The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

Ben,
If you do it that way make sure you have the bottom exterior corner wraps
clecod securely on to hold the bulkheads in alignment. I haven't even
riveted the bulkhead quarter sections together, so while working on the
interior floor I only have half the bulkhead to get in my way. However, when
fitting and drilling the side channels I think I had the roof and sides on,
and top corner wraps on one side to hold everything in alignment. This lets
you work through the space where the top corner wrap would be on one side,
then put that one on and take the other one off. I think this is only a
concern when fitting the side channels, because they help establish the rake
angle of the bulkhead side. Once the side channels are in you can remove the
fuse sides and just cleco the side channels to the corner wraps and you have
your bulkhead alignment for working on the inner floor. You get the idea.
Just be careful because everything you drill effects alignment of the whole
fuselage. Mine worked out well though. Yesterday I finished
drilling/clecoing the inner floor with roof, sides, and upper corner wraps
removed, then put the whole thing together, and alignment is perfect. A
trick for drilling the inner corner wraps where they join the bulkhead
radius; drill #40 holes in the bulkheads, drill inner wrap along channels
side and bottom and cleco. Remove outer corner wrap and drill through
bulkheads. Cleco outer wrap back on and drill inner wrap to#30. Works great.
Jesse

From: bransom@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel baggage floor thickness
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:27:44 -0900

Adding my thanks in here too as I am at the point of drilling and riviting
on
the sides,top and bottom. Will wait for sure on the riveting now after
this
advice.
-Ben/496R

Thanks for the moral support Walter,
Yes, it is a real pain. Like you said though, I haven't riveted anything
yet, so I have removed the sides and top, allowing me to build the floor
with my feet standing comfortably on my workshop floor. I can't imagine
what
a huge pain it would be to do all that work while laying on a board.
Jesse

From: WALTER KLATT <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel baggage floor thickness
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:26:50 -0800

Hey, Jesse, although it's been a long, long time, but I still remember
well
messing with all those ST31's and brackets, and curved panels when
doing
the fuselage floor. It definitely tested my patience, as I recall, and
took
a lot more time than I expected, so you've got my sympathies. What
helped,
though, was not riveting the fuse sides and top, so that I could more
easily access everything for fitting. It took a lot of clecos, but that
sure helped. Good luck, and sounds like you're moving right along
though.
Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:26 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel baggage floor thickness

forward
close
floor.
the
up

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

I read ahead through MAM again last night to figure out my plan and possible
gotchas. Couple more questions...
1. I would think it fine (preferable) to go ahead and rivet the floor skin on
early. At least this ties this together and allows the cone to sit flat on the
table while doing everything else. Comments?
2. I think Ken mentions screwing the cable hat cover, but isn't it supposed
to be riveted? I haven't looked at channel spacing yet, but if putting in two
center ones, would it be better to have them close enf for the top hat cover
to rivet/screw to, or a little wider to spread out the stiffening, especially with
the hat cover providing additional stiffness in the center anyway?
3. Jesse, what more did you need to do to route cables under the floor
panel? At this point I think I may not mess with that improvement, but
thought I'd at least ask.
Thanks again all.
-Ben

Ben,
If you do it that way make sure you have the bottom exterior corner wraps
clecod securely on to hold the bulkheads in alignment. I haven't even
riveted the bulkhead quarter sections together, so while working on the
interior floor I only have half the bulkhead to get in my way. However,

when

fitting and drilling the side channels I think I had the roof and sides on,
and top corner wraps on one side to hold everything in alignment. This lets
you work through the space where the top corner wrap would be on one

side,

then put that one on and take the other one off. I think this is only a
concern when fitting the side channels, because they help establish the

rake

angle of the bulkhead side. Once the side channels are in you can remove

the

fuse sides and just cleco the side channels to the corner wraps and you

have

your bulkhead alignment for working on the inner floor. You get the idea.
Just be careful because everything you drill effects alignment of the whole
fuselage. Mine worked out well though. Yesterday I finished
drilling/clecoing the inner floor with roof, sides, and upper corner wraps
removed, then put the whole thing together, and alignment is perfect. A
trick for drilling the inner corner wraps where they join the bulkhead
radius; drill #40 holes in the bulkheads, drill inner wrap along channels
side and bottom and cleco. Remove outer corner wrap and drill through
bulkheads. Cleco outer wrap back on and drill inner wrap to#30. Works

great.

Jesse

From: bransom@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel baggage floor thickness
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:27:44 -0900

Adding my thanks in here too as I am at the point of drilling and riviting
on
the sides,top and bottom. Will wait for sure on the riveting now after
this
advice.
-Ben/496R

Thanks for the moral support Walter,
Yes, it is a real pain. Like you said though, I haven't riveted anything
yet, so I have removed the sides and top, allowing me to build the floor
with my feet standing comfortably on my workshop floor. I can't imagine
what
a huge pain it would be to do all that work while laying on a board.
Jesse

well
doing
took
helped,
though.
forward

side

close
floor.

pieces

at

the
up

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

If you are in Canada....no to riveting the rear floor down before preclose
inspection is complete..and if you are talking about the front
floor...definitely not until you have determined all wiring and fuel runs
first.

No DO NOT rivet that cable cover down. You will surely regret it no matter
how much you think you'll never need back in there. It's not intended to be
structural...just to keep stuff off/out of the cablesa nd guides.

----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel baggage floor thickness/construction

I read ahead through MAM again last night to figure out my plan and

possible

gotchas. Couple more questions...
1. I would think it fine (preferable) to go ahead and rivet the floor

skin on

early. At least this ties this together and allows the cone to sit flat

on the

table while doing everything else. Comments?
2. I think Ken mentions screwing the cable hat cover, but isn't it

supposed

to be riveted? I haven't looked at channel spacing yet, but if putting in

two

center ones, would it be better to have them close enf for the top hat

cover

to rivet/screw to, or a little wider to spread out the stiffening,

especially with

the hat cover providing additional stiffness in the center anyway?
3. Jesse, what more did you need to do to route cables under the floor
panel? At this point I think I may not mess with that improvement, but
thought I'd at least ask.
Thanks again all.
-Ben

Ben,
If you do it that way make sure you have the bottom exterior corner

wraps

clecod securely on to hold the bulkheads in alignment. I haven't even
riveted the bulkhead quarter sections together, so while working on the
interior floor I only have half the bulkhead to get in my way. However,
when
fitting and drilling the side channels I think I had the roof and sides

on,

and top corner wraps on one side to hold everything in alignment. This

lets

you work through the space where the top corner wrap would be on one
side,
then put that one on and take the other one off. I think this is only a
concern when fitting the side channels, because they help establish the
rake
angle of the bulkhead side. Once the side channels are in you can remove
the
fuse sides and just cleco the side channels to the corner wraps and you
have
your bulkhead alignment for working on the inner floor. You get the

idea.

Just be careful because everything you drill effects alignment of the

whole

fuselage. Mine worked out well though. Yesterday I finished
drilling/clecoing the inner floor with roof, sides, and upper corner

wraps

removed, then put the whole thing together, and alignment is perfect. A
trick for drilling the inner corner wraps where they join the bulkhead
radius; drill #40 holes in the bulkheads, drill inner wrap along

channels

side and bottom and cleco. Remove outer corner wrap and drill through
bulkheads. Cleco outer wrap back on and drill inner wrap to#30. Works
great.
Jesse

From: bransom@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel baggage floor thickness
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:27:44 -0900

Adding my thanks in here too as I am at the point of drilling and

riviting

on
the sides,top and bottom. Will wait for sure on the riveting now after
this
advice.
-Ben/496R

anything

floor

imagine

what

remember

well doing

and

took helped,

more

that

though.

I

under-floor

forward
side

to

thickness.

close floor.
pieces
at
the

ST-31's

up

where

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

Ben,
For the cable runs through the aft fuselage floor it was not much different
than standard. Like I said, I have two center channels about 4" apart. I
will have a removable cover for that 4" tunnel. Then just drill holes in the
bulkheads for the cable fairleads. I am planning to use short sections of
1/4" Nylaflow tubing, or maybe nylon blocks. The elevator cables come off
the control column 1" left of center, so I started the cable holes at
bulkhead A 1" left of center and worked them back to center by the time they
get to bulkhead D where the pulleys are. Of course the pulleys are mounted
lower in the brackets so they are at the same level as the cables. I am also
planning to run the rudder cables through the tunnel. They will either come
off the inner pedals and reverse through pulleys, or come off the outer
pedals as per standard and be routed through pulleys along the front of the
forward LG carrythrough and then under the floor.
Jesse

From: bransom@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel baggage floor thickness/construction
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 09:23:25 -0900

I read ahead through MAM again last night to figure out my plan and
possible
gotchas. Couple more questions...
1. I would think it fine (preferable) to go ahead and rivet the floor skin
on
early. At least this ties this together and allows the cone to sit flat on
the
table while doing everything else. Comments?
2. I think Ken mentions screwing the cable hat cover, but isn't it
supposed
to be riveted? I haven't looked at channel spacing yet, but if putting in
two
center ones, would it be better to have them close enf for the top hat
cover
to rivet/screw to, or a little wider to spread out the stiffening,
especially with
the hat cover providing additional stiffness in the center anyway?
3. Jesse, what more did you need to do to route cables under the floor
panel? At this point I think I may not mess with that improvement, but
thought I'd at least ask.
Thanks again all.
-Ben

Ben,
If you do it that way make sure you have the bottom exterior corner
wraps
clecod securely on to hold the bulkheads in alignment. I haven't even
riveted the bulkhead quarter sections together, so while working on the
interior floor I only have half the bulkhead to get in my way. However,
when
fitting and drilling the side channels I think I had the roof and sides
on,
and top corner wraps on one side to hold everything in alignment. This
lets
you work through the space where the top corner wrap would be on one
side,
then put that one on and take the other one off. I think this is only a
concern when fitting the side channels, because they help establish the
rake
angle of the bulkhead side. Once the side channels are in you can remove
the
fuse sides and just cleco the side channels to the corner wraps and you
have
your bulkhead alignment for working on the inner floor. You get the
idea.
Just be careful because everything you drill effects alignment of the
whole
fuselage. Mine worked out well though. Yesterday I finished
drilling/clecoing the inner floor with roof, sides, and upper corner
wraps
removed, then put the whole thing together, and alignment is perfect. A
trick for drilling the inner corner wraps where they join the bulkhead
radius; drill #40 holes in the bulkheads, drill inner wrap along
channels
side and bottom and cleco. Remove outer corner wrap and drill through
bulkheads. Cleco outer wrap back on and drill inner wrap to#30. Works
great.
Jesse

From: bransom@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel baggage floor thickness
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:27:44 -0900

Adding my thanks in here too as I am at the point of drilling and
riviting
on
the sides,top and bottom. Will wait for sure on the riveting now after
this
advice.
-Ben/496R

anything
floor
imagine
what
remember
well doing
and
took helped,
more
that
though.
I
under-floor
forward
side
to
thickness.
close floor.
pieces
at
the
ST-31's
up
where
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:38 am**

Yep, I guess it shoulda been obvious that covering the cable permanently is
not acceptable. As per my question about riveting the floor skin early, I
really meant the outside bottom skin of the tail cone (Fus-23). i.e., leaving
the sides, corners, top unriveted (clecoed) but the Fus-23 skin riveted on
while doing the ST-31 floor and side channels.

Unfortunately I think I'll need to leave this all sit for a week while i figure out
my *@)! taxes and take care of some extra work issues. What's the matter
with my priorities?!
-Ben

On 4/1/2006 9:29 AM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

If you are in Canada....no to riveting the rear floor down before preclose
inspection is complete..and if you are talking about the front
floor...definitely not until you have determined all wiring and fuel runs
first.

No DO NOT rivet that cable cover down. You will surely regret it no matter
how much you think you'll never need back in there. It's not intended to be
structural...just to keep stuff off/out of the cablesa nd guides.

----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel baggage floor thickness/construction

I read ahead through MAM again last night to figure out my plan and
possible
gotchas. Couple more questions...
1. I would think it fine (preferable) to go ahead and rivet the floor
skin on
early. At least this ties this together and allows the cone to sit flat
on the
table while doing everything else. Comments?
2. I think Ken mentions screwing the cable hat cover, but isn't it
supposed
to be riveted? I haven't looked at channel spacing yet, but if putting in
two
center ones, would it be better to have them close enf for the top hat
cover
to rivet/screw to, or a little wider to spread out the stiffening,
especially with
the hat cover providing additional stiffness in the center anyway?
3. Jesse, what more did you need to do to route cables under the floor
panel? At this point I think I may not mess with that improvement, but
thought I'd at least ask.
Thanks again all.
-Ben

Ben,
If you do it that way make sure you have the bottom exterior corner
wraps
clecod securely on to hold the bulkheads in alignment. I haven't even
riveted the bulkhead quarter sections together, so while working on the
interior floor I only have half the bulkhead to get in my way. However,
when

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