The Murphy Builders Site

At 08:24 PM 4/6/2006 -0400, you wrote:

Ready to do venting.I have installed the standard crossover as per

manuel.Was advised by a rebel builder to drill a 1/8 hole just below the
fuel cap in each filler pipe facing firward,has been installed on two other
reb els and works fine.One difference the other two rebels have fuel
pumps,mine do not.Has anyone tried this,do you guys think this will be
ok.Trying to avoide ram air pipes.

Regards; alvin adams
R 776

I flew my rebel for a couple years with vent holes in the back of the
filler pipe as per murphy instructions at that time. The problem was that
when flying with low fuel any sloshing that let a gulp of air into the fuel
line would take a looong time to purge itself. Very unnerving at low
altitude. Also if flying one tank dry it would take quite a while for the
engine to restart after switching tanks. I took the advice of Wayne and
others on this list and added one ram air vent through the wing root
fairing and all my fuel flow problems have been solved.




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As you know Drew...first thing I do to every Rebel I refurbish is stick
rivets in the filler neck holes drilled by builders per the manual to plug
them up and add tank to tank cross over with Ram air in a wing root fairing.
I have never had a fuel flow issue on ANY Rebel that has left the
yard...even ones where the builders took the fuel line forward over the door
post. I've flown circuits in every configuration and darn near upside down
and never had an engine cough for fuel.

Everyone is welcome to play with their experimental....but I gotta ask why F
with fate when you know there are proven systems flying flawlessly for over
a decade!?

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

At 08:24 PM 4/6/2006 -0400, you wrote:

Ready to do venting.I have installed the standard crossover as per

manuel.Was advised by a rebel builder to drill a 1/8 hole just below the
fuel cap in each filler pipe facing firward,has been installed on two

other

reb els and works fine.One difference the other two rebels have fuel
pumps,mine do not.Has anyone tried this,do you guys think this will be
ok.Trying to avoide ram air pipes.

Regards; alvin adams
R 776

I flew my rebel for a couple years with vent holes in the back of the
filler pipe as per murphy instructions at that time. The problem was that
when flying with low fuel any sloshing that let a gulp of air into the

fuel

line would take a looong time to purge itself. Very unnerving at low
altitude. Also if flying one tank dry it would take quite a while for the
engine to restart after switching tanks. I took the advice of Wayne and
others on this list and added one ram air vent through the wing root
fairing and all my fuel flow problems have been solved.




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Does anyone have any photos of the system Wayne is using that you could post
, may make it easier for everyone to see,,, and understand,,,Could be easier
to do that way. Sometimes what a person reads and visualizes is not always
what the same thing the other person is explaining to them ...Thanks guys
Dale Fultz SR-033
----- Original Message -----




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Since we're on this subject, just one more caution about possible engine coughing due to air in the fuel lines. It's happened to me, so this is first hand experience.

If your fuel system has the shut-off valves at the top by the tank outlets, you need to be sure to use the correct sequence of opening and closing the two valves if you run one tank dry while in flight.

If you are running on one tank, and it runs dry, you must first open the other tank, before closing the empty one. If you close the empty one first, and then open the good one, your engine will quit. The reason is that air is trapped in the lines, and can't escape. If you keep the empty one open until you are sure the fuel is feeding from the good tank, the air will escape up to the empty tank, and then you can close it after that.

You can easily test this on the ground, but don't try it in flight. When on the ground, close both tanks, then drain all the fuel from the lines out the gascolator. It will take a while to drain, as the air slowly bubbles up to replace the fuel in the lines, so give it time. Then open one tank only and start your engine. After a few minutes running it will quit. Give it a minute, and then it will start again, but continue to quit because the air can't purge itself up the new feeding tank, and there is not enough gravity feed to push it through to the carb. Open the empty tank, and it will stay running.

Again, this is only a potential problem with the fuel valves up top. If your valves are at the bottom by your seat somewhere, you should always have enough prime to push any air through to the carb, no matter which sequence you use.

We've talked about this a few times before on this list, but thought it worth mentioning again, for those planning their fuel system, and those flying with the valves up top.

As for the fuel venting, I just have a ram air tube in each cap facing forward, with the old rear filler drilled holes plugged as Wayne mentioned, and then a "plastic" tube through the cabin at the top joining the two tanks, with tees to my sight gauges. Never any problems with this set-up. I also don't like the possibility of any insects plugging my vents, so two is a good. There was another plane in a hangar near mine that didn't have his pitot tube covered, and sure enough he found out the hard way after take-off one time, so I know it happens.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Date: Friday, April 7, 2006 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

As you know Drew...first thing I do to every Rebel I refurbish is
stickrivets in the filler neck holes drilled by builders per the
manual to plug
them up and add tank to tank cross over with Ram air in a wing
root fairing.
I have never had a fuel flow issue on ANY Rebel that has left the
yard...even ones where the builders took the fuel line forward
over the door
post. I've flown circuits in every configuration and darn near
upside down
and never had an engine cough for fuel.

Everyone is welcome to play with their experimental....but I gotta
ask why F
with fate when you know there are proven systems flying flawlessly
for over
a decade!?

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

At 08:24 PM 4/6/2006 -0400, you wrote:

Ready to do venting.I have installed the standard crossover as per

manuel.Was advised by a rebel builder to drill a 1/8 hole just

below the

fuel cap in each filler pipe facing firward,has been installed

on two
other

reb els and works fine.One difference the other two rebels have

fuel> pumps,mine do not.Has anyone tried this,do you guys think
this will be

ok.Trying to avoide ram air pipes.

Regards; alvin adams
R 776

I flew my rebel for a couple years with vent holes in the back

of the

filler pipe as per murphy instructions at that time. The problem

was that

when flying with low fuel any sloshing that let a gulp of air

into the
fuel

line would take a looong time to purge itself. Very unnerving at low
altitude. Also if flying one tank dry it would take quite a

while for the

engine to restart after switching tanks. I took the advice of

Wayne and

others on this list and added one ram air vent through the wing root
fairing and all my fuel flow problems have been solved.




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Hey Dale,
I talked to Wes about his site gauges he is using, sounds like a good setup.
I invited him to the Rebel Builders group and am sending some info. He tells
me there are pics of his moose on Metal Crafters website from the
Philipines, I haven't searched it yet but sounds like his fuel system with
the industrial site gauges is there. He was very helpfull on the phone. His
venting won't help me on my project but the rest of it sounds like a good
start.
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz17086@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

Does anyone have any photos of the system Wayne is using that you could
post
, may make it easier for everyone to see,,, and understand,,,Could be
easier
to do that way. Sometimes what a person reads and visualizes is not always
what the same thing the other person is explaining to them ...Thanks guys
Dale Fultz SR-033
----- Original Message -----




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Actually Mike when I looked up the prices in MSC they are actually more
reasonable then I had thought they would be.. As far as the vents go ---
before Robin had his medical problems were last discussing the vents and he
tells me all factory aircraft and new manuals will have the cap or a J tube
mounted into the fuel cell and NO cross venting through the cabin.. So maybe
you want to look into it... Just what I was told by Robin...Let me know if I
can be of any other help Dale Were you at the last Rebel builders
meeting ???? I was there....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

Hey Dale,
I talked to Wes about his site gauges he is using, sounds like a good
setup.
I invited him to the Rebel Builders group and am sending some info. He
tells
me there are pics of his moose on Metal Crafters website from the
Philipines, I haven't searched it yet but sounds like his fuel system with
the industrial site gauges is there. He was very helpfull on the phone.
His
venting won't help me on my project but the rest of it sounds like a good
start.
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz17086@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

Does anyone have any photos of the system Wayne is using that you could
post
, may make it easier for everyone to see,,, and understand,,,Could be
easier
to do that way. Sometimes what a person reads and visualizes is not
always
what the same thing the other person is explaining to them ...Thanks guys
Dale Fultz SR-033
----- Original Message -----




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Right I forgot to mention that I blocked the holes in the filler neck.


At 01:57 PM 4/7/2006 -0400, you wrote:

As you know Drew...first thing I do to every Rebel I refurbish is stick
rivets in the filler neck holes drilled by builders per the manual to plug
them up and add tank to tank cross over with Ram air in a wing root fairing.
I have never had a fuel flow issue on ANY Rebel that has left the
yard...even ones where the builders took the fuel line forward over the door
post. I've flown circuits in every configuration and darn near upside down
and never had an engine cough for fuel.

Everyone is welcome to play with their experimental....but I gotta ask why F
with fate when you know there are proven systems flying flawlessly for over
a decade!?

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

At 08:24 PM 4/6/2006 -0400, you wrote:

Ready to do venting.I have installed the standard crossover as per

manuel.Was advised by a rebel builder to drill a 1/8 hole just below the
fuel cap in each filler pipe facing firward,has been installed on two

other

reb els and works fine.One difference the other two rebels have fuel
pumps,mine do not.Has anyone tried this,do you guys think this will be
ok.Trying to avoide ram air pipes.

Regards; alvin adams
R 776

I flew my rebel for a couple years with vent holes in the back of the
filler pipe as per murphy instructions at that time. The problem was that
when flying with low fuel any sloshing that let a gulp of air into the

fuel

line would take a looong time to purge itself. Very unnerving at low
altitude. Also if flying one tank dry it would take quite a while for the
engine to restart after switching tanks. I took the advice of Wayne and
others on this list and added one ram air vent through the wing root
fairing and all my fuel flow problems have been solved.




-----------------------------------------------------------------
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I haven't made any builders meetings. With my wings finished, I don't see
any practical way of changing vent design. I will probably go with the J
tubes in the wing root fairings. Wes gave me the part no. and company that
made those sight glasses, it appears they are located in my neck of the
woods but I don't know if they will sell direct, (Lube Devices pt. no.
G607-07-A-3-2)
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz17086@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

Actually Mike when I looked up the prices in MSC they are actually more
reasonable then I had thought they would be.. As far as the vents go ---
before Robin had his medical problems were last discussing the vents and
he
tells me all factory aircraft and new manuals will have the cap or a J
tube
mounted into the fuel cell and NO cross venting through the cabin.. So
maybe
you want to look into it... Just what I was told by Robin...Let me know if
I
can be of any other help Dale Were you at the last Rebel builders
meeting ???? I was there....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

Hey Dale,
I talked to Wes about his site gauges he is using, sounds like a good
setup.
I invited him to the Rebel Builders group and am sending some info. He
tells
me there are pics of his moose on Metal Crafters website from the
Philipines, I haven't searched it yet but sounds like his fuel system
with
the industrial site gauges is there. He was very helpfull on the phone.
His
venting won't help me on my project but the rest of it sounds like a good
start.
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz17086@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel crossover venting

Does anyone have any photos of the system Wayne is using that you could
post
, may make it easier for everyone to see,,, and understand,,,Could be
easier
to do that way. Sometimes what a person reads and visualizes is not
always
what the same thing the other person is explaining to them ...Thanks
guys
Dale Fultz SR-033
----- Original Message -----




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