The Murphy Builders Site

I finished overhauling the carbs and mechanical synchronization, not quite

What kind of idle rpm are you other guys getting, the information I found

Also, I'm having a problem when shutting mags off (electronic), engine

Thanks, Aurele
R063



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I don't think I have ever got a 912 to idle that low. Usually around 1650
or
so at best..smooth close to 2000.

If it's not shutting off then you have a ground problem on the mag or
switch. Just like an old lawn mower when you turn the switch to off it
ground the mags out. Running they are open. Attach a wire to each of the
joiners coming out of the mags that go to the switch. Then try shutting it
off by grounding these wires out to the frame. If it shuts off definitely
a
loose wire on the key switch or somewhere down stream from there.

Hope you guys are doing some planning and thought for a day in June to
come
and get Yvan's Rebel as I need some advance warning so I can plan around
it,
other work and trips to the lake. I told Yvan to find a 24' enclosed
trailer
for the trip. Last time I corresponded he had found a 20 footer MAYBE. 20
feet would be toooooo tight and you probably couldn't close the back door.
Other option would be to hit a truck rental place and get their biggest
truck available. Usually they have a 26 footer around here for about $80 a
day.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

I finished overhauling the carbs and mechanical synchronization, not
quite

finished, as still want to do a pneumatic synchro. with a new electronic
balancer I purchased. Idle is the smoothest it's ever been.

What kind of idle rpm are you other guys getting, the information I found

says 1400, sounds low to me.

Also, I'm having a problem when shutting mags off (electronic), engine

keeps running. This appears to be electrical ??? Any ideas.

Thanks, Aurele
R063



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Thanks Wayne, I'll have to have a look at that. (kill swicthes)

As for our trip up, we were looking at something around the last week of
June, based on your schedule. I'll try to confirm the dates with Yvan

As for a trailer, if he doesn't manage to line one up, we did discuss
renting one for the way back.
I'll get back to you or Yvan of course.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

I don't think I have ever got a 912 to idle that low. Usually around 1650
or
so at best..smooth close to 2000.

If it's not shutting off then you have a ground problem on the mag or
switch. Just like an old lawn mower when you turn the switch to off it
ground the mags out. Running they are open. Attach a wire to each of the
joiners coming out of the mags that go to the switch. Then try shutting

off by grounding these wires out to the frame. If it shuts off

a
loose wire on the key switch or somewhere down stream from there.

Hope you guys are doing some planning and thought for a day in June to
come
and get Yvan's Rebel as I need some advance warning so I can plan around
it,
other work and trips to the lake. I told Yvan to find a 24' enclosed
trailer
for the trip. Last time I corresponded he had found a 20 footer MAYBE.

feet would be toooooo tight and you probably couldn't close the back

Other option would be to hit a truck rental place and get their biggest
truck available. Usually they have a 26 footer around here for about $80

day.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

I finished overhauling the carbs and mechanical synchronization, not
quite

finished, as still want to do a pneumatic synchro. with a new electronic
balancer I purchased. Idle is the smoothest it's ever been.

What kind of idle rpm are you other guys getting, the information I

says 1400, sounds low to me.

Also, I'm having a problem when shutting mags off (electronic), engine

keeps running. This appears to be electrical ??? Any ideas.

Thanks, Aurele
R063



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-----------------------------------------------------------------





--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.3/331 - Release Date: 5/3/2006

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Okay..but that would make it needing to be Tue/Wed or Thur the 27/28/29 of
June and I have to be at Daughter's grad afternoon of the 29th. Will be away
fishing from the 20th 'till the 26th and leaving first thing in the am on
the 30th for the lake...for the summer!

Good luck with the electrical gremlin hunt. I had a similar thing happen on
a customers 912S last week. I ran it up to be sure his oil level was correct
and it wouldn't shut off without running on, shaking the (@*@$# out of
itself etc to the point I was scared it was going to do the 921 S trick of
throwing the carbs off the boots. It did that twice. I then let it run
longer the third time and it shut right off with the key and I couldn't get
it to run on again at all. Not sure if it was an elect problem or
preignition from glowing particles after removing his plugs, cleaning and
reinstalling. He didn't call me from the cottage after picking it up and
hasn't complained so it must have shut off fine at destination last weekend.
I'm sure his wife would have called to thank me by now... if he hadn't made
it! ;o)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Thanks Wayne, I'll have to have a look at that. (kill swicthes)

As for our trip up, we were looking at something around the last week of
June, based on your schedule. I'll try to confirm the dates with Yvan

asap.

As for a trailer, if he doesn't manage to line one up, we did discuss
renting one for the way back.
I'll get back to you or Yvan of course.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

I don't think I have ever got a 912 to idle that low. Usually around 1650
or
so at best..smooth close to 2000.

If it's not shutting off then you have a ground problem on the mag or
switch. Just like an old lawn mower when you turn the switch to off it
ground the mags out. Running they are open. Attach a wire to each of the
joiners coming out of the mags that go to the switch. Then try shutting

it

off by grounding these wires out to the frame. If it shuts off

definitely

a
loose wire on the key switch or somewhere down stream from there.

Hope you guys are doing some planning and thought for a day in June to
come
and get Yvan's Rebel as I need some advance warning so I can plan around
it,
other work and trips to the lake. I told Yvan to find a 24' enclosed
trailer
for the trip. Last time I corresponded he had found a 20 footer MAYBE.

20

feet would be toooooo tight and you probably couldn't close the back

door.

Other option would be to hit a truck rental place and get their biggest
truck available. Usually they have a 26 footer around here for about $80

a

day.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912



finished, as still want to do a pneumatic synchro. with a new electronic
balancer I purchased. Idle is the smoothest it's ever been.

found

says 1400, sounds low to me.

keeps running. This appears to be electrical ??? Any ideas.



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-----------------------------------------------------------------





--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.3/331 - Release Date: 5/3/2006

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Okay..but that would make it needing to be Tue/Wed or Thur the 27/28/29 of
June and I have to be at Daughter's grad afternoon of the 29th. Will be
away
fishing from the 20th 'till the 26th and leaving first thing in the am on
the 30th for the lake...for the summer!

Good luck with the electrical gremlin hunt. I had a similar thing happen
on
a customers 912S last week. I ran it up to be sure his oil level was
correct
and it wouldn't shut off without running on, shaking the (@*@$# out of
itself etc to the point I was scared it was going to do the 921 S trick of
throwing the carbs off the boots. It did that twice. I then let it run
longer the third time and it shut right off with the key and I couldn't
get
it to run on again at all. Not sure if it was an elect problem or
preignition from glowing particles after removing his plugs, cleaning and
reinstalling. He didn't call me from the cottage after picking it up and
hasn't complained so it must have shut off fine at destination last
weekend.
I'm sure his wife would have called to thank me by now... if he hadn't
made
it! ;o)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Thanks Wayne, I'll have to have a look at that. (kill swicthes)

As for our trip up, we were looking at something around the last week of
June, based on your schedule. I'll try to confirm the dates with Yvan

asap.

As for a trailer, if he doesn't manage to line one up, we did discuss
renting one for the way back.
I'll get back to you or Yvan of course.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

I don't think I have ever got a 912 to idle that low. Usually around
1650
or
so at best..smooth close to 2000.

If it's not shutting off then you have a ground problem on the mag or
switch. Just like an old lawn mower when you turn the switch to off it
ground the mags out. Running they are open. Attach a wire to each of
the
joiners coming out of the mags that go to the switch. Then try shutting

it

off by grounding these wires out to the frame. If it shuts off

definitely

a
loose wire on the key switch or somewhere down stream from there.

Hope you guys are doing some planning and thought for a day in June to
come
and get Yvan's Rebel as I need some advance warning so I can plan
around
it,
other work and trips to the lake. I told Yvan to find a 24' enclosed
trailer
for the trip. Last time I corresponded he had found a 20 footer MAYBE.

20

feet would be toooooo tight and you probably couldn't close the back

door.

Other option would be to hit a truck rental place and get their biggest
truck available. Usually they have a 26 footer around here for about
$80

a

day.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

finished, as still want to do a pneumatic synchro. with a new
electronic
balancer I purchased. Idle is the smoothest it's ever been.

found

says 1400, sounds low to me. keeps running. This appears to be electrical ??? Any ideas.



-----------------------------------------------------------------
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username "rebel" password "builder"
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-----------------------------------------------------------------





--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.3/331 - Release Date: 5/3/2006

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--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.3/331 - Release Date: 5/3/2006

From: Aurele Lavigne <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
Sent: May 11, 2006 8:02 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Ok Wayne, passed on your e-mail to Yvan with the dates and spoke to hime, we
are going to confirm that soooooon, but likely 27th or 28th.

As for carbs falling off, solved that problem many years ago by tying them
off to the intakes, adding much needed support. Of course the real fix is a
smooth running engine and I've now got that pretty much done with the
exeption of my shutdown.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Okay..but that would make it needing to be Tue/Wed or Thur the 27/28/29 of
June and I have to be at Daughter's grad afternoon of the 29th. Will be
away
fishing from the 20th 'till the 26th and leaving first thing in the am on
the 30th for the lake...for the summer!

Good luck with the electrical gremlin hunt. I had a similar thing happen
on
a customers 912S last week. I ran it up to be sure his oil level was
correct
and it wouldn't shut off without running on, shaking the (@*@$# out of
itself etc to the point I was scared it was going to do the 921 S trick of
throwing the carbs off the boots. It did that twice. I then let it run
longer the third time and it shut right off with the key and I couldn't
get
it to run on again at all. Not sure if it was an elect problem or
preignition from glowing particles after removing his plugs, cleaning and
reinstalling. He didn't call me from the cottage after picking it up and
hasn't complained so it must have shut off fine at destination last
weekend.
I'm sure his wife would have called to thank me by now... if he hadn't
made
it! ;o)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Thanks Wayne, I'll have to have a look at that. (kill swicthes)

As for our trip up, we were looking at something around the last week of
June, based on your schedule. I'll try to confirm the dates with Yvan

asap.

As for a trailer, if he doesn't manage to line one up, we did discuss
renting one for the way back.
I'll get back to you or Yvan of course.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

it

definitely

20

door.

a

found

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-----------------------------------------------------------------

I have a Kitfox and a 912S with close to 300 hours. Skystars' firewall
forward came with 4 thick springs, 2 on each side of the carb, to support
the carb/boot. You have to make taps mounted by the manifold bolts (?) to
hold the springs to the engine. I cant remember the exact configuration but
it is pretty straight forward.

Rotax changed the robber boot design in 2000 to a stronger boot that had
no metal support ring inside that caused a crack in the boot after a short
time in service. I haven't thrown a carb in 4 years. They will eventually
crack and leak especially if the hose clamp is not torqued correctly.
Di-lectric grease speared on the boot will keep it from drying out and
make them last longer. I use it on engine Barry/Lord mounts too.

My 912S with warp drive prop calms down about 1800 RPM. 1600 is OK but
1400 is rough and only used for short landings...to get the prop rotation
down to around 700 RPM with the PRU.

Eric Tucker told me pneumatic sync is not necessary that mechanical sync
is all that is really needed. I never experienced the shut down problems
you described so I'm not sure I can help you there. The 912S is very
particular what spark plug you use. Do not use the same plug as the normal
912 80 HP.

Bruce G





-----Original Message-----

From: Aurele Lavigne <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
Sent: May 11, 2006 8:02 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Ok Wayne, passed on your e-mail to Yvan with the dates and spoke to hime,
we
are going to confirm that soooooon, but likely 27th or 28th.

As for carbs falling off, solved that problem many years ago by tying them
off to the intakes, adding much needed support. Of course the real fix is
a
smooth running engine and I've now got that pretty much done with the
exeption of my shutdown.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Okay..but that would make it needing to be Tue/Wed or Thur the 27/28/29
of
June and I have to be at Daughter's grad afternoon of the 29th. Will be
away
fishing from the 20th 'till the 26th and leaving first thing in the am
on
the 30th for the lake...for the summer!

Good luck with the electrical gremlin hunt. I had a similar thing happen
on
a customers 912S last week. I ran it up to be sure his oil level was
correct
and it wouldn't shut off without running on, shaking the (@*@$# out of
itself etc to the point I was scared it was going to do the 921 S trick
of
throwing the carbs off the boots. It did that twice. I then let it run
longer the third time and it shut right off with the key and I couldn't
get
it to run on again at all. Not sure if it was an elect problem or
preignition from glowing particles after removing his plugs, cleaning
and
reinstalling. He didn't call me from the cottage after picking it up and
hasn't complained so it must have shut off fine at destination last
weekend.
I'm sure his wife would have called to thank me by now... if he hadn't
made
it! ;o)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

asap. it definitely 20 door. a found



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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.3/331 - Release Date: 5/3/2006

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--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006

I have a Kitfox and a 912S with close to 300 hours. Skystars' firewall
forward came with 4 thick springs, 2 on each side of the carb, to support
the carb/boot. You have to make taps mounted by the manifold bolts (?) to
hold the springs to the engine. I cant remember the exact configuration but
it is pretty straight forward.

Rotax changed the robber boot design in 2000 to a stronger boot that had
no metal support ring inside that caused a crack in the boot after a short
time in service. I haven't thrown a carb in 4 years. They will eventually
crack and leak especially if the hose clamp is not torqued correctly.
Di-lectric grease speared on the boot will keep it from drying out and
make them last longer. I use it on engine Barry/Lord mounts too.

My 912S with warp drive prop calms down about 1800 RPM. 1600 is OK but
1400 is rough and only used for short landings...to get the prop rotation
down to around 700 RPM with the PRU.

Eric Tucker told me pneumatic sync is not necessary that mechanical sync
is all that is really needed. I never experienced the shut down problems
you described so I'm not sure I can help you there. The 912S is very
particular what spark plug you use. Do not use the same plug as the normal
912 80 HP.

Bruce G





-----Original Message-----

From: Aurele Lavigne <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
Sent: May 11, 2006 8:02 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Ok Wayne, passed on your e-mail to Yvan with the dates and spoke to hime,
we
are going to confirm that soooooon, but likely 27th or 28th.

As for carbs falling off, solved that problem many years ago by tying them
off to the intakes, adding much needed support. Of course the real fix is
a
smooth running engine and I've now got that pretty much done with the
exeption of my shutdown.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Okay..but that would make it needing to be Tue/Wed or Thur the 27/28/29
of
June and I have to be at Daughter's grad afternoon of the 29th. Will be
away
fishing from the 20th 'till the 26th and leaving first thing in the am
on
the 30th for the lake...for the summer!

Good luck with the electrical gremlin hunt. I had a similar thing happen
on
a customers 912S last week. I ran it up to be sure his oil level was
correct
and it wouldn't shut off without running on, shaking the (@*@$# out of
itself etc to the point I was scared it was going to do the 921 S trick
of
throwing the carbs off the boots. It did that twice. I then let it run
longer the third time and it shut right off with the key and I couldn't
get
it to run on again at all. Not sure if it was an elect problem or
preignition from glowing particles after removing his plugs, cleaning
and
reinstalling. He didn't call me from the cottage after picking it up and
hasn't complained so it must have shut off fine at destination last
weekend.
I'm sure his wife would have called to thank me by now... if he hadn't
made
it! ;o)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

asap. it definitely 20 door. a found



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-----------------------------------------------------------------





--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.3/331 - Release Date: 5/3/2006

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From: Aurele Lavigne <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
Sent: May 16, 2006 7:59 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Bruce, Wayne and others, the problem with the kill switches was definetly
the ground. Took about 2 minutes to confirm that with a meter. Ran a new
ground to the engine, actually the battery and now 100%.

As for carb synch Bruce, my gauge confirmed that the mechanical synch is all
you need. No further adjustments were required, I assume if you do a good
job manually that is. Runs really smooooooooooooooooooooth.

Thanks all,

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

I have a Kitfox and a 912S with close to 300 hours. Skystars' firewall
forward came with 4 thick springs, 2 on each side of the carb, to support
the carb/boot. You have to make taps mounted by the manifold bolts (?) to
hold the springs to the engine. I cant remember the exact configuration but
it is pretty straight forward.

Rotax changed the robber boot design in 2000 to a stronger boot that had
no metal support ring inside that caused a crack in the boot after a short
time in service. I haven't thrown a carb in 4 years. They will eventually
crack and leak especially if the hose clamp is not torqued correctly.
Di-lectric grease speared on the boot will keep it from drying out and
make them last longer. I use it on engine Barry/Lord mounts too.

My 912S with warp drive prop calms down about 1800 RPM. 1600 is OK but
1400 is rough and only used for short landings...to get the prop rotation
down to around 700 RPM with the PRU.

Eric Tucker told me pneumatic sync is not necessary that mechanical sync
is all that is really needed. I never experienced the shut down problems
you described so I'm not sure I can help you there. The 912S is very
particular what spark plug you use. Do not use the same plug as the normal
912 80 HP.

Bruce G





-----Original Message-----

From: Aurele Lavigne <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
Sent: May 11, 2006 8:02 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912

Ok Wayne, passed on your e-mail to Yvan with the dates and spoke to hime,
we
are going to confirm that soooooon, but likely 27th or 28th.

As for carbs falling off, solved that problem many years ago by tying them
off to the intakes, adding much needed support. Of course the real fix is
a
smooth running engine and I've now got that pretty much done with the
exeption of my shutdown.

Aurele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] troubleshooting-912



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