The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:39 am**

FWIW,

I'm building my Rebel for LSA but I wondered about eventual resale to
someone who wants the higher gross so I asked the EAA and the FAA at Sun N
Fun and of course got two different answers. The guys at EAA insist that you
can't up the weight later but the FAA said its no problem. I specifically
asked about upping the weight with (re-engine) and without physical changes
and the FAA was emphatic that its just paperwork either way. Will the next
Fed you ask give a different answer? Who knows.

Allen Poulsen
786R

P.S. Enjoyed meeting and talking with you Ralph. Bob, sorry I didn't get to
thank you personally for the beer. and I promise to drink more next year.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:33 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

Bob,
The LSA specs do not require any special resistration. All that is
required is that the aircraft meet the LSA specs. It can be amateur built
or certified. If it is an SLSA (factory completed) there has to be an
acceptance by the FAA that it complies with the ASTM standards. Not sure
about the ELSA as that is an unattractive option at present to all
parties.

As far as I know, any Canadian amateur built that is properly registered
and can legally be imported to the USA and registered here can be flown by
a Sport Pilot as long as it meets the LSA specs.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:39 am**

Allen
That is my understanding also. I belive that would come under "major
changes" (21.39) and the owner is required to re-establish compliance with
(91.319) Phase II. I intend to register my Rebel as Experimental
but I hope to build it light enough so I can fly it under the LSA
regulations (if and when that time comes). I will also installing the float
fittings just incase the next owner wants to re-engine it and put it on
floats.

Charlie Eubanks
802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

FWIW,

I'm building my Rebel for LSA but I wondered about eventual resale to
someone who wants the higher gross so I asked the EAA and the FAA at Sun

N

Fun and of course got two different answers. The guys at EAA insist that

you

can't up the weight later but the FAA said its no problem. I specifically
asked about upping the weight with (re-engine) and without physical

changes

and the FAA was emphatic that its just paperwork either way. Will the next
Fed you ask give a different answer? Who knows.

Allen Poulsen
786R

P.S. Enjoyed meeting and talking with you Ralph. Bob, sorry I didn't get

to

thank you personally for the beer. and I promise to drink more next year.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:33 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

Bob,
The LSA specs do not require any special resistration. All that is
required is that the aircraft meet the LSA specs. It can be amateur

built

or certified. If it is an SLSA (factory completed) there has to be an
acceptance by the FAA that it complies with the ASTM standards. Not

sure

about the ELSA as that is an unattractive option at present to all
parties.

As far as I know, any Canadian amateur built that is properly registered
and can legally be imported to the USA and registered here can be flown

by

a Sport Pilot as long as it meets the LSA specs.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:39 am**

What happen to the comment here recently that says you can't register an
airplane model under LSA that had been built heavier than LSA in the past?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

FWIW,

I'm building my Rebel for LSA but I wondered about eventual resale to
someone who wants the higher gross so I asked the EAA and the FAA at Sun
N
Fun and of course got two different answers. The guys at EAA insist that
you
can't up the weight later but the FAA said its no problem. I specifically
asked about upping the weight with (re-engine) and without physical
changes
and the FAA was emphatic that its just paperwork either way. Will the next
Fed you ask give a different answer? Who knows.

Allen Poulsen
786R

P.S. Enjoyed meeting and talking with you Ralph. Bob, sorry I didn't get
to
thank you personally for the beer. and I promise to drink more next year.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:33 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

Bob,
The LSA specs do not require any special resistration. All that is
required is that the aircraft meet the LSA specs. It can be amateur
built
or certified. If it is an SLSA (factory completed) there has to be an
acceptance by the FAA that it complies with the ASTM standards. Not sure
about the ELSA as that is an unattractive option at present to all
parties.

As far as I know, any Canadian amateur built that is properly registered
and can legally be imported to the USA and registered here can be flown
by
a Sport Pilot as long as it meets the LSA specs.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:39 am**

Mike,

I made (or at least seconded) the comment to which you refer, and it's
still valid. I haven't seen anything in the flow here that counters it.

By this one reported experience from Allen, there may be
disagreement/confusion (somewhere) about whether you can _increase_ an
LSA-built plane's weight, at which point it's no longer an LSA. My
understanding on that point matches the reported FAA position, i.e., you
can revise upward, though you'd no longer have an LSA.

Ron

Mike Betti wrote:

What happen to the comment here recently that says you can't register an
airplane model under LSA that had been built heavier than LSA in the past?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

FWIW,

I'm building my Rebel for LSA but I wondered about eventual resale to
someone who wants the higher gross so I asked the EAA and the FAA at Sun
N
Fun and of course got two different answers. The guys at EAA insist that
you
can't up the weight later but the FAA said its no problem. I specifically
asked about upping the weight with (re-engine) and without physical
changes
and the FAA was emphatic that its just paperwork either way. Will the next
Fed you ask give a different answer? Who knows.

Allen Poulsen
786R

P.S. Enjoyed meeting and talking with you Ralph. Bob, sorry I didn't get
to
thank you personally for the beer. and I promise to drink more next year.

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:39 am**

Mike,

Any Experimental can be revised under the previous and still current
amateur built rules. No experimental or certified aircraft can have
specs lowered to comply with sport pilot rules. The way it was
explained to me is to prevent "upgraded" Aircoupes (i.e. C/D's)and
such from being reverse engineered to comply with sport pilot rules.

I picked the Rebel specifically because it has a roomy interior and
offered huge safety margins in Sport Pilot along with the potential
to legally haul a whole lot more if properly re-papered. Looking at
every SLSA and qualifying experimental at Oshkosh didn't change my
mind though a couple of prototypes looked cool; one bright red
spermatozoa shaped plane had an interior like a Buick, must have weighed a ton.

John... 369R

At 08:19 PM 04/13/06, you wrote:

What happen to the comment here recently that says you can't register an
airplane model under LSA that had been built heavier than LSA in the past?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

FWIW,

I'm building my Rebel for LSA but I wondered about eventual resale to
someone who wants the higher gross so I asked the EAA and the FAA at Sun
N
Fun and of course got two different answers. The guys at EAA insist that
you
can't up the weight later but the FAA said its no problem. I specifically
asked about upping the weight with (re-engine) and without physical
changes
and the FAA was emphatic that its just paperwork either way. Will the next
Fed you ask give a different answer? Who knows.

Allen Poulsen
786R

P.S. Enjoyed meeting and talking with you Ralph. Bob, sorry I didn't get
to
thank you personally for the beer. and I promise to drink more next year.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:33 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

Bob,
The LSA specs do not require any special resistration. All that is
required is that the aircraft meet the LSA specs. It can be amateur
built
or certified. If it is an SLSA (factory completed) there has to be an
acceptance by the FAA that it complies with the ASTM standards. Not sure
about the ELSA as that is an unattractive option at present to all
parties.

As far as I know, any Canadian amateur built that is properly registered
and can legally be imported to the USA and registered here can be flown
by
a Sport Pilot as long as it meets the LSA specs.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:39 am**

Mike,

I think the confusion might be that under amateur built rules each airplane
is unique even though others have built the same kit. 100 guys can license
their Rebels at 1650 but I can come along with a physically identical
airplane and declare it to have a gross weight of 1320. As the manufacturer
I determine this number. As Bob says, the rules lack some logic but its
better than no LSA.

Allen
786R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

What happen to the comment here recently that says you can't register an
airplane model under LSA that had been built heavier than LSA in the past?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

FWIW,

I'm building my Rebel for LSA but I wondered about eventual resale to
someone who wants the higher gross so I asked the EAA and the FAA at Sun
N
Fun and of course got two different answers. The guys at EAA insist that
you
can't up the weight later but the FAA said its no problem. I specifically
asked about upping the weight with (re-engine) and without physical
changes
and the FAA was emphatic that its just paperwork either way. Will the
next
Fed you ask give a different answer? Who knows.

Allen Poulsen
786R

P.S. Enjoyed meeting and talking with you Ralph. Bob, sorry I didn't get
to
thank you personally for the beer. and I promise to drink more next year.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:33 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft

Bob,
The LSA specs do not require any special resistration. All that is
required is that the aircraft meet the LSA specs. It can be amateur
built
or certified. If it is an SLSA (factory completed) there has to be an
acceptance by the FAA that it complies with the ASTM standards. Not
sure
about the ELSA as that is an unattractive option at present to all
parties.

As far as I know, any Canadian amateur built that is properly registered
and can legally be imported to the USA and registered here can be flown
by
a Sport Pilot as long as it meets the LSA specs.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:39 am**

Yes, and No, you can never predict what the Feds will say, but I think that
as the builder you could make any modifications you like, have a DAR sign off
again and fly off the required hours on the "NEW Improved dash-2 version"
and be on your way! ... Add another wing and make it a bipolar disorder, add
a third engine, move the tail to the back, or whatever.
On 4/13/2006 9:36 AM, apoulsen@comcast.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> FWIW,
->
-> I'm building my Rebel for LSA but I wondered about eventual resale to
-> someone who wants the higher gross so I asked the EAA and the FAA at
Sun N
-> Fun and of course got two different answers. The guys at EAA insist that
you
-> can't up the weight later but the FAA said its no problem. I specifically
-> asked about upping the weight with (re-engine) and without physical
changes
-> and the FAA was emphatic that its just paperwork either way. Will the
next
-> Fed you ask give a different answer? Who knows.
->
-> Allen Poulsen
-> 786R
->
-> P.S. Enjoyed meeting and talking with you Ralph. Bob, sorry I didn't get to
-> thank you personally for the beer. and I promise to drink more next year.
->
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:33 PM
-> Subject: [rebel-builders] USA LSA aircraft
->
->
-> > Bob,
-> > The LSA specs do not require any special resistration. All that is
-> > required is that the aircraft meet the LSA specs. It can be amateur
built
-> > or certified. If it is an SLSA (factory completed) there has to be an
-> > acceptance by the FAA that it complies with the ASTM standards. Not
sure
-> > about the ELSA as that is an unattractive option at present to all
-> > parties.
-> >
-> > As far as I know, any Canadian amateur built that is properly registered
-> > and can legally be imported to the USA and registered here can be flown
by
-> > a Sport Pilot as long as it meets the LSA specs.
-> > Ralph Baker
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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