods store - works way better than our old
LORAN !! You can always move up, when you know what you want ...
You might want to check out photos of other panels - the standard
layout is becoming - electrical stuff on left angle panel, mounted on
a flip down panel with piano hinges top & bottom, with a doubler around
the hole. The flight instruments are often mounted on a floating panel
in front of the pilot - use 1/8" Lexan for this, and you can put labels
on the back, and paint the back. This looks great, and is protected.
The floating panel is mounted on shock mounts (or just bolts with
fuel line over them). Cut holes in the metal panel to match the floating
panel, but oversize about 1/4" or so - to keep the strength of the
panel (it IS structural). Attach a 1 1/2" aluminum angle to the bottom
of the panel - all the way across, and even out the angles. This angle
will stiffen up the panel AND give you a plave to mount the throttle,
mixture, carb heat, primer, and trim button, leaving space for 2 rows
of full sized instruments on the panel. (can be a 2" angle)
......bobp
-----------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
to----from?At 09:09 PM 1/27/00 -0330, you wrote:Is there any instruments types or brand names that I should stay awaycheaperThere seems to be such a variety out there. I heard that some of theHebrands can't stand up to the vibration!?
Richard DeCiero wrote:
Gook
*----------------------------------------------------**----------------------------------------------------*
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel