The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

Interesting weight and balance with the FLs. How did you get your c of g so
far back? Are the FLs aft heavy? What was your empty weight on wheels? What
is your float angle relative to the bottom of the cabin or top window sill?
Thanks for sharing.

My ready to fly empty weight on my 1800 amphibs with the 0320 is 1250
pounds. That includes a full survival kit, paddle, etc.

Also, where are you located, Alvin?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Alvin
and Glenys Adams
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:00 PM
To: rebel
Subject: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Gooday To all;Just finished my weight & balance on rebel with 160hp,prince
prop On 2150 full lotus floats.Split flaps,Mckenzie kit.
For anyone interested here are results.

Empty weight with oil 1240LBs CG- 14.38

Which Means: Pilot 190lbs
Pass 190Lbs
Fuel 110
Empty weight 1240

Total 1730Lbs Which is grose weight.
Legally with two people i can take only 15 gallons fuel no luggage.

What is average weight off reb el on Murphys Amphibs.
Of course i will get 2000lb groos aproved later.

Does above information sound correct or am i missing something.

Regards Alvin R776

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

I was gonna point that out Walter but you beat me to it. You must have cut
your firewall back did you Alvin? + put battery way in back or something to
come up with that aft a C of G. Non-moved firewall machines are generally
9.5 to 11.5 inch range empty. Even the Elite we are working on in the hanger
is 11.8 inches. What you have posted for an empty C of G is further back
than nose light 912 Rebels come out at.

The weight itself is not out of line if it was on 1800 amphibs, but I would
have thought the Lotus floats would have come out MUCH lighter than a set of
MAM 1800 amphibs. My airplane and most Rebels on 1800 amphibs come in from
about 1185 to 1250 lbs depending on paint and interior finish level.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Interesting weight and balance with the FLs. How did you get your c of g

so

far back? Are the FLs aft heavy? What was your empty weight on wheels?

What

is your float angle relative to the bottom of the cabin or top window

sill?

Thanks for sharing.

My ready to fly empty weight on my 1800 amphibs with the 0320 is 1250
pounds. That includes a full survival kit, paddle, etc.

Also, where are you located, Alvin?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Alvin

and Glenys Adams
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:00 PM
To: rebel
Subject: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Gooday To all;Just finished my weight & balance on rebel with 160hp,prince
prop On 2150 full lotus floats.Split flaps,Mckenzie kit.
For anyone interested here are results.

Empty weight with oil 1240LBs CG- 14.38

Which Means: Pilot 190lbs
Pass 190Lbs
Fuel 110
Empty weight 1240

Total 1730Lbs Which is grose weight.
Legally with two people i can take only 15 gallons fuel no luggage.

What is average weight off reb el on Murphys Amphibs.
Of course i will get 2000lb groos aproved later.

Does above information sound correct or am i missing something.

Regards Alvin R776

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

Sounds heavy for straight floats to me. On amphibs my empty weight came in
at 1130lbs.

At 10:43 PM 4/27/2006 -0400, you wrote:

I was gonna point that out Walter but you beat me to it. You must have cut
your firewall back did you Alvin? + put battery way in back or something to
come up with that aft a C of G. Non-moved firewall machines are generally
9.5 to 11.5 inch range empty. Even the Elite we are working on in the hanger
is 11.8 inches. What you have posted for an empty C of G is further back
than nose light 912 Rebels come out at.

The weight itself is not out of line if it was on 1800 amphibs, but I would
have thought the Lotus floats would have come out MUCH lighter than a set of
MAM 1800 amphibs. My airplane and most Rebels on 1800 amphibs come in from
about 1185 to 1250 lbs depending on paint and interior finish level.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Interesting weight and balance with the FLs. How did you get your c of g
so
far back? Are the FLs aft heavy? What was your empty weight on wheels?
What
is your float angle relative to the bottom of the cabin or top window
sill?
Thanks for sharing.

My ready to fly empty weight on my 1800 amphibs with the 0320 is 1250
pounds. That includes a full survival kit, paddle, etc.

Also, where are you located, Alvin?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Alvin
and Glenys Adams
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:00 PM
To: rebel
Subject: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Gooday To all;Just finished my weight & balance on rebel with 160hp,prince
prop On 2150 full lotus floats.Split flaps,Mckenzie kit.
For anyone interested here are results.

Empty weight with oil 1240LBs CG- 14.38

Which Means: Pilot 190lbs
Pass 190Lbs
Fuel 110
Empty weight 1240

Total 1730Lbs Which is grose weight.
Legally with two people i can take only 15 gallons fuel no luggage.

What is average weight off reb el on Murphys Amphibs.
Of course i will get 2000lb groos aproved later.

Does above information sound correct or am i missing something.

Regards Alvin R776

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

1130, Drew? What was your empty weight on wheels? Mine might be close to
1200 minus all my equipment, but no where near that. And I thought I had a
light Rebel back on wheels at 925 pounds (Warp prop and bungee gear), and as
low as 908 when minus some equipment on my initial weighing.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Sounds heavy for straight floats to me. On amphibs my empty weight came in
at 1130lbs.

At 10:43 PM 4/27/2006 -0400, you wrote:

I was gonna point that out Walter but you beat me to it. You must have cut
your firewall back did you Alvin? + put battery way in back or something to
come up with that aft a C of G. Non-moved firewall machines are generally
9.5 to 11.5 inch range empty. Even the Elite we are working on in the

hanger

is 11.8 inches. What you have posted for an empty C of G is further back
than nose light 912 Rebels come out at.

The weight itself is not out of line if it was on 1800 amphibs, but I would
have thought the Lotus floats would have come out MUCH lighter than a set

of

MAM 1800 amphibs. My airplane and most Rebels on 1800 amphibs come in from
about 1185 to 1250 lbs depending on paint and interior finish level.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Interesting weight and balance with the FLs. How did you get your c of g
so
far back? Are the FLs aft heavy? What was your empty weight on wheels?
What
is your float angle relative to the bottom of the cabin or top window
sill?
Thanks for sharing.

My ready to fly empty weight on my 1800 amphibs with the 0320 is 1250
pounds. That includes a full survival kit, paddle, etc.

Also, where are you located, Alvin?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Alvin
and Glenys Adams
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:00 PM
To: rebel
Subject: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Gooday To all;Just finished my weight & balance on rebel with

160hp,prince

prop On 2150 full lotus floats.Split flaps,Mckenzie kit.
For anyone interested here are results.

Empty weight with oil 1240LBs CG- 14.38

Which Means: Pilot 190lbs
Pass 190Lbs
Fuel 110
Empty weight 1240

Total 1730Lbs Which is grose weight.
Legally with two people i can take only 15 gallons fuel no luggage.

What is average weight off reb el on Murphys Amphibs.
Of course i will get 2000lb groos aproved later.

Does above information sound correct or am i missing something.

Regards Alvin R776

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

Hi Walter on wheels I'm 867lbs. That's with an 0-290D warp drive prop and
die spring gear. I'm hoping with my new engine and a prince prop that I'll
lose a few pounds but more likely it'll be up a little bit.

At 06:39 AM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote:

1130, Drew? What was your empty weight on wheels? Mine might be close to
1200 minus all my equipment, but no where near that. And I thought I had a
light Rebel back on wheels at 925 pounds (Warp prop and bungee gear), and as
low as 908 when minus some equipment on my initial weighing.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Sounds heavy for straight floats to me. On amphibs my empty weight came in
at 1130lbs.

At 10:43 PM 4/27/2006 -0400, you wrote:
I was gonna point that out Walter but you beat me to it. You must have cut
your firewall back did you Alvin? + put battery way in back or something to
come up with that aft a C of G. Non-moved firewall machines are generally
9.5 to 11.5 inch range empty. Even the Elite we are working on in the
hanger
is 11.8 inches. What you have posted for an empty C of G is further back
than nose light 912 Rebels come out at.

The weight itself is not out of line if it was on 1800 amphibs, but I would
have thought the Lotus floats would have come out MUCH lighter than a set
of
MAM 1800 amphibs. My airplane and most Rebels on 1800 amphibs come in from
about 1185 to 1250 lbs depending on paint and interior finish level.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Interesting weight and balance with the FLs. How did you get your c of g
so
far back? Are the FLs aft heavy? What was your empty weight on wheels?
What
is your float angle relative to the bottom of the cabin or top window
sill?
Thanks for sharing.

My ready to fly empty weight on my 1800 amphibs with the 0320 is 1250
pounds. That includes a full survival kit, paddle, etc.

Also, where are you located, Alvin?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Alvin
and Glenys Adams
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:00 PM
To: rebel
Subject: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Gooday To all;Just finished my weight & balance on rebel with
160hp,prince
prop On 2150 full lotus floats.Split flaps,Mckenzie kit.
For anyone interested here are results.

Empty weight with oil 1240LBs CG- 14.38

Which Means: Pilot 190lbs
Pass 190Lbs
Fuel 110
Empty weight 1240

Total 1730Lbs Which is grose weight.
Legally with two people i can take only 15 gallons fuel no luggage.

What is average weight off reb el on Murphys Amphibs.
Of course i will get 2000lb groos aproved later.

Does above information sound correct or am i missing something.

Regards Alvin R776

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

Yes, that is very light, should be quite a performer with the new engine. Weren't you tempted to go for the 0360 clone, given a just a few more pounds and not too many more bucks? That's what I am thinking with mine.

It's amazing how Rebel weights vary, though. One of the guys here was 1100 pounds on wheels with his (and that's a Rebel not an Elite), and still with just an 0320. Of course, he has to have multiple radios, and everything you can think of in his panel and elsewhere. Now that he is floats, it is costing him though, as I have flown with him.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:49 am
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Hi Walter on wheels I'm 867lbs. That's with an 0-290D warp drive
prop and
die spring gear. I'm hoping with my new engine and a prince prop
that I'll
lose a few pounds but more likely it'll be up a little bit.

At 06:39 AM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote:
1130, Drew? What was your empty weight on wheels? Mine might be
close to
1200 minus all my equipment, but no where near that. And I
thought I had a
light Rebel back on wheels at 925 pounds (Warp prop and bungee
gear), and as
low as 908 when minus some equipment on my initial weighing.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Sounds heavy for straight floats to me. On amphibs my empty
weight came in
at 1130lbs.

At 10:43 PM 4/27/2006 -0400, you wrote:
I was gonna point that out Walter but you beat me to it. You
must have cut
your firewall back did you Alvin? + put battery way in back or
something to
come up with that aft a C of G. Non-moved firewall machines are
generally>>9.5 to 11.5 inch range empty. Even the Elite we are
working on in the
hanger
is 11.8 inches. What you have posted for an empty C of G is
further back
than nose light 912 Rebels come out at.

The weight itself is not out of line if it was on 1800 amphibs,
but I would
have thought the Lotus floats would have come out MUCH lighter
than a set
of
MAM 1800 amphibs. My airplane and most Rebels on 1800 amphibs
come in from
about 1185 to 1250 lbs depending on paint and interior finish level.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

your c of g
so
wheels?>>What
window>>sill?
is 1250
Alvin
160hp,prince
grose weight.
luggage.>>>
--
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

Of course I was tempted by the 0-360 clone. It's pretty much the same price
as the 0-320 to buy but with the 0-320 I'll be able to recycle my mount,
exhaust, baffles and no changes to the cowl I hope. Also the inspectors at
TC really tried to talk me out of it if it wasn't factory approved. I'm
also not sure that the tail feathers would stand up to the extra power over
the long term. We fly differently too probably the highest alpine lake I'll
ever get to fly into will still only be 1000'ASL

At 08:47 AM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote:

Yes, that is very light, should be quite a performer with the new engine.

Weren't you tempted to go for the 0360 clone, given a just a few more
pounds and not too many more bucks? That's what I am thinking with mine.

It's amazing how Rebel weights vary, though. One of the guys here was 1100

pounds on wheels with his (and that's a Rebel not an Elite), and still with
just an 0320. Of course, he has to have multiple radios, and everything you
can think of in his panel and elsewhere. Now that he is floats, it is
costing him though, as I have flown with him.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:49 am
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Hi Walter on wheels I'm 867lbs. That's with an 0-290D warp drive
prop and
die spring gear. I'm hoping with my new engine and a prince prop
that I'll
lose a few pounds but more likely it'll be up a little bit.

At 06:39 AM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote:
1130, Drew? What was your empty weight on wheels? Mine might be
close to
1200 minus all my equipment, but no where near that. And I
thought I had a
light Rebel back on wheels at 925 pounds (Warp prop and bungee
gear), and as
low as 908 when minus some equipment on my initial weighing.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Sounds heavy for straight floats to me. On amphibs my empty
weight came in
at 1130lbs.

At 10:43 PM 4/27/2006 -0400, you wrote:
must have cut
something to
generally>>9.5 to 11.5 inch range empty. Even the Elite we are
working on in the
hanger
further back
but I would
than a set
of
come in from
your c of g
wheels?>>What
window>>sill?
is 1250
160hp,prince
grose weight.
luggage.>>>
--
--
--
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

You mean you're not coming out here on one of Bob's Rambles? I know what you mean, though, the 0320 should be plenty for what you need. But if you can get more hp for the same weight and price, why not. Don't know about the tail, as on floats, I would think it should never endure the maneuvers that I might do on wheels, and don't see why the extra hp should hurt. Since there are a few 0360 Rebels now, will have to see if they discover any tail fatigue areas.

I thought the 0320 and 0360 used the same mounts, so would have thought your 0290 would be OK too, if it works with an 0320.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:29 am
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Of course I was tempted by the 0-360 clone. It's pretty much the
same price
as the 0-320 to buy but with the 0-320 I'll be able to recycle my
mount,exhaust, baffles and no changes to the cowl I hope. Also the
inspectors at
TC really tried to talk me out of it if it wasn't factory
approved. I'm
also not sure that the tail feathers would stand up to the extra
power over
the long term. We fly differently too probably the highest alpine
lake I'll
ever get to fly into will still only be 1000'ASL

At 08:47 AM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote:
Yes, that is very light, should be quite a performer with the new
engine.Weren't you tempted to go for the 0360 clone, given a just
a few more
pounds and not too many more bucks? That's what I am thinking with
mine.>
It's amazing how Rebel weights vary, though. One of the guys here
was 1100
pounds on wheels with his (and that's a Rebel not an Elite), and
still with
just an 0320. Of course, he has to have multiple radios, and
everything you
can think of in his panel and elsewhere. Now that he is floats, it is
costing him though, as I have flown with him.
Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:49 am
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Hi Walter on wheels I'm 867lbs. That's with an 0-290D warp
drive
prop and
die spring gear. I'm hoping with my new engine and a prince
prop
that I'll
lose a few pounds but more likely it'll be up a little bit.

At 06:39 AM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote:
be
close to thought I had a gear), and as
Drew>> >Dalgleish
weight came in must have cut
or
something to
are
generally>>9.5 to 11.5 inch range empty. Even the Elite we are
working on in the further back
amphibs,
but I would
lighter
than a set come in from
level.>> >>
get
your c of g
on
wheels?>>What
top
window>>sill?
0320
is 1250 grose weight. luggage.>>>
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

I suspect Drew was alluding to tail feather fatigue vs tail cone damage of
any kind. Prop wash force and the extra buffet it can produce compared to
what the design was for an 80HP airplane originally.

Super Cubs (PA-18) have this problem......all was sweet fat and happy with
150/160 HP machines and when some went 180HP tail feather failures started
happening.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "WALTER KLATT" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

You mean you're not coming out here on one of Bob's Rambles? I know what

you mean, though, the 0320 should be plenty for what you need. But if you
can get more hp for the same weight and price, why not. Don't know about the
tail, as on floats, I would think it should never endure the maneuvers that
I might do on wheels, and don't see why the extra hp should hurt. Since
there are a few 0360 Rebels now, will have to see if they discover any tail
fatigue areas.

I thought the 0320 and 0360 used the same mounts, so would have thought

your 0290 would be OK too, if it works with an 0320.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:29 am
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Of course I was tempted by the 0-360 clone. It's pretty much the
same price
as the 0-320 to buy but with the 0-320 I'll be able to recycle my
mount,exhaust, baffles and no changes to the cowl I hope. Also the
inspectors at
TC really tried to talk me out of it if it wasn't factory
approved. I'm
also not sure that the tail feathers would stand up to the extra
power over
the long term. We fly differently too probably the highest alpine
lake I'll
ever get to fly into will still only be 1000'ASL

At 08:47 AM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote:
Yes, that is very light, should be quite a performer with the new
engine.Weren't you tempted to go for the 0360 clone, given a just
a few more
pounds and not too many more bucks? That's what I am thinking with
mine.>
It's amazing how Rebel weights vary, though. One of the guys here
was 1100
pounds on wheels with his (and that's a Rebel not an Elite), and
still with
just an 0320. Of course, he has to have multiple radios, and
everything you
can think of in his panel and elsewhere. Now that he is floats, it is
costing him though, as I have flown with him.
Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:49 am
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

drive
prop
be
Drew>> >Dalgleish
or
are
amphibs,
lighter
level.>> >>
get
on
top
0320
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

Yes, and that is what I meant too, by tail fatigue. I guess you only know after the problem starts. I seem to recall that's what they found with the SR/Moose when they first went with the big radial.

What about the engine mounts, though. I was hoping to get a conical mount 0360 built for me and use my current mounts. I have decided that I prefer conical mounts over dynafocal, and specifically mine with its thrust line.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:21 pm
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

I suspect Drew was alluding to tail feather fatigue vs tail cone
damage of
any kind. Prop wash force and the extra buffet it can produce
compared to
what the design was for an 80HP airplane originally.

Super Cubs (PA-18) have this problem......all was sweet fat and
happy with
150/160 HP machines and when some went 180HP tail feather failures
startedhappening.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "WALTER KLATT" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

You mean you're not coming out here on one of Bob's Rambles? I
know what
you mean, though, the 0320 should be plenty for what you need. But
if you
can get more hp for the same weight and price, why not. Don't know
about the
tail, as on floats, I would think it should never endure the
maneuvers that
I might do on wheels, and don't see why the extra hp should hurt.
Sincethere are a few 0360 Rebels now, will have to see if they
discover any tail
fatigue areas.
I thought the 0320 and 0360 used the same mounts, so would have
thoughtyour 0290 would be OK too, if it works with an 0320.
Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:29 am
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Of course I was tempted by the 0-360 clone. It's pretty much the
same price
as the 0-320 to buy but with the 0-320 I'll be able to recycle my
mount,exhaust, baffles and no changes to the cowl I hope. Also the
inspectors at
TC really tried to talk me out of it if it wasn't factory
approved. I'm
also not sure that the tail feathers would stand up to the extra
power over
the long term. We fly differently too probably the highest alpine
lake I'll
ever get to fly into will still only be 1000'ASL

At 08:47 AM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote: engine.Weren't you tempted to go for the 0360 clone, given a just
a few more
pounds and not too many more bucks? That's what I am thinking with
mine.> was 1100
pounds on wheels with his (and that's a Rebel not an Elite), and
still with
just an 0320. Of course, he has to have multiple radios, and
everything you
can think of in his panel and elsewhere. Now that he is
floats, it is
costing him though, as I have flown with him. drive prop be
Behalf Of
Drew>> >Dalgleish or are amphibs, lighter level.>> >> get on top 0320
Behalf Of
rebel with
something.> > >> >>>
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

Yeah that's what I meant all right. I have no idea if it will be an issue
or not but I'm not interested in being the one to find out. On my plane if
I fly with the windows open I get a strong buffetting on the tail when I
bring the power back tp idle. It's kinda weird and shakes the whole plane
so I just try to remember that the window has to be closed for landings.
You're probably right about the mount being the same I wasn't sure. My
engine is all ECI components except the case had to come from superior to
get a conical mount.

At 03:51 PM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote:

Yes, and that is what I meant too, by tail fatigue. I guess you only know

after the problem starts. I seem to recall that's what they found with the
SR/Moose when they first went with the big radial.

What about the engine mounts, though. I was hoping to get a conical mount

0360 built for me and use my current mounts. I have decided that I prefer
conical mounts over dynafocal, and specifically mine with its thrust line.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:21 pm
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

I suspect Drew was alluding to tail feather fatigue vs tail cone
damage of
any kind. Prop wash force and the extra buffet it can produce
compared to
what the design was for an 80HP airplane originally.

Super Cubs (PA-18) have this problem......all was sweet fat and
happy with
150/160 HP machines and when some went 180HP tail feather failures
startedhappening.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "WALTER KLATT" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

You mean you're not coming out here on one of Bob's Rambles? I
know what
you mean, though, the 0320 should be plenty for what you need. But
if you
can get more hp for the same weight and price, why not. Don't know
about the
tail, as on floats, I would think it should never endure the
maneuvers that
I might do on wheels, and don't see why the extra hp should hurt.
Sincethere are a few 0360 Rebels now, will have to see if they
discover any tail
fatigue areas.
I thought the 0320 and 0360 used the same mounts, so would have
thoughtyour 0290 would be OK too, if it works with an 0320.
Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:29 am
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

floats, it is
Behalf Of
Behalf Of
rebel with
something.> > >> >>>
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am**

My 0320 Rebel 1800 amphib empty weight is 1200 lb., was 950 on wheels (spring gear). C of G is 9.85 no firewall cut back and battery in the tail. C of G didn't change with amphibs. Deck angle is 4 or 4 1/2 degrees.

Bruce G

-----Original Message-----

From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Sent: Apr 28, 2006 10:49 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Hi Walter on wheels I'm 867lbs. That's with an 0-290D warp drive prop and
die spring gear. I'm hoping with my new engine and a prince prop that I'll
lose a few pounds but more likely it'll be up a little bit.

At 06:39 AM 4/28/2006 -0700, you wrote:
1130, Drew? What was your empty weight on wheels? Mine might be close to
1200 minus all my equipment, but no where near that. And I thought I had a
light Rebel back on wheels at 925 pounds (Warp prop and bungee gear), and as
low as 908 when minus some equipment on my initial weighing.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

Sounds heavy for straight floats to me. On amphibs my empty weight came in
at 1130lbs.

At 10:43 PM 4/27/2006 -0400, you wrote:
I was gonna point that out Walter but you beat me to it. You must have cut
your firewall back did you Alvin? + put battery way in back or something to
come up with that aft a C of G. Non-moved firewall machines are generally
9.5 to 11.5 inch range empty. Even the Elite we are working on in the
hanger
is 11.8 inches. What you have posted for an empty C of G is further back
than nose light 912 Rebels come out at.

The weight itself is not out of line if it was on 1800 amphibs, but I would
have thought the Lotus floats would have come out MUCH lighter than a set
of
MAM 1800 amphibs. My airplane and most Rebels on 1800 amphibs come in from
about 1185 to 1250 lbs depending on paint and interior finish level.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Weight & Balance

so What sill? Alvin
160hp,prince

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