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[rebel-builders] Moose: Tail update...new wrinkle in FUS-422

https://www.murphybuilders.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6267

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[rebel-builders] Moose: Tail update...new wrinkle in FUS-422

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am
by Wayne G. O'Shea
Like toe in and toe out on main gear....the pivot angle nose up or nose down
will never be agreed upon. I prefer it to "trail" ..IE..nose of the pivot
lower than the back just like you have. Nose up makes for twitchy ground
handling... as as soon as it starts to turn it wants to pass itself ass over
tea kettle.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 11:20 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose: Tail update...new wrinkle in FUS-422

I installed the new stinger and related bulkhead improvements last fall in
my Moose as noted here:

http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/Tail/TailUpgrade.html

I now have a wrinkle on either side of the tail wrap, FUS-422, caused, I
believe, by me trying to turn the plane and the tailwheel not immediately
unlocking and swiveling. I posted three pictures of these wrinkles in S/M
107 Fuselage. You can also see the pictures here
http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/Tail/T ... tml#fus422 on my
webpage.
There was a lot of discussion at that time about the castor angle on the
swivel, and whether having a positive or negative angle improved ground
handling. My swivel currently angles down toward the front, which, I
believe, is not appropriate. I had a discussion with Darryl Murphy about
this and he agreed that the swivel should angle up; just the opposite of
my
current tailwheel swivel angle. [As an aside, Darryl has sent me a new
prototype stinger that is totally straight. I will be installing and
testing this soon--within the next two weeks I hope.]

I hope that installing a new stinger and having a proper castor (angle) on
the swivel will improve ground handling and reduce stress on FUS-422.
I'll
be keeping an eye on these wrinkles to insure they don't get worse.
FUS-422
is already pretty thick stock; I don't think having it thicker is the
right
way to go. Nor do I think that adding a small reinforcing "hat" on each
side is appropriate. My sense is that we just have to get the right
swivel
angle and this problem won't happen with your moose.

Maybe I should just put it on floats and be done with these tail issues
<grin>.

Ted Waltman




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[rebel-builders] Moose: Tail update...new wrinkle in FUS-422

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am
by rickhm
Interesting... It appears we have a bit of an issue here. Regardless of nose up/nose down, the load is causing the skin to buckle. The weakest point is now where the buckle exists. So how does one prevent this I ask myself. It could be in part due to the floating nature between the stinger and the ball. Some structural re-enforcement that transfers the load from the ball into a stiffer member and forward into the airframe comes to mind. Other thoughts?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Like toe in and toe out on main gear....the pivot angle nose up or nose down
will never be agreed upon. I prefer it to "trail" ..IE..nose of the pivot
lower than the back just like you have. Nose up makes for twitchy ground
handling... as as soon as it starts to turn it wants to pass itself ass over
tea kettle.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 11:20 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose: Tail update...new wrinkle in FUS-422

I installed the new stinger and related bulkhead improvements last fall in
my Moose as noted here:

http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/Tail/TailUpgrade.html

I now have a wrinkle on either side of the tail wrap, FUS-422, caused, I
believe, by me trying to turn the plane and the tailwheel not immediately
unlocking and swiveling. I posted three pictures of these wrinkles in S/M
107 Fuselage. You can also see the pictures here
http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/Tail/T ... tml#fus422 on my
webpage.
There was a lot of discussion at that time about the castor angle on the
swivel, and whether having a positive or negative angle improved ground
handling. My swivel currently angles down toward the front, which, I
believe, is not appropriate. I had a discussion with Darryl Murphy about
this and he agreed that the swivel should angle up; just the opposite of
my
current tailwheel swivel angle. [As an aside, Darryl has sent me a new
prototype stinger that is totally straight. I will be installing and
testing this soon--within the next two weeks I hope.]

I hope that installing a new stinger and having a proper castor (angle) on
the swivel will improve ground handling and reduce stress on FUS-422.
I'll
be keeping an eye on these wrinkles to insure they don't get worse.
FUS-422
is already pretty thick stock; I don't think having it thicker is the
right
way to go. Nor do I think that adding a small reinforcing "hat" on each
side is appropriate. My sense is that we just have to get the right
swivel
angle and this problem won't happen with your moose.

Maybe I should just put it on floats and be done with these tail issues
.

Ted Waltman




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[rebel-builders] Moose: Tail update...new wrinkle in FUS-422

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am
by Ted Waltman
Another thought is that I have a prototype design whereby I have a FUS-1049
(see link below) whereas the "final" design that Murphy is now shipping
involves a 2nd FUS-344 in place of the Fus-1049. The thinking there is that
the 2nd FUS-344 is full-length, thereby adding an important extra bit of
stiffness to the aft end.

Apparently the demonstrator Moose that Murphy is now flying has this 2nd
FUS-344 with 25 landings--and no problems yet.

I'll probably take the tailwrap off and put a bit of small "hat" in the
sections that are buckling on FUS-422.

Link to FUS diagram: http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/Tail/TailUpgrade.html
(see diagram at bottom with text "CAD rear view with FUS #'s")

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
rickhm@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 1:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose: Tail update...new wrinkle in FUS-422

Interesting... It appears we have a bit of an issue here. Regardless of
nose up/nose down, the load is causing the skin to buckle. The weakest
point is now where the buckle exists. So how does one prevent this I ask
myself. It could be in part due to the floating nature between the stinger
and the ball. Some structural re-enforcement that transfers the load from
the ball into a stiffer member and forward into the airframe comes to mind.
Other thoughts?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Like toe in and toe out on main gear....the pivot angle nose up or
nose down will never be agreed upon. I prefer it to "trail" ..IE..nose
of the pivot lower than the back just like you have. Nose up makes for
twitchy ground handling... as as soon as it starts to turn it wants to
pass itself ass over tea kettle.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 11:20 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose: Tail update...new wrinkle in FUS-422

I installed the new stinger and related bulkhead improvements last fall
in
my Moose as noted here:

http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/Tail/TailUpgrade.html

I now have a wrinkle on either side of the tail wrap, FUS-422, caused, I
believe, by me trying to turn the plane and the tailwheel not
immediately
unlocking and swiveling. I posted three pictures of these wrinkles in
S/M
107 Fuselage. You can also see the pictures here
http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/Tail/T ... tml#fus422 on my
webpage.
There was a lot of discussion at that time about the castor angle on the
swivel, and whether having a positive or negative angle improved ground
handling. My swivel currently angles down toward the front, which, I
believe, is not appropriate. I had a discussion with Darryl Murphy about
this and he agreed that the swivel should angle up; just the opposite of
my
current tailwheel swivel angle. [As an aside, Darryl has sent me a new
prototype stinger that is totally straight. I will be installing and
testing this soon--within the next two weeks I hope.]

I hope that installing a new stinger and having a proper castor (angle)
on
the swivel will improve ground handling and reduce stress on FUS-422.
I'll
be keeping an eye on these wrinkles to insure they don't get worse.
FUS-422
is already pretty thick stock; I don't think having it thicker is the
right
way to go. Nor do I think that adding a small reinforcing "hat" on each
side is appropriate. My sense is that we just have to get the right
swivel
angle and this problem won't happen with your moose.

Maybe I should just put it on floats and be done with these tail issues
.

Ted Waltman




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